Re: [arch-dev-public] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

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Thomas Bächler

15 Apr 2013 15 Apr '13

12:59 p.m.

Am 13.04.2013 17:55, schrieb William Giokas:

All,

With the inclusion of the debug option in pacman 4.1.0, I think it makes sense to do something with this in the official repositories. I've sifted through some bug reports asking for inclusion of the debug symbols in a separate package or repository officially for testing purposes. With [extra] and [community] approaching 1.5 and 2 megabytes respectively, I think that adding debug symbols directly into these repositories would be a bad idea as it would probably add ~50% to those databases, and I've already seen some people complain about the sizes.

This doesn't belong to the pacman mailing list (I'm forwarding to arch-dev-public and arch-general), but I'll summarize what will probably happen: Separate debug repositories won't happen - we can't even put split packages into different repositories, so it is unlikely that we'll support separate debug repositories - and I don't see the need. Even if the db sizes double, we are still way under 5MB per db, which is a reasonable size considering our users' bandwidth nowadays. Allan stated that he'll add a glibc-debug package to core, and it is also likely that KDE will get debug packages in extra (they have been requested a few times). Some links: https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2013-March/024736.ht... https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2013-March/024740.ht...

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Allan McRae

15 Apr 15 Apr

1:11 p.m.

New subject: [arch-dev-public] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

On 15/04/13 18:59, Thomas Bächler wrote:

...

Am 13.04.2013 17:55, schrieb William Giokas:

...
All,

With the inclusion of the debug option in pacman 4.1.0, I think it makes sense to do something with this in the official repositories. I've sifted through some bug reports asking for inclusion of the debug symbols in a separate package or repository officially for testing purposes. With [extra] and [community] approaching 1.5 and 2 megabytes respectively, I think that adding debug symbols directly into these repositories would be a bad idea as it would probably add ~50% to those databases, and I've already seen some people complain about the sizes.

This doesn't belong to the pacman mailing list (I'm forwarding to arch-dev-public and arch-general), but I'll summarize what will probably happen: Separate debug repositories won't happen - we can't even put split packages into different repositories, so it is unlikely that we'll support separate debug repositories - and I don't see the need. Even if the db sizes double, we are still way under 5MB per db, which is a reasonable size considering our users' bandwidth nowadays.

Allan stated that he'll add a glibc-debug package to core, and it is also likely that KDE will get debug packages in extra (they have been requested a few times).

Some links:

https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2013-March/024736.ht... https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2013-March/024740.ht...

DB size is not the only consideration. For example -Ss output will be "polluted". Allan

Lukas Jirkovsky

1:46 p.m.

New subject: [arch-dev-public] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

On 15 April 2013 09:59, Thomas Bächler wrote:

...

Separate debug repositories won't happen - we can't even put split packages into different repositories

Fair enough.

...

Even if the db sizes double, we are still way under 5MB per db, which is a reasonable size considering our users' bandwidth nowadays.

It's not only the size of the database. I can see the problem with the size of repositories if someone keeps a mirror to save bandwidth if they have lots of computers, but they don't need debug packages. On 15 April 2013 10:11, Allan McRae wrote:

...

DB size is not the only consideration. For example -Ss output will be "polluted".

Maybe it could be filtered on the pacman side, ie. add some switch that would enable/disable showing of -debug packages. Lukas

Allan McRae

1:52 p.m.

New subject: [arch-dev-public] [arch-general] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

On 15/04/13 19:46, Lukas Jirkovsky wrote:

...

On 15 April 2013 09:59, Thomas Bächler wrote:

...
Separate debug repositories won't happen - we can't even put split packages into different repositories

Fair enough.

...
Even if the db sizes double, we are still way under 5MB per db, which is a reasonable size considering our users' bandwidth nowadays.

It's not only the size of the database. I can see the problem with the size of repositories if someone keeps a mirror to save bandwidth if they have lots of computers, but they don't need debug packages.

On 15 April 2013 10:11, Allan McRae wrote:

...
DB size is not the only consideration. For example -Ss output will be "polluted".

Maybe it could be filtered on the pacman side, ie. add some switch that would enable/disable showing of -debug packages.

Not keen on that... The issues that prevent split packages going across repos are entirely different to what is required to keep a separate debug package repo. In fact, I will provide the needed patches for a separate [debug] and [community-debug] repo if that is what is decided to happen. Allan

Rashif Ray Rahman

5:50 p.m.

New subject: [arch-dev-public] [arch-general] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

On 15 April 2013 17:52, Allan McRae wrote:

...

In fact, I will provide the needed patches for a separate [debug] and [community-debug] repo if that is what is decided to happen.

I personally think that is the only way to go about it. I wouldn't want -debug packages to take up search output, but I'd want them to exist somewhere accessible. An immediate possibility is to simply duplicate buildscripts to the debug repos and push only debug packages there. Of course, that'd be a manual process, and stuff won't be in sync/integrated, but it does mean that it's not anything impossible given our current packaging infrastructure. -- GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Tom Gundersen

6 p.m.

New subject: [arch-dev-public] [arch-general] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

On 15 Apr 2013 15:50, "Rashif Ray Rahman" wrote:

...

On 15 April 2013 17:52, Allan McRae wrote:

...
In fact, I will provide the needed patches for a separate [debug] and [community-debug] repo if that is what is decided to happen.

I personally think that is the only way to go about it. I wouldn't want -debug packages to take up search output, but I'd want them to exist somewhere accessible.

Couldn't pacman be fixed to only show debug packages in search results when you ask for it with a switch? Maybe something similar could be done for language packages?

...

An immediate possibility is to simply duplicate buildscripts to the debug repos and push only debug packages there.

Of course, that'd be a manual process, and stuff won't be in sync/integrated, but it does mean that it's not anything impossible given our current packaging infrastructure.

-- GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Lukas Jirkovsky

6:53 p.m.

New subject: [arch-dev-public] [arch-general] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

On 15 April 2013 10:52, Allan McRae wrote:

...

In fact, I will provide the needed patches for a separate [debug] and [community-debug] repo if that is what is decided to happen.

You have my full support when it comes to having debug packages in a separate repository. On 15 April 2013 15:00, Tom Gundersen wrote:

...

Couldn't pacman be fixed to only show debug packages in search results when you ask for it with a switch? Maybe something similar could be done for language packages?

A simple alias/wrapper using grep on the pacman output would work too ;-)

Tom Gundersen

7:05 p.m.

New subject: [arch-dev-public] [arch-general] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Lukas Jirkovsky wrote:

...

On 15 April 2013 10:52, Allan McRae wrote:

...
In fact, I will provide the needed patches for a separate [debug] and [community-debug] repo if that is what is decided to happen.

You have my full support when it comes to having debug packages in a separate repository.

On 15 April 2013 15:00, Tom Gundersen wrote:

...
Couldn't pacman be fixed to only show debug packages in search results when you ask for it with a switch? Maybe something similar could be done for language packages?

A simple alias/wrapper using grep on the pacman output would work too ;-)

Yeah, so why make a separate repo? What's the problem with keeping debug packages in the normal repos? -t

Dan McGee

7:19 p.m.

New subject: [arch-dev-public] [arch-general] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Tom Gundersen wrote:

...

On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Lukas Jirkovsky wrote:

...
On 15 April 2013 10:52, Allan McRae wrote:

...
In fact, I will provide the needed patches for a separate [debug] and [community-debug] repo if that is what is decided to happen.

You have my full support when it comes to having debug packages in a separate repository.

On 15 April 2013 15:00, Tom Gundersen wrote:

...
Couldn't pacman be fixed to only show debug packages in search results when you ask for it with a switch? Maybe something similar could be done for language packages?

A simple alias/wrapper using grep on the pacman output would work too ;-)

Yeah, so why make a separate repo? What's the problem with keeping debug packages in the normal repos?

Our database files are rather large at this point, and for those that will never install debug packages, having to download extra stuff every time we update even one package in the database starts to get a bit crazy. Adding PGP signatures to our databases made these files grow quite a bit; I'd be hesitant to double the size of them again. -Dan $ ls -lh /var/lib/pacman/sync/ total 3.8M -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 52K Apr 14 13:17 community-testing.db -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.9M Apr 15 06:26 community.db -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 106K Apr 15 05:15 core.db -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1.5M Apr 15 05:09 extra.db -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.8K Apr 13 14:09 multilib-testing.db -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 105K Apr 13 18:59 multilib.db -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 126K Apr 15 06:37 testing.db

Andrea Scarpino

1:57 p.m.

New subject: [arch-dev-public] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

On Monday 15 April 2013 10:59:30 Thomas Bächler wrote:

...

Allan stated that he'll add a glibc-debug package to core, and it is also likely that KDE will get debug packages in extra (they have been requested a few times).

I can confirm the rumors about KDE: I want to put the qt, kdelibs & co -debug packages (at least). I don't see the pacman output as an issue here. There is already a '-debug' suffix in the package name and maybe we could add it in the description too e.g. '(Debug)'. -- Andrea Arch Linux Developer

Allan McRae

2:01 p.m.

New subject: [arch-dev-public] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

On 15/04/13 19:57, Andrea Scarpino wrote:

...

On Monday 15 April 2013 10:59:30 Thomas Bächler wrote:

...
Allan stated that he'll add a glibc-debug package to core, and it is also likely that KDE will get debug packages in extra (they have been requested a few times).

I can confirm the rumors about KDE: I want to put the qt, kdelibs & co -debug packages (at least).

I don't see the pacman output as an issue here. There is already a '-debug' suffix in the package name and maybe we could add it in the description too e.g. '(Debug)'.

FYI: pkgdesc="Detached debugging symbols for $pkgname"

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Allan McRae
Andrea Scarpino
Dan McGee
Lukas Jirkovsky
Rashif Ray Rahman
Thomas Bächler
Tom Gundersen

Re: [arch-dev-public] [pacman-dev] debug package repositories

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