[arch-dev-public] Cleanup/Orphans - a BIG warning!
Am Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:17:17 -0500 schrieb "Aaron Griffin" <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com>:
== Pending Tasks, Short Term ==
* New Round of Package Cleanup
Let's try and get this "complete" this week. I'd like to get at least 2 or 3 of us together with Eric to go through these packages and start moving them to community or unsupported.
We have an internal list for this here: https://www.archlinux.org/wiki/Repo%20Cleanup/
Please add candidates if you find them.
Eric, when is a good time for you?
I will help out with the cleanup. We had asked all developers to readopt their packages after the repo shuffle. We have a very bad situation right now! Still 916 packages orphaned. 6 developers listed on the dev website have 0 packages. Some other maintain only a few packages. Look what is orphaned: apache, bind, cvs, mono, python, freetype1/2, nspr/nss, pango, gimp, mutt, cdrkit, several desktops, bash, bzip2, gcc-libs, kernel26 and many more! We were talking about our intention to have more than one maintainer per package. But we do not act like that. Having so important packages unmaintained means nobody follows the projects mailing lists. No quick updates, bug fixes, no security fixes... So get your ass up and adopt packages you want to keep in our distribution! DEADLINE for adopting packages should be this coming weekend. Then the cleanup will start. 2 all devs: Isn't that more important than telling something about how much alcohol we drink? -Andy
On 10/2/07, Andreas Radke <a.radke@arcor.de> wrote:
Am Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:17:17 -0500 schrieb "Aaron Griffin" <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com>:
== Pending Tasks, Short Term ==
* New Round of Package Cleanup
Let's try and get this "complete" this week. I'd like to get at least 2 or 3 of us together with Eric to go through these packages and start moving them to community or unsupported.
We have an internal list for this here: https://www.archlinux.org/wiki/Repo%20Cleanup/
Please add candidates if you find them.
Eric, when is a good time for you?
I will help out with the cleanup.
We had asked all developers to readopt their packages after the repo shuffle. We have a very bad situation right now! Still 916 packages orphaned. 6 developers listed on the dev website have 0 packages. Some other maintain only a few packages.
Look what is orphaned: apache, bind, cvs, mono, python, freetype1/2, nspr/nss, pango, gimp, mutt, cdrkit, several desktops, bash, bzip2, gcc-libs, kernel26 and many more!
We were talking about our intention to have more than one maintainer per package. But we do not act like that. Having so important packages unmaintained means nobody follows the projects mailing lists. No quick updates, bug fixes, no security fixes...
So get your ass up and adopt packages you want to keep in our distribution!
DEADLINE for adopting packages should be this coming weekend. Then the cleanup will start.
2 all devs: Isn't that more important than telling something about how much alcohol we drink?
Andy, Andy, Andy. Let's not get angry about this. See the thing is as follows: You asked us to do this, and disappeared. If you want people to do things, you can't act all silly like this. In addition (here comes the Big Hat) - the only people who should be mandating things are the "enablers" - we can't have everyone throwing out random mandates for things that were mentioned once and only once. That's how we get to the chaos we're in now. Here's the thing: orphan packages aren't a huge deal. There. I said it. This isn't critical. Nothing is burning, nothing is on fire, so calm down. Now, because Andy has been so lax in keeping up with what I kindly, and nicely asked him to, and responds in this manner, I have to step in here. See, Andy, I figured I could delegate work to you and you would handle this task like a manager should, but I guess it doesn't work that way. -------------------------------------------------- So. To summarize the email above: After the core repo move, we have a lot of orphan packages, and important ones. So, let's readopt them. I am giving everyone until tomorrow night to adopt what packages you _want_ - first come first serve. After that, I will go through all orphans, and determine if they are important. Then, I will post a list of what we need to maintain to this ML, and let people adopt them. On Friday, if they are not adopted, I will assign them as I see fit. ---------------------------------------- Now, please note. I am going to be sending a follow up email here. Andy mentioned that we have "6 developers with 0 packages", and I want to address this because it is something very very critical to us moving forward.
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On 10/2/07, Andreas Radke <a.radke@arcor.de> wrote:
Am Mon, 1 Oct 2007 17:17:17 -0500 schrieb "Aaron Griffin" <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com>:
== Pending Tasks, Short Term ==
* New Round of Package Cleanup
Let's try and get this "complete" this week. I'd like to get at least 2 or 3 of us together with Eric to go through these packages and start moving them to community or unsupported.
We have an internal list for this here: https://www.archlinux.org/wiki/Repo%20Cleanup/
Please add candidates if you find them.
Eric, when is a good time for you?
This upcoming week-end is the Canadian Thanksgiving so I won't be able to do any Arch related stuff. Otherwise, any evening this week will be OK. Catch me on IRC. Regarding the fate of the package to be removed from extra, they should only be moved to community repo if they are a dependency (or makedepends) of a package in community. If not, they should simply be moved to unsupported or deleted completely, whichever is best suited. It would be a bad idea to moved them in community if none of actual TU is interested in them. Maybe that's what you had in mind, but I just want to make this point clear.
--------------------------------------------------
So. To summarize the email above:
After the core repo move, we have a lot of orphan packages, and important ones.
So, let's readopt them.
I am giving everyone until tomorrow night to adopt what packages you _want_ - first come first serve.
After that, I will go through all orphans, and determine if they are important.
Then, I will post a list of what we need to maintain to this ML, and let people adopt them.
On Friday, if they are not adopted, I will assign them as I see fit.
----------------------------------------
Sounds good. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Hm. Your words are sounding more polite. True. But don't you get the same feeling that some of our developers lost their interest/time in maintaining packages? Some were even hired to do other jobs. Who else should do it? We had a decision to not give away the packaging process to the community. So we have too do it our best. I just don't want to fall back into the time when Jan, Tobias and me were doing the majority of packaging almost alone again. And now we have to take about two architectures. Let's spread it over all our shoulders. Let's improve our infrastructure step by step but don't forget our daily work of packaging. We have become famous for our good compromise of bleading edge and quality. We should try to keep this alive. We also have to find a way to maintain essential packages we cannot drop nobody wants to maintain. Any suggestion? One possible way it to force a dev to also maintain all dependencies for his packages. But what about the rest? Thoughts? Andy
Tuesday 02 October 2007, Andreas Radke wrote: | I just don't want to fall back into the time when Jan, Tobias and | me were doing the majority of packaging almost alone again. And | now we have to take about two architectures. Let's spread it over | all our shoulders. i have around 300 pkgs in extra, but most of them are not too complex to maintain. i was busy with other things, but i never stopped packaging! so you were never alone. we are a (in the meantime quite big) team of devs, so if one is busy for a year, others can ballance out. of course this does not mean that 3 need to do 90% of the work :) besides: why did you not tell from time to time? pass a line like: "today name1, name2 and me were updating 340 packages - it was lots of fun, but it would be cool that others join in" such messages from time to time would let others know what you do. and would also lead to more communication, and also more digesting things... not outbreaks of the kind: i'm doing everything! ;) i understand that officially, it looks quite bad having 900 pkgs orphaned... but that's just a temporary effect... they will be picked up by time (right guys? - do pick them up again! understand? being nasty before christmas is bad - the hogfather is watching *g*). the cleanup is easier, when pkgs are sorted and assigned, that i agree... but it is no 1st priority matter. the important thing is not to forget it! :) if anybody has the itch to really cleanup things in a hurry, please do not trow out things without at least consulting the person who is mentioned as Maintainer in the PKGBUILD... do make a list, but leave it for revision for at least one week, so that others may crosscheck it. moving things out of the repo and back in is unnecessary and in addition: it means also loosing the history! keep bothering us about the issue, but do not over-hurry with it, - D -- .·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´ ° ° ° ° ° ° ><((((º> ° ° ° ° ° <º)))>< <º)))><
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:40:58 -0500 "Aaron Griffin" <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com> wrote:
So, let's readopt them.
I am giving everyone until tomorrow night to adopt what packages you _want_ - first come first serve.
After that, I will go through all orphans, and determine if they are important.
Then, I will post a list of what we need to maintain to this ML, and let people adopt them.
On Friday, if they are not adopted, I will assign them as I see fit.
OK, I've just gone through my package list and picked up 18 of my deps that were orphaned. Other orphaned deps of mine, that I will pick up in two days from now unless somebody else does: sqlite3 sdl cairo flac libxml2 gd gdk-pixbuf libcap The reason I haven't adopted these is because I'm thinking if there's somebody with more experience packaging these, it'd be better off in their hands. Please adopt these if you know what you're doing with them. If not, I'll take that as a sign NOBODY knows what they're doing with them (heh) and take them under my wing. -- Travis
On 10/2/07, Travis Willard <travis@archlinux.org> wrote:
The reason I haven't adopted these is because I'm thinking if there's somebody with more experience packaging these, it'd be better off in their hands.
I think a lot of us are thinking this way, I know I am. And this might be some of the problem.
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 17:10:59 -0500 "Aaron Griffin" <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/2/07, Travis Willard <travis@archlinux.org> wrote:
The reason I haven't adopted these is because I'm thinking if there's somebody with more experience packaging these, it'd be better off in their hands.
I think a lot of us are thinking this way, I know I am. And this might be some of the problem.
Yeah, that occurred to me to, which is why I gave the two-days notice. If they're still free, I'll grab them, and any of their deps that are orphaned too.
Travis Willard wrote:
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 17:10:59 -0500 "Aaron Griffin" <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/2/07, Travis Willard <travis@archlinux.org> wrote:
The reason I haven't adopted these is because I'm thinking if there's somebody with more experience packaging these, it'd be better off in their hands. I think a lot of us are thinking this way, I know I am. And this might be some of the problem.
Yeah, that occurred to me to, which is why I gave the two-days notice. If they're still free, I'll grab them, and any of their deps that are orphaned too.
I've now done the same exercise with my stuff, and adopted most of my orphaned deps - would have been more, but Travis got there first. :) If I've picked anything that someone feels is "theirs", please let me know - I've no problem with giving up anything. A lot of them were dorphell's anyway, so I don't think that will be a problem. I've balked at a couple - libsasl and openssl, to be precise - but if nobody else wants them, I'll take them. T.
On Wed, 3 Oct 2007 00:01:24 -0400 Travis Willard <travis@archlinux.org> wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:40:58 -0500 "Aaron Griffin" <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com> wrote:
So, let's readopt them.
I am giving everyone until tomorrow night to adopt what packages you _want_ - first come first serve.
After that, I will go through all orphans, and determine if they are important.
Then, I will post a list of what we need to maintain to this ML, and let people adopt them.
On Friday, if they are not adopted, I will assign them as I see fit.
OK, I've just gone through my package list and picked up 18 of my deps that were orphaned.
Other orphaned deps of mine, that I will pick up in two days from now unless somebody else does:
sqlite3 sdl cairo flac libxml2 gd gdk-pixbuf libcap
Ok, the ones that weren't adpoted yet were flac, gd, gdk-pixbuf, and libcap. I've adopted them all. gd had dep fontconfig, which had dep freetype2, which were both orphaned. Who handles X stuff? Would this be included? In any case, I'm giving another couple of days for them to be adopted - if they're not grabbed by Tuesday (giving everyone time for thanksgiving, heh) I'll pick them up. gdk-pixbuf had dependency gtk orphaned. Same deal as above - JGC handles gnome stuff, is GTK something you want? I'll grab it Tuesday if it's still up for grabs. Again, here's my new list of stuff I'll grab by Tues: fontconfig freetype2 gtk -- Travis
participants (6)
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Aaron Griffin
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Andreas Radke
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Damir Perisa
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Eric Belanger
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Tom K
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Travis Willard