[arch-dev-public] Temporarily removed nvidia legacy driver
Just to let you know: I have removed the nvidia-173xx driver packages from [extra]. They wont work with current xorg-server anyway. Once nvidia releases a new driver these can be readded easily. Keeping a package that cannot work is kind of pointless. Greetings, Pierre -- Pierre Schmitz, https://users.archlinux.de/~pierre
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:54:40 +0100, Pierre Schmitz wrote:
Just to let you know: I have removed the nvidia-173xx driver packages from [extra]. They wont work with current xorg-server anyway. Once nvidia releases a new driver these can be readded easily. Keeping a package that cannot work is kind of pointless.
Greetings,
Pierre
I also had to remove the nvidia-96xx packages we still had. This means if you want to use the proprietary driver you'll need at least a Geforce 6. There is nothing we can do about this. Greetings, Pierre -- Pierre Schmitz, https://users.archlinux.de/~pierre
Am 14.04.2011 07:58, schrieb Pierre Schmitz:
Just to let you know: I have removed the nvidia-173xx driver packages from [extra]. They wont work with current xorg-server anyway. Once nvidia releases a new driver these can be readded easily. Keeping a package that cannot work is kind of pointless.
Greetings,
Pierre I also had to remove the nvidia-96xx packages we still had. This means if you want to use the proprietary driver you'll need at least a Geforce
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:54:40 +0100, Pierre Schmitz wrote: 6. There is nothing we can do about this.
Greetings,
Pierre
You should post this on the frontpage. I think that lots of users use those drivers and they will be surprised when it won't work after the update. Add a recommendation to use the nouveau-driver instead as long as there are no new driver from nvidia. Maybe some users stay with the nouveau driver after the switch. Daniel
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:05:55 +0200, Daniel Isenmann wrote:
Am 14.04.2011 07:58, schrieb Pierre Schmitz:
Just to let you know: I have removed the nvidia-173xx driver packages from [extra]. They wont work with current xorg-server anyway. Once nvidia releases a new driver these can be readded easily. Keeping a package that cannot work is kind of pointless.
Greetings,
Pierre I also had to remove the nvidia-96xx packages we still had. This means if you want to use the proprietary driver you'll need at least a Geforce
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:54:40 +0100, Pierre Schmitz wrote: 6. There is nothing we can do about this.
Greetings,
Pierre
You should post this on the frontpage. I think that lots of users use those drivers and they will be surprised when it won't work after the update. Add a recommendation to use the nouveau-driver instead as long as there are no new driver from nvidia. Maybe some users stay with the nouveau driver after the switch.
Daniel
Sure, would be a good idea if someone could do that. I cannot tell how useful nouveau is though. The probably only support newer cards, too. Especially when you want to have basic 3D support. -- Pierre Schmitz, https://users.archlinux.de/~pierre
[2011-04-14 08:04:09 +0100] Pierre Schmitz:
Sure, would be a good idea if someone could do that.
How about the following draft? Title: nvidia-173xx and nvidia-96xx removed from [extra] The nvidia-173xx and nvidia-96xx driver packages have been removed from our repositories as they are incompatible with newer xorg servers. This can only be fixed by an upstream update, which has not happened yet. For most video cards, the best alternative should be xf86-video-nouveau; xf86-video-nv and xf86-video-vesa are lower-grade alternatives. Simply install those packages and remove the old nvidia one(s); the xorg server will automatically pick the best one at startup. -- Gaetan
On 04/14/2011 11:16 AM, Gaetan Bisson wrote:
[2011-04-14 08:04:09 +0100] Pierre Schmitz:
Sure, would be a good idea if someone could do that.
How about the following draft?
Title: nvidia-173xx and nvidia-96xx removed from [extra]
The nvidia-173xx and nvidia-96xx driver packages have been removed from our repositories as they are incompatible with newer xorg servers. This can only be fixed by an upstream update, which has not happened yet.tha
For most video cards, the best alternative should be xf86-video-nouveau; xf86-video-nv and xf86-video-vesa are lower-grade alternatives. Simply install those packages and remove the old nvidia one(s); the xorg server will automatically pick the best one at startup.
nouveau is not picked automatically. maybe point them to the wiki -- Ionuț
Am 14.04.2011 11:21, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:
nouveau is not picked automatically.
What do you mean by that?
On 04/14/2011 12:32 PM, Thomas Bächler wrote:
Am 14.04.2011 11:21, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:
nouveau is not picked automatically.
What do you mean by that?
without a config file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ in which is specified the driver, xorg-server won't pick it, because is not in the xorg-server drivers list[1]. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/23319 -- Ionuț
Am 14.04.2011 11:38, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:
On 04/14/2011 12:32 PM, Thomas Bächler wrote:
Am 14.04.2011 11:21, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:
nouveau is not picked automatically.
What do you mean by that?
without a config file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ in which is specified the driver, xorg-server won't pick it, because is not in the xorg-server drivers list[1].
That problem could be easily solved in our nouveau package, just look at the nvidia-utils package. I don't understand why this isn't done.
On 04/14/2011 01:33 PM, Thomas Bächler wrote:
Am 14.04.2011 11:38, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:
On 04/14/2011 12:32 PM, Thomas Bächler wrote:
Am 14.04.2011 11:21, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:
nouveau is not picked automatically.
What do you mean by that?
without a config file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ in which is specified the driver, xorg-server won't pick it, because is not in the xorg-server drivers list[1].
That problem could be easily solved in our nouveau package, just look at the nvidia-utils package. I don't understand why this isn't done.
sure but Jan didn't want it. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/19879 i have 30-nouveau.conf and i can switch easily between nvidia and nouveau -- Ionuț
Am 14.04.2011 12:54, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:
That problem could be easily solved in our nouveau package, just look at the nvidia-utils package. I don't understand why this isn't done.
sure but Jan didn't want it. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/19879
i have 30-nouveau.conf and i can switch easily between nvidia and nouveau
His closing comments in the bug report are wrong, I think. I need to try, but if I understand this right, you can still install nouveau (with this file) and X will fall back to other drivers if nouveau fails.
On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 14:02 +0200, Thomas Bächler wrote:
Am 14.04.2011 12:54, schrieb Ionuț Bîru:
That problem could be easily solved in our nouveau package, just look at the nvidia-utils package. I don't understand why this isn't done.
sure but Jan didn't want it. https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/19879
i have 30-nouveau.conf and i can switch easily between nvidia and nouveau
His closing comments in the bug report are wrong, I think. I need to try, but if I understand this right, you can still install nouveau (with this file) and X will fall back to other drivers if nouveau fails.
No, once you configure a driver, it will be taken. If it fails, it will just throw an error. The 20-nvidia.conf file in nvidia-utils also forces the nvidia driver for all devices. I tried this with 1.9.x with a thinclient setup to pass the ShadowFB option to the intel driver. The Intel machines worked, the ATI machines didn't start X because the intel driver didn't work.
Am 14.04.2011 15:06, schrieb Jan de Groot:
His closing comments in the bug report are wrong, I think. I need to try, but if I understand this right, you can still install nouveau (with this file) and X will fall back to other drivers if nouveau fails.
No, once you configure a driver, it will be taken. If it fails, it will just throw an error. The 20-nvidia.conf file in nvidia-utils also forces the nvidia driver for all devices. I tried this with 1.9.x with a thinclient setup to pass the ShadowFB option to the intel driver. The Intel machines worked, the ATI machines didn't start X because the intel driver didn't work.
This situation is really crappy: 1) The list of default drivers to try is hardcoded into Xorg, not configurable. 2) Instead of trying multiple available device configuration sections, Xorg will take the first one available and fail if that doesn't work. So, if a new driver is added, it won't be supported out of the box in a clean way. IMO, this justifies patching the list inside the xorg-server package, adding nvidia and nouveau (in that order).
On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 15:32 +0200, Thomas Bächler wrote:
Am 14.04.2011 15:06, schrieb Jan de Groot:
His closing comments in the bug report are wrong, I think. I need to try, but if I understand this right, you can still install nouveau (with this file) and X will fall back to other drivers if nouveau fails.
No, once you configure a driver, it will be taken. If it fails, it will just throw an error. The 20-nvidia.conf file in nvidia-utils also forces the nvidia driver for all devices. I tried this with 1.9.x with a thinclient setup to pass the ShadowFB option to the intel driver. The Intel machines worked, the ATI machines didn't start X because the intel driver didn't work.
This situation is really crappy: 1) The list of default drivers to try is hardcoded into Xorg, not configurable. 2) Instead of trying multiple available device configuration sections, Xorg will take the first one available and fail if that doesn't work.
So, if a new driver is added, it won't be supported out of the box in a clean way. IMO, this justifies patching the list inside the xorg-server package, adding nvidia and nouveau (in that order).
The order doesn't matter, as you can't have both nvidia and nouveau installed at the same time due to -dri conflicts. BTW: as we have hybrid graphics these days, is that supported by the Nvidia driver, and if so, shouldn't we think of some other way to support xf86-video-intel + nvidia-utils on one system?
On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 15:50:34 +0200, Jan de Groot wrote:
On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 15:32 +0200, Thomas Bächler wrote:
Am 14.04.2011 15:06, schrieb Jan de Groot:
His closing comments in the bug report are wrong, I think. I need to try, but if I understand this right, you can still install nouveau (with this file) and X will fall back to other drivers if nouveau fails.
No, once you configure a driver, it will be taken. If it fails, it will just throw an error. The 20-nvidia.conf file in nvidia-utils also forces the nvidia driver for all devices. I tried this with 1.9.x with a thinclient setup to pass the ShadowFB option to the intel driver. The Intel machines worked, the ATI machines didn't start X because the intel driver didn't work.
This situation is really crappy: 1) The list of default drivers to try is hardcoded into Xorg, not configurable. 2) Instead of trying multiple available device configuration sections, Xorg will take the first one available and fail if that doesn't work.
So, if a new driver is added, it won't be supported out of the box in a clean way. IMO, this justifies patching the list inside the xorg-server package, adding nvidia and nouveau (in that order).
The order doesn't matter, as you can't have both nvidia and nouveau installed at the same time due to -dri conflicts.
BTW: as we have hybrid graphics these days, is that supported by the Nvidia driver, and if so, shouldn't we think of some other way to support xf86-video-intel + nvidia-utils on one system?
Is this Optimus? Afaik you cannot use these on Linux. -- Pierre Schmitz, https://users.archlinux.de/~pierre
[2011-04-14 12:21:33 +0300] Ionuț Bîru:
nouveau is not picked automatically. maybe point them to the wiki
Right. Here is an updated draft: Title: nvidia-173xx and nvidia-96xx removed from [extra] The nvidia-173xx and nvidia-96xx driver packages have been removed from our repositories as they are incompatible with newer xorg servers. This can only be fixed by an upstream update, which has not happened yet. For most video cards, the best alternative should be xf86-video-nouveau; see: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Nouveau As lower-grade options, you might also consider xf86-video-nv and xf86-video-vesa: simply remove the old nvidia driver(s), install these, and the xorg server will automatically pick the best at startup. -- Gaetan
[2011-04-14 11:42:21 +0200] Gaetan Bisson:
Title: nvidia-173xx and nvidia-96xx removed from [extra]
The nvidia-173xx and nvidia-96xx driver packages have been removed from our repositories as they are incompatible with newer xorg servers. This can only be fixed by an upstream update, which has not happened yet.
For most video cards, the best alternative should be xf86-video-nouveau; see: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Nouveau
As lower-grade options, you might also consider xf86-video-nv and xf86-video-vesa: simply remove the old nvidia driver(s), install these, and the xorg server will automatically pick the best at startup.
I'll post this tomorrow if nobody objects. -- Gaetan
On 2011/4/14 Pierre Schmitz
On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:54:40 +0100, Pierre Schmitz wrote:
Just to let you know: I have removed the nvidia-173xx driver packages from [extra]. They wont work with current xorg-server anyway. Once nvidia releases a new driver these can be readded easily. Keeping a package that cannot work is kind of pointless.
Greetings,
Pierre
I also had to remove the nvidia-96xx packages we still had. This means if you want to use the proprietary driver you'll need at least a Geforce 6. There is nothing we can do about this.
Couldn't we at least add a conflicts line with the new xserver for a while, so that upgrades are blocked for these users until they fix their system? What is the expected upgrade path? Rémy.
participants (7)
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Daniel Isenmann
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Gaetan Bisson
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Ionuț Bîru
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Jan de Groot
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Pierre Schmitz
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Rémy Oudompheng
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Thomas Bächler