[arch-dev-public] Clarity about initscripts and systemd status
Hi all, as systemd is now our default initsystem the current status of initscripts is a little vague. The problem is not the initscripts package itself but rc.d files and support in other packages. It is unrealistic to think we can support two different init systems. Testing on both systems is too much hassle and we already see packages that require systemd or are configured to use it by default. We never announced if and when using initscripts will get unsupported. Users don't know when they should migrate to systemd. I assume that initscripts based system will run into more and more issues over time; things will slowly fall apart. Ir will also be unnecessary hard for users to maintain an initscripts repo outside the official repos. Therefor we should define some dates when initscripts are no longer supported and rc.d (and maybe conf.d) scripts will be removed from packages. Random example: * Publish an announcement with the said dates and a link to a migration guide * Support for initscripts can be dropped e.g. end of December. After that packages may drop support; but not before. * rc.d scripts and other related files should be removed by end of January. This makes it easier for third party repos to provide a package containing all the rc scripts. Similar to what we had before systemd got officially supported. What do you think? Greetings, Pierre -- Pierre Schmitz, https://pierre-schmitz.com
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Pierre Schmitz <pierre@archlinux.de> wrote:
* Publish an announcement with the said dates and a link to a migration guide * Support for initscripts can be dropped e.g. end of December. After that packages may drop support; but not before. * rc.d scripts and other related files should be removed by end of January. This makes it easier for third party repos to provide a package containing all the rc scripts. Similar to what we had before systemd got officially supported.
What do you think?
I agree that we should make an announcement. My suggestion would be something along these lines: "As systemd is now the default init system, Arch Linux is receiving minimal testing on sysvinit/initscripts systems. Due to a lack of resources and interest, sysvinit/initscripts-specific bugs may now be closed as WONT FIX. We therefore strongly encourage all users to migrate to systemd as soon as possible: <link to guide>. For the time being, sysvinit/initscripts support will remain in the official repositories, unless otherwise stated. As of January 2013, sysvinit/initscripts support may be removed from individual packages without further notice." As to forcibly removing all the rc scripts by a certain date, I guess we could get back to that later once we see how things pan out? I'd be fine with doing it, but don't see the urgency. -t
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Tom Gundersen <teg@jklm.no> wrote:
"As systemd is now the default init system, Arch Linux is receiving minimal testing on sysvinit/initscripts systems. Due to a lack of resources and interest, sysvinit/initscripts-specific bugs may now be closed as WONT FIX.
We therefore strongly encourage all users to migrate to systemd as soon as possible: <link to guide>.
For the time being, sysvinit/initscripts support will remain in the official repositories, unless otherwise stated. As of January 2013, sysvinit/initscripts support may be removed from individual packages without further notice."
Unless there are any objections, I'll put this up soon so I can start closing bugs without feeling bad about it ;-) -t
Am Sun, 4 Nov 2012 14:52:31 +0100 schrieb Tom Gundersen <teg@jklm.no>:
Unless there are any objections, I'll put this up soon so I can start closing bugs without feeling bad about it ;-)
-t
+1 -Andy
As to forcibly removing all the rc scripts by a certain date, I guess we could get back to that later once we see how things pan out? I'd be fine with doing it, but don't see the urgency.
It would be great if maintainers who are going to drop the rc scripts from their package would notify me, so I can keep then in a rc-scripts package as discussed previously (similar to what was done with systemd) Lukas
Am 07.11.2012 08:59, schrieb Lukas Jirkovsky:
As to forcibly removing all the rc scripts by a certain date, I guess we could get back to that later once we see how things pan out? I'd be fine with doing it, but don't see the urgency.
It would be great if maintainers who are going to drop the rc scripts from their package would notify me, so I can keep then in a rc-scripts package as discussed previously (similar to what was done with systemd)
Lukas
Thomas suggested to have a git repo which would contain all those scripts. Everytime a TU or DEV removes a rc script he can commit it there. -- Pierre Schmitz, https://pierre-schmitz.com
Le 2012-11-08 10:03, Pierre Schmitz a écrit :
As to forcibly removing all the rc scripts by a certain date, I guess we could get back to that later once we see how things pan out? I'd be fine with doing it, but don't see the urgency. It would be great if maintainers who are going to drop the rc scripts from their package would notify me, so I can keep then in a rc-scripts package as discussed previously (similar to what was done with systemd)
Lukas Thomas suggested to have a git repo which would contain all those
Am 07.11.2012 08:59, schrieb Lukas Jirkovsky: scripts. Everytime a TU or DEV removes a rc script he can commit it there.
+1, good idea
On 8 November 2012 16:03, Pierre Schmitz <pierre@archlinux.de> wrote:
Am 07.11.2012 08:59, schrieb Lukas Jirkovsky:
It would be great if maintainers who are going to drop the rc scripts from their package would notify me, so I can keep then in a rc-scripts package as discussed previously (similar to what was done with systemd)
Lukas
Thomas suggested to have a git repo which would contain all those scripts. Everytime a TU or DEV removes a rc script he can commit it there.
-- Pierre Schmitz, https://pierre-schmitz.com
That sound like a good idea. +1 from me. Lukas
Good idea, +1. To find deleted files that ends with .rc: svn log -v | grep '^ *D.*/trunk/.*\.rc$' D /fail2ban/trunk/fail2ban.rc D /multipath-tools/trunk/multipathd.rc D /virtualbox/trunk/vbox-service.rc D /oidentd/trunk/oidentd.rc D /ufw/trunk/ufw.rc D /backuppc/trunk/backuppc-httpd.rc D /oss/trunk/oss.rc D /tor/trunk/tor.rc D /pulseaudio/trunk/pulseaudio.rc This does not catch every single deleted rc script, but may perhaps catch one or two that should have been submitted to the rc git repo, in the future, but weren't. -- Best regards, Alexander Rødseth xyproto / TU
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 5:54 PM, Lukas Jirkovsky <l.jirkovsky@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 November 2012 16:03, Pierre Schmitz <pierre@archlinux.de> wrote:
Am 07.11.2012 08:59, schrieb Lukas Jirkovsky:
It would be great if maintainers who are going to drop the rc scripts from their package would notify me, so I can keep then in a rc-scripts package as discussed previously (similar to what was done with systemd)
Lukas
Thomas suggested to have a git repo which would contain all those scripts. Everytime a TU or DEV removes a rc script he can commit it there.
Hello, I've cleaned all packages where I maintain rc scripts. Lukas J. has moved the legacy to a community[1] package[2]. Unless we decide otherwise rc scripts will be dropped when package will be updated / rebuilded. Users who has still not moved to systemd will probably suffer of this. So we can imagine solution to have a smoother transition. By example, patch initscripts to look at 2 places (etc/rc.d and usr/lib/initscripts) allowing a package providing all rc.d to avoid conflict with legacy packages. Cheers, [1] Is community package a good strategy for legagy initscripts? (an AUR package or a git in project.al.org would be better) [2] https://projects.archlinux.org/svntogit/community.git/tree/sysvinit-scripts/... -- Sébastien "Seblu" Luttringer https://www.seblu.net GPG: 0x2072D77A
Am 23.01.2013 20:15, schrieb Sébastien Luttringer:
Hello,
I've cleaned all packages where I maintain rc scripts. Lukas J. has moved the legacy to a community[1] package[2].
FYI for Lukas: I removed initscripts support from openvpn, the scripts are still in SVN.
participants (8)
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Alexander Rødseth
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Andreas Radke
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Lukas Jirkovsky
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Pierre Schmitz
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Stéphane Gaudreault
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Sébastien Luttringer
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Thomas Bächler
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Tom Gundersen