[arch-dev-public] Please stop the install message insanity
Wow, I got blasted today with an 88 package upgrade on one of my machines, and this one really stuck out: http://repos.archlinux.org/viewvc.cgi/lighttpd/trunk/lighttpd.install?revision=4866&view=markup I don't even know what is important anymore, so I just stopped reading as I'm sure most of our users do too. 1. *Please* use optdepends for things like: * mod_webdav : libxml2, sqlite3, e2fsprogs * mod_cml : lua * mod_magnet : lua * mod_trigger_b4_dl : gdbm * mod_mysql_vhost : libmysqlclient 2. Showing me these optional things every single time I install is stupid. Use optdepends and educate people to use -Qi. 3. If you are going to do an install message, at least indent it right. Why the heck was everything tabbed over here? 4. Don't keep one-upping every other install message to make sure yours looks important. The number of ++++++++>>>>>>>>> and ===========> and --------------> >> >>> !!!L#K!J#KL:!#KL:@#:%HKL: is getting out of control. OK, I'm done ranting, but I hope someone at least reads this. -Dan
On Sat, 2008-07-19 at 19:09 -0500, Dan McGee wrote:
2. Showing me these optional things every single time I install is stupid. Use optdepends and educate people to use -Qi.
What about storing this information in the package database and let pacman use the information when installing/upgrading. On debian, when I install something with apt-get, it tells me that some packages are getting installed, and also tells me there's some suggested packages that you could install. In addition to that, aptitude just installs all the optional crap in the "suggests" fields. I don't like the aptitude behaviour, but I can imagine new users would like to have a flag for pacman that just installs all optional features. I do agree that these install scriptlets for messages is getting out of control. Another thing is that once you've installed a package and deleted pacman.log, you won't have any other way that catting /var/lib/pacman/local/pkgname/install to find out what are the optional dependencies.
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Jan de Groot <jan@jgc.homeip.net> wrote:
On Sat, 2008-07-19 at 19:09 -0500, Dan McGee wrote:
2. Showing me these optional things every single time I install is stupid. Use optdepends and educate people to use -Qi.
What about storing this information in the package database and let pacman use the information when installing/upgrading. On debian, when I install something with apt-get, it tells me that some packages are getting installed, and also tells me there's some suggested packages that you could install. In addition to that, aptitude just installs all the optional crap in the "suggests" fields. I don't like the aptitude behaviour, but I can imagine new users would like to have a flag for pacman that just installs all optional features.
I do agree that these install scriptlets for messages is getting out of control. Another thing is that once you've installed a package and deleted pacman.log, you won't have any other way that catting /var/lib/pacman/local/pkgname/install to find out what are the optional dependencies.
Yeah, optdepends was intended to go this route. Right now it's only viewable with -Qi, but that's just as good as the install scriptlet messages. I think at some point I wanted to add in a "list optional" command that would list all optdepends for installed packages and the reasons. I agree with Dan. Please use optdepends for this. The format (please correct me if I'm wrong) is something like: optdepends=("foobar: install this to make babies" "barfoo: this one adds a peppery aftertaste" "baz: for those of you using a diesel powered barbie doll")
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Dan McGee <dpmcgee@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow, I got blasted today with an 88 package upgrade on one of my machines, and this one really stuck out: http://repos.archlinux.org/viewvc.cgi/lighttpd/trunk/lighttpd.install?revision=4866&view=markup
I don't even know what is important anymore, so I just stopped reading as I'm sure most of our users do too.
1. *Please* use optdepends for things like: * mod_webdav : libxml2, sqlite3, e2fsprogs * mod_cml : lua * mod_magnet : lua * mod_trigger_b4_dl : gdbm * mod_mysql_vhost : libmysqlclient
2. Showing me these optional things every single time I install is stupid. Use optdepends and educate people to use -Qi.
3. If you are going to do an install message, at least indent it right. Why the heck was everything tabbed over here?
4. Don't keep one-upping every other install message to make sure yours looks important. The number of ++++++++>>>>>>>>> and ===========> and --------------> >> >>> !!!L#K!J#KL:!#KL:@#:%HKL: is getting out of control.
======================================== Was about time it was said, it's annoyed me a bit too.. like the extra formatting. Btw, why do some people persist on manually line wrapping messages... any decent terminal and text editor can wrap without any problems. ======================================== James
Dan McGee schrieb:
Wow, I got blasted today with an 88 package upgrade on one of my machines, and this one really stuck out: http://repos.archlinux.org/viewvc.cgi/lighttpd/trunk/lighttpd.install?revision=4866&view=markup
I don't even know what is important anymore, so I just stopped reading as I'm sure most of our users do too.
The most annoying thing is that post_install messages are displayed post_upgrade (example: dnsmasq) or that a post_upgrade message that should be tied to a specific version is displayed every time.
Thomas Bächler wrote:
Dan McGee schrieb:
Wow, I got blasted today with an 88 package upgrade on one of my machines, and this one really stuck out: http://repos.archlinux.org/viewvc.cgi/lighttpd/trunk/lighttpd.install?revision=4866&view=markup
I don't even know what is important anymore, so I just stopped reading as I'm sure most of our users do too.
The most annoying thing is that post_install messages are displayed post_upgrade (example: dnsmasq) or that a post_upgrade message that should be tied to a specific version is displayed every time.
Agreed. Thanks for pointing that out. I changed this to a post_install in dnsmasq 2.43-2, not post_upgrade, since this one you have to read the first time and not thereafter. - P
On Sat, 2008-07-19 at 19:09 -0500, Dan McGee wrote:
OK, I'm done ranting, but I hope someone at least reads this.
-Dan
As soon as I read this I changed my wine package to use optdepends instead, so I strongly agree with this. I think we should chnage accordingly. For the next wine release it will just tell, "In order to see all the optional dependencies of the wine package, issue the following command: 'pacman -Qi wine'". Thanks for your ranting, it does leaves a possitive effect. Cheers Eduardo "kensai" Romero
participants (7)
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Aaron Griffin
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Dan McGee
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Eduardo Romero
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James Rayner
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Jan de Groot
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Paul Mattal
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Thomas Bächler