[arch-dev-public] Logo -- Concerns over developer entries.
Forwarding on some concerns over entries by developers in the logo competition. I havn't made an official entry, but I have been taking ideas on some designs, with the intention of an official entry after development. http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptAB.png http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptC.png http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptD.png To quote: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=294343#p294343 " Finally, I have a more logistical concern about your potential submission. Rules have been laid out that devs will be the ones doing the initial vote on the logo, and the community only votes in the case of a tie. You submitting as a developer flags as an overt conflict of interest. Regardless of whether you vote or not on your design, you have no way to assure the community that nepotism won't come into play in the logo decision, if you submit. This will discourage others from submitting as they will all be starting at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage as a decision maker will be creating a design of their own. If the developers wanted to create their own logo, they should not have ordained a community contest to have a logo created. I'm hoping all developers can appreciate this point of view. " So two points: - Conflict of interest, easily solved - Favouritism. Thoughts? James
On 10/30/07, James Rayner <iphitus@gmail.com> wrote:
Forwarding on some concerns over entries by developers in the logo competition.
I havn't made an official entry, but I have been taking ideas on some designs, with the intention of an official entry after development. http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptAB.png http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptC.png http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptD.png
To quote: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=294343#p294343
" Finally, I have a more logistical concern about your potential submission. Rules have been laid out that devs will be the ones doing the initial vote on the logo, and the community only votes in the case of a tie. You submitting as a developer flags as an overt conflict of interest. Regardless of whether you vote or not on your design, you have no way to assure the community that nepotism won't come into play in the logo decision, if you submit. This will discourage others from submitting as they will all be starting at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage as a decision maker will be creating a design of their own. If the developers wanted to create their own logo, they should not have ordained a community contest to have a logo created. I'm hoping all developers can appreciate this point of view. "
So two points: - Conflict of interest, easily solved - Favouritism.
Thoughts?
My thought? This is extreme (maybe even bullshit?) to me. Usually one resorts to nepotism when it pays off for both parties. Considering 1. you aren't getting paid 2. we aren't getting paid either, I don't see it playing that big of a factor. The community clearly wanted to get involved with this as they pretty much started it on their own. It is sad to think that a member of the dev team with ideas shouldn't even be allowed to submit them. I feel like we are a pretty honest group of guys here running this thing, and these type of comments actually bug me believe it or not. -Dan
2007/10/30, Dan McGee <dpmcgee@gmail.com>:
On 10/30/07, James Rayner <iphitus@gmail.com> wrote:
Forwarding on some concerns over entries by developers in the logo competition.
I havn't made an official entry, but I have been taking ideas on some designs, with the intention of an official entry after development. http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptAB.png http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptC.png http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptD.png
To quote: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=294343#p294343
" Finally, I have a more logistical concern about your potential submission. Rules have been laid out that devs will be the ones doing the initial vote on the logo, and the community only votes in the case of a tie. You submitting as a developer flags as an overt conflict of interest. Regardless of whether you vote or not on your design, you have no way to assure the community that nepotism won't come into play in the logo decision, if you submit. This will discourage others from submitting as they will all be starting at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage as a decision maker will be creating a design of their own. If the developers wanted to create their own logo, they should not have ordained a community contest to have a logo created. I'm hoping all developers can appreciate this point of view. "
So two points: - Conflict of interest, easily solved - Favouritism.
Thoughts?
My thought? This is extreme (maybe even bullshit?) to me. Usually one resorts to nepotism when it pays off for both parties. Considering 1. you aren't getting paid 2. we aren't getting paid either, I don't see it playing that big of a factor.
The community clearly wanted to get involved with this as they pretty much started it on their own. It is sad to think that a member of the dev team with ideas shouldn't even be allowed to submit them.
I feel like we are a pretty honest group of guys here running this thing, and these type of comments actually bug me believe it or not.
I honestly don't care *who* submitted the design that I would like the most. I don't think that a submission from a dev has more chances to win than a submission from a user. -- Roman Kyrylych (Роман Кирилич)
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:47:43 +1100 (EST) "James Rayner" <iphitus@gmail.com> wrote:
Forwarding on some concerns over entries by developers in the logo competition.
I havn't made an official entry, but I have been taking ideas on some designs, with the intention of an official entry after development. http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptAB.png http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptC.png http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptD.png
To quote: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=294343#p294343
" Finally, I have a more logistical concern about your potential submission. Rules have been laid out that devs will be the ones doing the initial vote on the logo, and the community only votes in the case of a tie. You submitting as a developer flags as an overt conflict of interest. Regardless of whether you vote or not on your design, you have no way to assure the community that nepotism won't come into play in the logo decision, if you submit. This will discourage others from submitting as they will all be starting at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage as a decision maker will be creating a design of their own. If the developers wanted to create their own logo, they should not have ordained a community contest to have a logo created. I'm hoping all developers can appreciate this point of view. "
So two points: - Conflict of interest, easily solved - Favouritism.
Thoughts?
James
Favouritism? Bah, everybody knows we all hate you, James. :P (jk, of course) In all honesty, I think something like our official logo will important enough that devs will truthfully vote for those logos that they consider to be the best of the bunch, regardless of who submitted it - I know that's going to be my stance - heck, my WIFE was considering making an entry - that's got favouritism and conflict-of-interest written all over it, but if I honestly don't like her entry, I won't vote for it - the logo we're going to use is too important for that kind of silly stuff. However, we can talk about it until we're blue in the face, and if the community is still worried, then it's the community that needs to discuss the issue. Would changing from a private vote to a public vote alleviate these problems, or would that cause more issues than it solves? -- Travis
On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 10:47:43PM +1100, James Rayner wrote:
Forwarding on some concerns over entries by developers in the logo competition.
I havn't made an official entry, but I have been taking ideas on some designs, with the intention of an official entry after development. http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptAB.png http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptC.png http://src.iphitus.org/arch-logo/conceptD.png
To quote: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=294343#p294343
" Finally, I have a more logistical concern about your potential submission. Rules have been laid out that devs will be the ones doing the initial vote on the logo, and the community only votes in the case of a tie. You submitting as a developer flags as an overt conflict of interest. Regardless of whether you vote or not on your design, you have no way to assure the community that nepotism won't come into play in the logo decision, if you submit. This will discourage others from submitting as they will all be starting at a SIGNIFICANT disadvantage as a decision maker will be creating a design of their own. If the developers wanted to create their own logo, they should not have ordained a community contest to have a logo created. I'm hoping all developers can appreciate this point of view. "
So two points: - Conflict of interest, easily solved - Favouritism.
Thoughts?
First thought: wow what's this community coming to? Second thought: what a load of bullshit. Afterthoughts: Also the linked threads have "we didn't have anything productive to do, so we decided to discuss this" written all over them. *whistles* http://www.bikeshed.com/ *keeps whistling* To borrow an oft-used motto around here (thank goodness) "patches welcome." In this case, by patch I mean, make a better submission, and quit yer bitching. SHEESH! -S
Tuesday 30 October 2007, James Rayner wrote: | So two points: | - Conflict of interest, easily solved | - Favouritism. to evade this, please make an official entry for any of your contributions. tihs discussion is closed. :) - D -- .·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´ ° ° ° ° ° ° ><((((º> ° ° ° ° ° <º)))>< <º)))><
On 10/30/07, Damir Perisa <damir.perisa@solnet.ch> wrote:
Tuesday 30 October 2007, James Rayner wrote: | So two points: | - Conflict of interest, easily solved | - Favouritism.
to evade this, please make an official entry for any of your contributions. tihs discussion is closed. :)
Agreed. Travis, could you please post in the announcement thread something to the effect of "Concerns were raised over developers entering the competition due to the fact that they will be voting. This was not disallowed from the beginning, and as such will not be disallowed here. Next time we will make sure to look into this before the competition begins" /me chuckles
I find the whole community response to be mind boggling. I like the artistic submissions, but the forum threads surrounding them have been distasteful. I also was not aware of the 'community vote on tie breaker' thing came from. I had always assumed that in the event of a 'tie', then aaron would just pick which one he wanted. He is the freakin' project lead ffs. Can we please get this damn thing over with. It is causing needless hassle and problems.
On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 10:53:09 -0500 "Aaron Griffin" <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10/30/07, Damir Perisa <damir.perisa@solnet.ch> wrote:
Tuesday 30 October 2007, James Rayner wrote: | So two points: | - Conflict of interest, easily solved | - Favouritism.
to evade this, please make an official entry for any of your contributions. tihs discussion is closed. :)
Agreed. Travis, could you please post in the announcement thread something to the effect of "Concerns were raised over developers entering the competition due to the fact that they will be voting. This was not disallowed from the beginning, and as such will not be disallowed here. Next time we will make sure to look into this before the competition begins" /me chuckles
A similar passage has been added. -- Travis
participants (8)
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Aaron Griffin
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Damir Perisa
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Dan McGee
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eliott
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James Rayner
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Roman Kyrylych
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Simo Leone
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Travis Willard