On Thu, 2007-08-09 at 21:57 +0200, Damir Perisa wrote:

Thursday 09 August 2007, Jan de Groot wrote: | As some of us have noticed, there's a new toolchain in current | now. One of the new features is GNU hashing for library symbols. | This should speed up linking libraries together. To get full | advantage of this hashing, the ideal thing would be to have | everything built using GNU hashing on your system. I would suggest | a full repo rebuild for this.

you mean having

--hash-style=gnu

as standard for any ld?

i read it would increase speed up to 50%, sounds great! is it backward compatible? no, right? how do debuggers deal with this? do they already know it? (or we need to update/fix them first?)

--hash-style=both is what the new gcc compiles with by default. This is backwards compatible on runtime, though older binutils versions can't link to these libraries at least on amd64 (see various bugreports we got because some maintainers use testing to compile current stuff with)

On Thu, Aug 09, 2007 at 10:51:29PM +0200, Andreas Radke wrote:

i'm not sure if makeworld now works with makepkg3.x - Dan/Aaron, how is the state? and can it handle the whole distribution? maybe we should add makedistro to autoincrease the pkgrel and filtering packages that won't compile.

well we should have the possibility to rebuild the whole distribution whenever we want. every other distribution does it for their "releases". we should also have the option to make afford of new features and optimisations the toolchain gives us.

but i see big traffic problems for our mirrors and non flatrate users coming. that's one downside of a rolling release.

Andy

We'd probably want to make it coencide with a cd release. That way people could at least download new base images. Jason

Roman Kyrylych wrote:

2007/8/10, Travis Willard :

...

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 21:16:00 +0200 Jan de Groot wrote:

...

As some of us have noticed, there's a new toolchain in current now. One of the new features is GNU hashing for library symbols. This should speed up linking libraries together. To get full advantage of this hashing, the ideal thing would be to have everything built using GNU hashing on your system. I would suggest a full repo rebuild for this.

Another reason for a full repo rebuild would be the bugs we get regarding old packages. And to get correct license information pushed out to the actual packages. If we could combine this incentive with making sure all license fields are correct, every package in our repos would quickly have the license info and that would be cool.

And don't forget about md5sums! ;-) There were a lot of them missing last time I remember.

I suggest to start with that stuff when some of us are on Froscon. Meaning we can collaboratively fix things as they break. Plus the devs who are there can dedicate themselves much more as it is their free time anyway. :) I'd be helping with x86_64 mostly though, as I think the team is smaller still. Cheers, -A

On 8/10/07, Damir Perisa wrote:

Friday 10 August 2007, Alexander Baldeck wrote: | I'd be helping with x86_64 mostly though, as I think the team is | smaller still.

as soon as my new laptop arrives, i will most probably changing teams.

"changing teams" ? I never really thought of the guys with x86_64 hardware as another team.... to me it's like saying "the people with wireless hardware are a different team"

On 10/08/07, Aaron Griffin wrote:

On 8/10/07, Damir Perisa wrote:

...

Friday 10 August 2007, Alexander Baldeck wrote: | I'd be helping with x86_64 mostly though, as I think the team is | smaller still.

as soon as my new laptop arrives, i will most probably changing teams.

"changing teams" ? I never really thought of the guys with x86_64 hardware as another team.... to me it's like saying "the people with wireless hardware are a different team"

I don't like for the fact that some members of certain teams seem to have the interests of their team first and foremost, with the other team a distant second...

On 10/08/07, Damir Perisa wrote:

Friday 10 August 2007, Phil Dillon-Thiselton wrote: | I don't like for the fact that some members of certain teams seem | to have the interests of their team first and foremost, with the | other team a distant second...

actually... me neither!

therefore please let me introduce myself to all you guys i do not know yet so good because of passivity and inactivity.

i'm Damir Perisa, package manager for i686 for some years, i try to keep i18n one of archs projects and actually i would rather be dancing tango or being somewhere taking pictures than spending time on computers but sometimes you have to do also the dry work to keep things running :) ... i'm at the moment writing my master thesis in molecular biology what explains my increased passivity over the last year or so... welcome all you new guys! never met you at one of the last meetings, because ....well... i myself was missing, sorry.

Hallo. I was missing as well.

looking forward to unite the arch-itectures* and teams and increase my time for arch soon (qt4, kde4, qt4-immodule, scientific pkgs cleanup feature enhancement and other things on my roadmap)

As you may have seen from the clean up wiki I have a vested interest in some of those science pkgs so keep us informed as to your thinking :-)

about uniting things and suchalike: actually i'm quite confused about the state and the processes in x68_64 ... so i have some homework in front of me... :)

best regards, Damir

* play of words on "arch-enemies"

-- dcop amarok player nowPlaying: Gotan Project - La Del Ruso

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On Fri, 2007-08-10 at 12:34 +0200, Alexander Baldeck wrote:

I suggest to start with that stuff when some of us are on Froscon. Meaning we can collaboratively fix things as they break. Plus the devs who are there can dedicate themselves much more as it is their free time anyway. :)

I'd be helping with x86_64 mostly though, as I think the team is smaller still.

Good point, though I wonder if bumping pkgrels is all we will do at froscon. About the smaller team: these days I build for both architectures. Yes, it takes a while to build and upload, but as I use AMD64 on my main machine now, I can compile for both architectures now.

On 8/10/07, Andreas Radke wrote:

as we all know pacman can handle subdezimal numbers ;-) - just script it to add a .1 behind every pkgrel and then run makeworld over it.

Why not just increment the pkgrel? I don't understand the significance

Friday 10 August 2007, Jürgen Hötzel wrote: | Me too. Where is the semantic difference between moving to -2 and | -1.1 or 1.01? speaking about labels, marks (and probably also the seldom occuring apostrophe), why not rebuilding everything by adding .1hash to pkgrel while doing the makeworld? this would be an indication for the rebuilt distro... a hallmark in history... the 8th world wonder. - D -- dcop amarok player nowPlaying: Gotan Project - La Del Ruso

On 8/10/07, Andreas Radke wrote:

we already have packages with subdecimal versions in both architectures. it's just a question of shell scripting what's the easy way to increase either the pkgrel or add ".1"

it's trivial in both cases. either way, it doesn't seem right to try and optimize a process based on limitations of a language. Still, I never liked decimal pkgrels. It's the "release" number, or number of times ArchLinux has released or rebuilt the package. It doesn't make sense anymore when you say you released a package 0.3 times. What was the rationale behind using decimal pkgrels? Because I really have no idea where it started.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2007 at 02:17:44PM -0500, Aaron Griffin wrote:

On 8/10/07, Andreas Radke wrote:

...

we already have packages with subdecimal versions in both architectures. it's just a question of shell scripting what's the easy way to increase either the pkgrel or add ".1"

it's trivial in both cases. either way, it doesn't seem right to try and optimize a process based on limitations of a language.

Still, I never liked decimal pkgrels. It's the "release" number, or number of times ArchLinux has released or rebuilt the package. It doesn't make sense anymore when you say you released a package 0.3 times.

What was the rationale behind using decimal pkgrels? Because I really have no idea where it started.

That's my fault. We started it with testing and tur releases: 1t1 and 1s1. That way if we were testing revisions that would be released in official as -2, the testing package would be -2t1. Someone figured that users would be confused if packages went from -1 to -3. I didn't think so. After that it was i686 and x86_64. The x86_64 people sometimes had to make changes to PKGBUILDs so that they would build on their machines. When i686 releases -3, x86_64 has to modify it so they release -3.1. That way we'd know that the x86_64 -3.1 was actually just a modification of the i686 package to work with x86_64 instead of being a totally different release -4. There have been a number of cases where people have been confused between ppc, x86_64, and i686 thinking that one release was actually equivalent to another release in a different architecture. We were using this to keep track. What would you think if x86_64 had a -4 version of a package that you have as -3 in i686? Would you think that i686 should update to -4? Or would you check the PKGBUILDs of the two of them to see if one or the other needs an update? Jason

On 8/10/07, Jason Chu wrote:

What would you think if x86_64 had a -4 version of a package that you have as -3 in i686? Would you think that i686 should update to -4? Or would you check the PKGBUILDs of the two of them to see if one or the other needs an update?

Well, there's a few things here that make this point either moot, or an edge case: a) most people don't know the versions that another arch uses. It's really that simple. If I `pacman -S foo` and get 1.5-4, it doesn't tell me what version x86_64 has. The front page likewise only shows i686 packages (sadly...). b) if people get confused then they don't understand the significance of the pkgrel, and it's thus our responsibility to make it more clear. Also, Juergen, thanks for the script - I was gonna do it when I got home from work as I knew it was that simple. You just beat me 8)

On Fri, Aug 10, 2007 at 09:39:01PM +0200, Damir Perisa wrote:

Friday 10 August 2007, Aaron Griffin wrote: | Still, I never liked decimal pkgrels. It's the "release" number, | or number of times ArchLinux has released or rebuilt the package. | It doesn't make sense anymore when you say you released a package | 0.3 times.

at least it is decimals... imagine we would work in multiple dimensions and have pkgrel as a multidimensional matrix :)

well.. 0.3 times means that in 3 out of 10 times it is rebuilt LOL

sorry... it was a long day and i find it _really_ funny.

Hmm... most of the discussion on this is list is about "'" and "." ;)) me musing ;)) Jürgen

Am Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:17:44 -0500 schrieb "Aaron Griffin" :

What was the rationale behind using decimal pkgrels? Because I really have no idea where it started.

a decimal pkgrel so far shows that a fix or rebuild was only done for one architecture. the one where the pkg is still perfect stays without a decimal pkgrel and saves them a unnecessary build/up-/download. Andy

On Fri, Aug 10, 2007 at 06:48:03PM +0200, Andreas Radke wrote:

as we all know pacman can handle subdezimal numbers ;-) - just script it to add a .1 behind every pkgrel and then run makeworld over it.

Wow. You sound like you need a good KISS. *muuuah* -S