[arch-dev-public] Moving systemd v42 to [extra]
Hi all, Since the v38 release of systemd, the infamous journal has been implemented, but stability has been somewhat lacking. Between v38 and v41, some of you might have noticed that I've been keeping systemd in [testing]. As of v41, most of the concerns have been addressed, but there's still a few minor annoyances that I expect to see fixed for v42. Assuming this is true, I'll be moving systemd into [extra]. What does this mean for people who don't use systemd? - Nothing. It means absolutely nothing at all. You can go about your daily lives and you will see zero impact from this change. Your significant other(s), children, and pets are all safe. Nothing will be kicked or set on fire. - You don't need to read the rest of this email. What does this mean for people who uses systemd? - New toys! systemd-cat, systemd-cgtop, systemd-journalctl. If you want a full list of features and bugfixes, I suggest checking out the NEWS file [1] in the git repo. - With the journal enabled (and it is enabled by default), you no longer need to run a syslog daemon (i.e. syslog-ng or rsyslog). The journal, by default, writes to /run/systemd/journal (meaning logs will poof on reboot). If you want to keep your logs, simply create /var/log/journal. If you really want to keep using a syslog daemon, you must tell it to read from /run/systemd/journal/socket, NOT /dev/log. - systemadm has been split off to a separate repo (upstream). I've added systemd-ui-git to the AUR. If there's enough popularity, I'll add a systemd-ui package to community. - Nothing is happening to systemd-arch-units and systemd-initscripts. These packages are staying in [community]. The über-idealist long term plan for both of these packages is (still) that they go away (functionality merged in respective upstreams). In addition, I'll be introducing a package which conflicts with sysvinit and depends on systemd which merely replaces the binaries that sysvinit provides (init, telinit, reboot, shutdown, etc) with systemd equivalents (symlinks to systemctl). This won't be a requirement of anyone, but it'll make things a little cleaner for those of us who have already ditched initscripts and sysvinit. Regards, Dave [1] http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/NEWS
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 16:29, Dave Reisner <d@falconindy.com> wrote:
- Nothing is happening to systemd-arch-units and systemd-initscripts. These packages are staying in [community].
I may be missing something (didn't try systemd yet) but what is the purpose of having systemd in extra when packages that make it useful are in community? -- Roman Kyrylych (Роман Кирилич)
Hi Roman, On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Roman Kyrylych <roman.kyrylych@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 16:29, Dave Reisner <d@falconindy.com> wrote:
- Nothing is happening to systemd-arch-units and systemd-initscripts. These packages are staying in [community].
I may be missing something (didn't try systemd yet) but what is the purpose of having systemd in extra when packages that make it useful are in community?
Many packages in core/extra have systemd support (i.e. they install systemd units in /lib/systemd/system), and we expect even more to get this in the future. For the time being, you'd probably also want systemd-units-arch and/or initscripts-systemd from community in order to make systemd work well, but we expect this not to be the case for much longer. Cheers, Tom
Hi all,
Since the v38 release of systemd, the infamous journal has been implemented, but stability has been somewhat lacking. Between v38 and v41, some of you might have noticed that I've been keeping systemd in [testing].
As of v41, most of the concerns have been addressed, but there's still a few minor annoyances that I expect to see fixed for v42. Assuming this is true, I'll be moving systemd into [extra].
What does this mean for people who don't use systemd?
- Nothing. It means absolutely nothing at all. You can go about your daily lives and you will see zero impact from this change. Your significant other(s), children, and pets are all safe. Nothing will be kicked or set on fire. - You don't need to read the rest of this email.
What does this mean for people who uses systemd?
- New toys! systemd-cat, systemd-cgtop, systemd-journalctl. If you want a full list of features and bugfixes, I suggest checking out the NEWS file [1] in the git repo. - With the journal enabled (and it is enabled by default), you no longer need to run a syslog daemon (i.e. syslog-ng or rsyslog). The journal, by default, writes to /run/systemd/journal (meaning logs will poof on reboot). If you want to keep your logs, simply create /var/log/journal. If you really want to keep using a syslog daemon, you must tell it to read from /run/systemd/journal/socket, NOT /dev/log. - systemadm has been split off to a separate repo (upstream). I've added systemd-ui-git to the AUR. If there's enough popularity, I'll add a systemd-ui package to community. - Nothing is happening to systemd-arch-units and systemd-initscripts. These packages are staying in [community]. The über-idealist long term plan for both of these packages is (still) that they go away (functionality merged in respective upstreams).
In addition, I'll be introducing a package which conflicts with sysvinit and depends on systemd which merely replaces the binaries that sysvinit provides (init, telinit, reboot, shutdown, etc) with systemd equivalents (symlinks to systemctl). This won't be a requirement of anyone, but it'll make things a little cleaner for those of us who have already ditched initscripts and sysvinit.
Regards, Dave
[1] http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/NEWS Do we plan to eventually replace our init system by systemd ? Or we will
Le 2012-02-09 09:29, Dave Reisner a écrit : provide systemd in [extra] only as an alternative ? I am not a systemd user, but I have nothig against the move to [extra]. Just want to understand the long term plans. Cheers, Stéphane
Am 09.02.2012 15:57, schrieb Stéphane Gaudreault:
Do we plan to eventually replace our init system by systemd ? Or we will provide systemd in [extra] only as an alternative ?
I am not a systemd user, but I have nothig against the move to [extra]. Just want to understand the long term plans.
Long-term, I would say this is very likely to become the default. At some point in the next 5 or so years, systemd will probably become the only viable alternative.
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org> wrote:
Am 09.02.2012 15:57, schrieb Stéphane Gaudreault:
Do we plan to eventually replace our init system by systemd ? Or we will provide systemd in [extra] only as an alternative ?
I am not a systemd user, but I have nothig against the move to [extra]. Just want to understand the long term plans.
Long-term, I would say this is very likely to become the default. At some point in the next 5 or so years, systemd will probably become the only viable alternative.
I agree that this is probably what will eventually happen. However, for the time being there are no such plans, and personally my aim in working with initscripts and systemd is to make sure it is as smooth as possible for Arch users to switch back and forth between the two, and that they are mutually compatible to the extent that is reasonable. Should it turn out that systemd is a failure, nothing is lost and we stay with initscripts; alternatively if we decide to switch to systemd in some years time we will have a very well-tested and well-integrated package ready to be used. Cheers, Tom
On 10/02/12 01:20, Tom Gundersen wrote:
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org> wrote:
Am 09.02.2012 15:57, schrieb Stéphane Gaudreault:
Do we plan to eventually replace our init system by systemd ? Or we will provide systemd in [extra] only as an alternative ?
I am not a systemd user, but I have nothig against the move to [extra]. Just want to understand the long term plans.
Long-term, I would say this is very likely to become the default. At some point in the next 5 or so years, systemd will probably become the only viable alternative.
I agree that this is probably what will eventually happen.
However, for the time being there are no such plans, and personally my aim in working with initscripts and systemd is to make sure it is as smooth as possible for Arch users to switch back and forth between the two, and that they are mutually compatible to the extent that is reasonable.
Should it turn out that systemd is a failure, nothing is lost and we stay with initscripts; alternatively if we decide to switch to systemd in some years time we will have a very well-tested and well-integrated package ready to be used.
That sounds good to me. Allan
On Thu, Feb 09, 2012 at 09:57:30AM -0500, Stéphane Gaudreault wrote:
Do we plan to eventually replace our init system by systemd ? Or we will provide systemd in [extra] only as an alternative ?
I am not a systemd user, but I have nothig against the move to [extra]. Just want to understand the long term plans.
Cheers,
Stéphane
Nope. No such plans exist right now. systemd is merely available as an alternative. d
participants (6)
-
Allan McRae
-
Dave Reisner
-
Roman Kyrylych
-
Stéphane Gaudreault
-
Thomas Bächler
-
Tom Gundersen