It assumes that there has been a debate (or perhaps that no debate was possible in the first place), and has been lost
On Wednesday 26 March 2008 23:10:58 Geoff wrote: there was on irc. its where i felt pretty alone with my ideas. left freenode. turns out that the medium irc is missing a majority of voices. -- On Wednesday 26 March 2008 20:21:49 Dimitrios Apostolou wrote:
If arch returns to "the arch way" please remind me to post a list of packages with superfluous patches applied... I have a few very specific packages in mind too :) I even though about picking a specific package up in case the specific developer gets accidently hit by a car multiple times or lost in a snake pit during the process. -- On Wed 2008-03-26 16:46 , Jan de Groot wrote: I think we are overrating the problem here. I never saw in Arch's packages patches applied just for fun, or to add useless features [..] I have no idea why mactel patches aren't merged in the vanilla tree, but I'd like to boot Arch on my macbook anyway. [..] if someone wants a kernel26-zomgvanillaistehbest , he can remove all the patches and create the packages by himself. I disagree, but it doesn't matter since no one forces us to use the same distro. I chose arch becouse its ideas match MINE. not yours. --
On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Filip Wojciechowski <fwojciec@gmail.com> wrote:
I, personally, find this divisive rhetoric of good (old) users vs. bad (new) users, as well as good developers (who do what "we" want them to do) vs. bad developers (who "should be kicked out") rather disturbing :/
well face it. there are two different tastes here. see above. It's not "new" vs "old" but actually arch way vs not. Finally lines have to be drawn clearly. It's unconvinient becouse it _might_ result in some people leaving archlinux. but it doesnt have to. Althought actually i expect a couple of users to leave: Those who cry in irc about not getting into a ready fucked up kde or gnome right after clicking throught the gui installer. -- On Wednesday 26 March 2008 16:46:18 Jan de Groot wrote:
Get ready to run a distro that breaks your system on every pacman -Syu because upgrade paths are not handled. Yes, this is win win win I guess. You are totally right. Archlinux with the full force of the arch way, has a higher risk to fail on system upgrade then debian. But: (Without going into detail how debians "convenience "automaticly crippled my apache a few weeks ago):
I am willing to trade stability for transparency. I am willing to trade safety for freedom. quote me on that if you need to. This view hasnt changed since i am alive. I can use my damn brain and i don't need other people to do that for me.
If we want to go this way, I consider myself as ex-developer.
Thats sad. But i dont blame you devs (except one, who i blame personally for beeing an asshole and for knowingly damaging specific projects including arch). It's just that arch isnt a 100 users distro anymore, so you see yourself actually providing more tools for more users. etc. It's understandable that you feel uncomfortable about rejecting a specific patch just becouse it violates the arch way while it could help like 20 users get arch run by default on their dishing machine. And of course you have to admit that you like getting attention from users who admire your work for them. Most of us who are now complaining propably never did say thank you for fixing a stupid typo in some stupid Makefile, becouse we can do that ourselfs. But: i do say thank you for all those years of having a working distro that actually didn't make me want to punch faces every keystroke i make. I admire your work no less. In fact my admiration is of higher quality, becouse i actually mean it, and i actually stand here (virtually. imagine me in a ninja suite) and fight for it. -- best regards/Mit freundlichen Grüßen Arvid Ephraim Picciani