On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Paul Gideon Dann <pdgiddie@gmail.com>wrote:
On Monday 13 Jan 2014 17:58:59 Maxime Gauduin wrote:
I only use a few ruby packages. However, you said it yourself, ruby and pacman both have different uses, my point was: do not change the content of a dir managed by pacman, do so elsewhere. I'm not saying you shouldn't ever use both. In the end, we're free to do anything we want, I just think it is bad practice to mix things up like described above. In extreme cases, just have a look at Windows, where anybody can install anything anywhere, we all know what it ends up like :P
What worries me about this is that you're making a clear distinction between "users" and "developers". I'm not convinced that is really consistent with the Arch Way, which I have always admired because it expects that the line between users and developers is blurry, and actively encourages users to experiment and cross over. The idea of needing to "switch" to ruby's (purpose-built) method of handling gems when a user wants to achieve "developer" status seems wrong to me.
The Arch Way is not about encouraging you to be a developer, it is about leaving all the tools in your hands so that you can decide what you want to do with them. I don't have a problem making a distinction between users and developers, and clearly you are not dealing with users on a daily basis if you can't do the same :P I don't consider myself a developer, but I still make the most out of Arch Linux in my own way, which is, the Arch Way. There is no "typical" Arch user/developer, each person uses it differently for their own purpose, be it a server, home media center, gaming rig or a ruby hacking machine.
And for what?
sudo pacman -S ruby-json sudo pacman -R ruby-json
instead of:
sudo gem install json sudo gem uninstall json
It doesn't seem worth it to me. The commands can easily be documented in the wiki, and then the bar is lowered that tiny bit more for hacking something together in Ruby. Bear in mind that rubygems doesn't spread files all over the system, either. They're kept neatly tucked out of the way in /usr/lib/ruby, except for a few wrappers that end up in /usr/bin so that they're in the PATH.
Paul
It seems to me (maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it feels) you wish to force people to use rubygem instead of pacman, but I say it is not necessary if pacman is sufficient for their need. If you feel the need to do so, and I'm sure other people do, I'm just stating that in my opinion it is bad practice to interfere with pacman's ecosystem via another package manager, all the more if you give it root permissions. Now I understand you have a need for root permissions, and I won't insist , but keep in mind that gems can be installed anywhere outside pacman's jurisdiction and still be run as root. I know rubygem is not messy at all, I'm using it to repackage gems for pacman, still I think it is a good idea for most people to point it to a safe directory, and you always have the possibility to add the relevant dir to your PATH. As for multiple versions, the root of all evil is that there are too many gems that are not updated to support the latest version of a gem. Pacman does not have to deal with that because we make sure packages are always compatible with the latest and greatest, by submitting patches and/or bug reports upstream. That's one of the 2 reasons why rubygem can be a better choice for advanced ruby users, the other being the effort needed to repackage gems (which is not much, unless you have hundreds of them). Now I feel this discussion has dragged out for too long, and I believe I've made my point several times already, so I will take my leave and go back to my cave to geek to my heart's content :P Cheers, -- Maxime