Am Sat, 11 Aug 2012 00:56:33 +0200 schrieb Tom Gundersen <teg@jklm.no>:
This is not the right mailinglist for this issue. And this certainly is not the right thread for it.
This is the right mailing list for this issue, because downstream is also affected by this. And it is also downstream's decision whether to ship systemd or not. And you do it by forcing all that systemd stuff like systemd-tools and all those service files on every user if he wants to have systemd on his system or not. So this IS the right mailing list.
You are free to reimplement all those tools and ship a competing package. The configuration formats are well-documented, so it should not be hard.
Why would I? There are tools which are working. Systemd is still not working. For cryptsetup there was and currently still is a working code in initscripts. So principally no need to use some systemd-tools for this. And this code covered a lot more use cases than systemd-cryptsetup originally. And I know this code, because I have written at least most part of this code. The syntax could indeed a bit more clearer, but that could have been done without systemd-cryptsetup. What about all the already existing tools, someone else recently mentioned here on the list? Still no word about them. Still no discussion it they are sufficient or probably better than systemd.
What are you talking about? No one forgot anything. This is what happened: You pointed out a feature that initsrcipts used to have which systemd-cryptsetup lacked, (on the same day) I posted a patch to implement the feature you requested, and asked for feedback (which you didn't give), one week later I posted the patch upstream and (on the same day) Lennart replied: "Applied." The functionality should now be part of systemd 188, which is in testing. What more could you possibly ask for?
Just simple. I ask for first thinking about use cases and about reliability before writing such a tool and before trying to make it a de facto standard. I ask for thinking about professional users and their usage. And I ask for firstly learning about professional computer usage and about UNIX and the UNIX principle. And first of all I mean Lennart Poettering in this case. That's only one point. I, btw., also mentioned that you filed a bug report about this particular issue to upstream and that it is hopefully fixed. But nevertheless it shows that systemd was not complete, and that the systemd developer didn't think enough before releasing it, exactly like PulseAudio.
I have the impression that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
And all those people who criticise PA, systemd and Lennart Poettering, too, have also no clue about what they are talking? All those people who mark those comments in several other forums totally green and who send comments in which they agree have also no clue? They are all stupid? And only you have the necessary knowledge? And only you are the wisdom in person? Is this what you want to say? I have the impression that you are one of those systemd fanboys, and just don't want to hear that systemd and PA have a lot of serious issues. And like I said in another thread, we're not talking about some fancy stuff like installing a GTK theme or the like. We're talking about serious and important, system relevant stuff. Btw., still no word about the reasons, why there are regularly so many and so long discussions about PA, systemd and Lennart Poettering, and not only here on this mailing list, but everywhere on the web. Still no word why those many, long discussions only appear about PA, systemd and Lennart Poettering and not about any other piece of software. You really should start thinking about this. And you should start soon. You really should take off your rose-colored glasses.
Why don't you just delete the things you don't want?
Why are those things, which I don't need and want, installed? Why am I forced to have this systemd stuff installed? And what, if I delete them manually? Shall I always delete them again and again after every system update? Sorry, that's not the way to go. Like I said before, if you would support systemd, sytemd-tools and everything else related to systemd totally optional, and keep initscripts pure initscripts without any systemd stuff like it was before, I would say nothing. But since you really force the users to install this systemd stuff, you will have to live with such comments, and not only from me, as you should know. Heiko