On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 00:14, Mick firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:34:50 +0800 Oon-Ee Ng email@example.com wrote:
Am I the only one reading this thread who sees the inherent contradiction of wanting complete control over your system, wanting things not to break, yet wanting software to be (relatively frequently) updated?
All I'm asking for is a way to cope with the REGULAR breaking of a few functions by updates. Unless I have missed something in the pacman docs there is no way I can conveniently pick and choose which updates to install, I can only install either all or none of the bundle that pacman offers. Yes I know I can exclude packages via pacman.conf but for that I need to be able to isolate the offending package(s).
My primary desire for updates is for: 1.) security fixes 2.) bug fixes
I don't need to update for new features unless its a feature I need, in which case I am happy to chase it myself and expect problems.
The fact that these particular issues keep on occurring, not only to me, and there seems to be no consistency in the solution suggest to me that something needs to be done, maybe just clearer docs.
I did make a mistake when I chose Arch. I asked friends on yahoo chat for suggestions for a replacement my then distro when it focused on eye-candy to the detriment of function and several suggested Arch. It was only when the problems I raised here struck the first time that I found Arch made no pretensions to being fit for production. By that time I had come to like most of what Arch is.
To summarize, if your answer to 'what package broke it?' is simply 'I don't know, too many packages got updated at one time' then there's no real possible solution to this problem.
going back to the pacman log I could narrow it down to one of: synchronizing package lists starting full system upgrade upgraded glib2 (2.28.8-1 -> 2.30.0-1) upgraded gdl (3.0.2-1 -> 3.2.0-1) upgraded libsasl (2.1.23-7 -> 2.1.23-8) upgraded libldap (2.4.26-3 -> 2.4.26-4) upgraded coreutils (8.13-2 -> 8.14-1) upgraded filesystem (2011.08-1 -> 2011.10-1) upgraded dbus-core (1.4.14-1 -> 1.4.16-1) upgraded dbus-glib (0.94-2 -> 0.98-1) upgraded gconf (2.32.4-1 -> 3.2.0-1) upgraded nettle (2.2-1 -> 2.4-1) upgraded gnutls (3.0.3-1 -> 3.0.4-2) upgraded gsettings-desktop-schemas (3.0.1-2 -> 3.2.0-1) upgraded glib-networking (2.28.7-5 -> 2.30.0-1) upgraded libsoup (2.34.3-1 -> 2.36.0-1) upgraded libwebkit3 (1.4.3-1 -> 1.6.1-1) installed json-glib (0.14.0-1) upgraded libgnome-keyring (3.0.3-1 -> 3.2.0-1) upgraded libgda (4.2.9-1 -> 4.99.4-1) upgraded vala (0.12.1-1 -> 0.14.0-1) upgraded dbus (1.4.14-1 -> 1.4.16-1) upgraded dconf (0.8.0-1 -> 0.10.0-1) upgraded exiv2 (0.21.1-2 -> 0.22-1) upgraded x264 (20110617-1 -> 20111001-1) upgraded gobject-introspection (0.10.8-1 -> 1.30.0-1) upgraded libpeas (1.0.0-1 -> 1.2.0-1) installed pygobject-devel (3.0.1-1) installed python2-gobject (3.0.1-1) upgraded glibmm (2.28.2-1 -> 2.30.0-1) installed libgdu (3.0.2-2) installed libcap-ng (0.6.6-1) upgraded python2-egg (2.25.3-10 -> 2.25.3-11) upgraded python2-gksu2 (2.25.3-10 -> 2.25.3-11) upgraded python2-gtkhtml2 (2.25.3-10 -> 2.25.3-11) upgraded python2-gtkspell (2.25.3-10 -> 2.25.3-11) upgraded gnome-python-extras (2.25.3-10 -> 2.25.3-11) upgraded python2-bsddb (5.2.0-1 -> 5.2.0-2) upgraded libsoup-gnome (2.34.3-1 -> 2.36.0-1) upgraded gvfs (1.8.2-1 -> 1.10.0-2) upgraded strigi (0.7.5-4 -> 0.7.6-1) upgraded krb5 (1.9.1-3 -> 1.9.1-4) installed libplist (1.4-1) installed usbmuxd (1.0.7-2) installed libimobiledevice (1.1.1-2) upgraded upower (0.9.12-1 -> 0.9.14-1) upgraded libcanberra (0.28-1 -> 0.28-2) installed lib32-libffi (3.0.10-1) upgraded lib32-glib2 (2.28.8-1 -> 2.30.0-1) upgraded lib32-ncurses (5.7-6 -> 5.9-1) upgraded lib32-openssl (1.0.0.e-1 -> 1.0.0.e-2) upgraded libass (0.9.13-1 -> 0.10.0-1) upgraded libburn (1.1.4-1 -> 1.1.6-1) upgraded libgweather (3.0.2-1 -> 3.2.0-1) upgraded libisofs (1.1.4-1 -> 1.1.6-1) installed json-c (0.9-1) upgraded libpulse (0.9.23-1 -> 1.0-3) upgraded libwebkit (1.4.3-1 -> 1.6.1-1) upgraded mkinitcpio (0.7.2-1 -> 0.7.4-1) upgraded linux (3.0.4-1 -> 3.0.6-2) upgraded mpfr (3.0.1.p4-2 -> 3.1.0.p1-1) upgraded mtr (0.80-2 -> 0.81-1) upgraded net-tools (1.60-18 -> 1.60.20110819cvs-1) upgraded pygobject2-devel (2.28.6-1 -> 2.28.6-4) upgraded python2-gobject2 (2.28.6-1 -> 2.28.6-4) upgraded python2-pyenchant (1.6.3-5 -> 1.6.5-1) upgraded python-nose (1.0.0-4 -> 1.1.2-2) upgraded tumbler (0.1.22-1 -> 0.1.22-2) upgraded xfce4-settings (4.8.2-1 -> 4.8.3-1) upgraded xorg-xinit (1.3.0-3 -> 1.3.1-1) upgraded xfce-utils (4.8.2-1 -> 4.8.3-1) upgraded xfwm4 (4.8.1-1 -> 4.8.2-1)
the other 200ish packages I'm confident were not responsible. If anyone can clear any of the remaining suspects please do.
The point I was trying to make when I started this thread was that there are a small group of features frequently being broken for a not insignificant number of users and if packages that could be doing the damage where set to require a more assertive update process they could be deferred until users have time to get it right life would be sweeter.
Since some of your loss was usb mounting etc, you may have missed a package to consider [udev].
[2011-10-19 22:39] ATTENTION UDEV: [2011-10-19 22:39] ---------- [2011-10-19 22:39] We now use upstream rules for assigning devices to the 'disk', 'optical', [2011-10-19 22:39] 'scanner' and 'video' groups. Beware of any changes. [2011-10-19 22:39] -- [2011-10-19 22:39] We no longer create symlinks from /dev/<dev> to /dev/<dev>0. [2011-10-19 22:39] -- [2011-10-19 22:39] For security reasons, we no longer add devices to the 'storage' group. Use [2011-10-19 22:39] udisks and friends, or add custom rules to /etc/udev.d/rules/, if you want [2011-10-19 22:39] this functionality back.
The message above is from my pacman.log. It clearly notes there were changes made to the way things were handled by udev and those rules were changed to match the "upstream rules". That makes Arch closer to the other distros. There are times when moving closer to upstream causes problems and complaints because it changes/modifies the Arch Way. However the Arch Way of KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid - where I come from, still works the best.
About shutting down from the desktop, view this page in the Arch wiki ( https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Allow_Users_to_Shutdown ). It gives different ways to make this work.
I have to agree with Oon-Ee Ng, Dwight Schauer and others who make the point about updating. You have to update more often than every three weeks otherwise you're asking for a broken system.
I disagree with your statement "I did make a mistake when I chose Arch". You just have to accept not everything is set up to hold ones hand like Debian and its' spawn. With Arch I can fix a broken system without reinstalling. I'm currently running a system where I blew the pacman database away and recovered from it thanks to the Arch Way and the Arch wiki. Dis'ing Arch for these types of errors is just wrong. I've seen plenty of comments around the web about the Arch Wiki being the best place to find information.
Please don't complain when the answers you get aren't the ones you want, try to use them to work through your problems.
-- Life's fun when your sick and psychotic!