I'll have to download a newer copy of the talking arch disk among other things that takes account of pacstrap and uses the arch scripts rather than the framework to install archlinux. The braille instructions I made are also outdated so I'll fix that after some reading. Earlier this morning I got through the partitioning and formatting of a hard drive and since the material I have on archlinux on this end is that outdated, I decided to install debian on the large hard drive only archlinux could install on earlier. Debian would always thrash the disk before. This time no disk thrashing. Apparently use of archlinux to give debian some clues worked. I'll put archlinux on some of my smaller drives in the future when I figure out how to do that now that the talking archlinux I have no longer finds grub to install it. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Hardware eventually fails; software eventually works, no amount of band width can fix poor design Jude <jdashiel-at-shellworld-dot-net> <http://www.shellworld.net/~jdashiel/nj.html>