Hello all, Today I installed Arch on my desktop which previously had Fedora. All works well except ssh -X zita2 emacs where zita2 is my laptop. It works, but it is ex tre me ly slow, I can count the lines being displayed when scrolling a page. This used to work perfectly before. Other apps doing quite intensive X work don't seem to be affected. OTOH, the emacs running on the laptop is of course the same as before. Video driver is 'nv', but it doesn't show up in lsmod. Some others do: 'drm' and 'ttm' which I haven't seen before. As far as I was able to find out, 'drm' is related to 3D-acceleration. I don't need nor want this, and I'm suspecting it could be related to the problem I'm seeing. Any hints/help will be appreciated ! Ciao, -- FA O tu, che porte, correndo si ? E guerra e morte !
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 11:50 PM, <fons@kokkinizita.net> wrote:
Hello all,
Today I installed Arch on my desktop which previously had Fedora. All works well except
ssh -X zita2 emacs
where zita2 is my laptop.
It works, but it is ex tre me ly slow, I can count the lines being displayed when scrolling a page. This used to work perfectly before. Other apps doing quite intensive X work don't seem to be affected. OTOH, the emacs running on the laptop is of course the same as before.
Video driver is 'nv', but it doesn't show up in lsmod. Some others do: 'drm' and 'ttm' which I haven't seen before. As far as I was able to find out, 'drm' is related to 3D-acceleration. I don't need nor want this, and I'm suspecting it could be related to the problem I'm seeing.
Any hints/help will be appreciated !
Are you sure you were using nv on fedora ? nv is indeed extremely slow. Fedora 11 apparently used nouveau as default : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NouveauAsDefault You can also install it easily on Arch, just have a look at http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Nouveau
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:27:26AM +0100, Xavier Chantry wrote:
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 11:50 PM, <fons@kokkinizita.net> wrote:
Hello all,
Today I installed Arch on my desktop which previously had Fedora. All works well except
ssh -X zita2 emacs
where zita2 is my laptop.
It works, but it is ex tre me ly slow, I can count the lines being displayed when scrolling a page. This used to work perfectly before. Other apps doing quite intensive X work don't seem to be affected. OTOH, the emacs running on the laptop is of course the same as before.
Video driver is 'nv', but it doesn't show up in lsmod. Some others do: 'drm' and 'ttm' which I haven't seen before. As far as I was able to find out, 'drm' is related to 3D-acceleration. I don't need nor want this, and I'm suspecting it could be related to the problem I'm seeing.
Any hints/help will be appreciated !
Are you sure you were using nv on fedora ? nv is indeed extremely slow. Fedora 11 apparently used nouveau as default : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NouveauAsDefault You can also install it easily on Arch, just have a look at http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Nouveau
It is the 'ssh -X zita2 emacs' that is very slow. Running emacs locally is perfectly OK. The previous install was F9, it used nv, and the same 'ssh -X zita2 emacs' worked perfectly. Nothing has changed on zita2. As far as I can see, the Arch installation tries to enable 3D-acceleration by installing 'drm'. I don't want it. How can it be disabled ? Ciao, -- FA O tu, che porte, correndo si ? E guerra e morte !
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:04 AM, <fons@kokkinizita.net> wrote:
It is the 'ssh -X zita2 emacs' that is very slow. Running emacs locally is perfectly OK. The previous install was F9, it used nv, and the same 'ssh -X zita2 emacs' worked perfectly. Nothing has changed on zita2.
As far as I can see, the Arch installation tries to enable 3D-acceleration by installing 'drm'. I don't want it. How can it be disabled ?
It seems I read your mail too quickly. But if only apps through ssh are slow, why would you suspect video driver, and not network / ssh speed ? And why would 3d acceleration make your X-forwarded 2d app slow ? By the way, you have no 3d-accel at all with nv, just very basic 2d. And afaik drm does not do anything on its own. It just provides the core of graphic drivers, like nouveau for instance. nv does not use it either. And there is no reason for using nv nowadays, nouveau does better in every aspect ! and nouveau does rely on drm so you will want to keep that. That said you can blacklist whatever you want, just have a look at /etc/rc.conf. You could also try blacklisting your network driver, I am sure it will make everything much faster :)
2010/1/25 Xavier Chantry <chantry.xavier@gmail.com>:
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:04 AM, <fons@kokkinizita.net> wrote:
It is the 'ssh -X zita2 emacs' that is very slow. Running emacs locally is perfectly OK. The previous install was F9, it used nv, and the same 'ssh -X zita2 emacs' worked perfectly. Nothing has changed on zita2.
As far as I can see, the Arch installation tries to enable 3D-acceleration by installing 'drm'. I don't want it. How can it be disabled ?
It seems I read your mail too quickly. But if only apps through ssh are slow, why would you suspect video driver, and not network / ssh speed ?
And why would 3d acceleration make your X-forwarded 2d app slow ?
By the way, you have no 3d-accel at all with nv, just very basic 2d. And afaik drm does not do anything on its own. It just provides the core of graphic drivers, like nouveau for instance. nv does not use it either. And there is no reason for using nv nowadays, nouveau does better in every aspect ! and nouveau does rely on drm so you will want to keep that.
That said you can blacklist whatever you want, just have a look at /etc/rc.conf. You could also try blacklisting your network driver, I am sure it will make everything much faster :)
This is what has always happened ever since I started living on mobile broadband, and with a local ISP that has a fat 12Mbps (100 at "partner sites") pipe but latencies at which you can never win an online gameplay. Load up a live Fedora and see if you can't reproduce this, in which case we would have something to work on. -- GPG/PGP ID: B42DDCAD
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 02:18:42AM +0100, Xavier Chantry wrote:
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:04 AM, <fons@kokkinizita.net> wrote:
It is the 'ssh -X zita2 emacs' that is very slow. Running emacs locally is perfectly OK. The previous install was F9, it used nv, and the same 'ssh -X zita2 emacs' worked perfectly. Nothing has changed on zita2.
As far as I can see, the Arch installation tries to enable 3D-acceleration by installing 'drm'. I don't want it. How can it be disabled ?
It seems I read your mail too quickly. But if only apps through ssh are slow, why would you suspect video driver, and not network / ssh speed ?
Because they seem to be OK, e.g. transfer speed when using rsync is what is was before. Anyway the slowest part in the link is probably the wireless access point anyway. Meanwhile I installed nouveau. The only difference I notice is that now the 'visual bell' in xterm has become very slow as well (to the point of being unusable), also locally. There are some other things I noticed: (with either nv or nouveau) fons@zita1:~> ssh -X zita2 Last login: Mon Jan 25 12:26:33 2010 from zita1.kokkinizita.net fons@zita2:~> emacs Xlib: extension "RANDR" missing on display "localhost:10.0". I'm pretty sure this is installed. fons@zita2:~> qjackctl X Error: BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied) 10 Major opcode: 2 (X_ChangeWindowAttributes) Resource id: 0x119 qjackctl is a qt4 app. -- FA O tu, che porte, correndo si ? E guerra e morte !
Hi, I don't think it is a Xorg-related issue, but rather an ssh thing. I assume you added the line: X11Forwarding yes to /etc/sshd_config in your server (the laptop, as I understand). Try add the line ForwardX11Trusted yes to /etc/ssh_config (NOT sshd_config) in your client, which should be the new arch install if I am correct. I found this solved a lot of problems for me when trying to connect to a headless server (sheevaplug, or other arch servers) from my arch laptop. Bye, domanov
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 01:30:54PM +0100, Marco wrote:
I don't think it is a Xorg-related issue, but rather an ssh thing. I assume you added the line:
X11Forwarding yes
to /etc/sshd_config in your server (the laptop, as I understand).
Try add the line
ForwardX11Trusted yes
to /etc/ssh_config (NOT sshd_config) in your client, which should be the new arch install if I am correct. I found this solved a lot of problems for me when trying to connect to a headless server (sheevaplug, or other arch servers) from my arch laptop.
That solved it, many thanks ! Remains the weird visual bell with nouveau, but I'll just switch back to nv for now. -- FA O tu, che porte, correndo si ? E guerra e morte !
On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 12:46 +0100, fons@kokkinizita.net wrote:
Because they seem to be OK, e.g. transfer speed when using rsync is what is was before. Anyway the slowest part in the link is probably the wireless access point anyway.
Hmm, wireless... besides being unreliable, it's half-duplex also. You'll notice this with X11 forwarding. X11 is a bandwidth-hungry protocol. You might want to use the compression feature of SSH, that would save you a lot of network traffic. When I was out of switch ports, I added a 10Mbit hub to my network and connected one of my terminal clients to it. The result was the same as your SSH experience: slow and laggy.
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 12:46 PM, <fons@kokkinizita.net> wrote:
Meanwhile I installed nouveau. The only difference I notice is that now the 'visual bell' in xterm has become very slow as well (to the point of being unusable), also locally.
I suspect you did not install it properly and were running in noaccel mode. But since you solved your ssh X forwarding problem, and are happy with nv, you can keep using that. If you are still curious about nouveau, you have to install nouveau-drm, xf86-video-nouveau (and nouveau-firmware if you have a GF8 or newer), edit xorg.conf , and then provide dmesg and Xorg logs.
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 04:11:11PM +0100, Xavier Chantry wrote:
I suspect you did not install it properly and were running in noaccel mode. But since you solved your ssh X forwarding problem, and are happy with nv, you can keep using that. If you are still curious about nouveau, you have to install nouveau-drm, xf86-video-nouveau (and nouveau-firmware if you have a GF8 or newer), edit xorg.conf,
That is exactly what I did. About the noaccel mode, if that is the default you could be right. There was an option in the xorg.conf (generated by X -configure) about that, but it was disabled. I did not find any information about options for nouveau in the Arch wikis or any other places. Apart from that, I don't see why even an unaccelerated driver would require a second or so to slowly swap foreground and background, going from the top of a window to the bottom, and one more second again to undo that. A single fillrectangle with xor action does that faster than you can see it. Finding out that 'X11ForwardTrusted' was not just about authentication but could actually impact speed *was* as surprise !! Ciao, -- FA O tu, che porte, correndo si ? E guerra e morte !
participants (5)
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fons＠kokkinizita.net
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Jan de Groot
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Marco
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Ray Rashif
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Xavier Chantry