[arch-general] HAL dependencies
I've recently started using Xorg 1.8 from the [xorg18] repo to finally be able to get rid of HAL. Xorg is working fine, but I want to remove the remaining packages that depend on HAL. It looks like there are only 3: gnome-vfs, gstreamer0.10-good-plugins, and vlc. I can use ABS to rebuild these without HAL, but I'm concerned that these packages may actually need it. Has anyone else stripped HAL completely out of their Arch install? -- The world is full of tough guys. It doesn't need me to be one, too.
Am 18.04.2010 01:22, schrieb Rob Bean:
It looks like there are only 3: gnome-vfs, gstreamer0.10-good-plugins, and vlc. I can use ABS to rebuild these without HAL, but I'm concerned that these packages may actually need it.
From short discussions with Jan, I determined that the HAL dependency can probably be safely removed from all of those.
Has anyone else stripped HAL completely out of their Arch install?
Would be too nice, but it looks like KDE 4.5 won't be HAL-free yet and we'll have to wait for 4.6 - so I will keep HAL around for at least half a year.
Ok. I'm just going to rebuild them and see what happens. :) On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org>wrote:
Am 18.04.2010 01:22, schrieb Rob Bean:
It looks like there are only 3: gnome-vfs, gstreamer0.10-good-plugins, and vlc. I can use ABS to rebuild these without HAL, but I'm concerned that these packages may actually need it.
From short discussions with Jan, I determined that the HAL dependency can probably be safely removed from all of those.
Has anyone else stripped HAL completely out of their Arch install?
Would be too nice, but it looks like KDE 4.5 won't be HAL-free yet and we'll have to wait for 4.6 - so I will keep HAL around for at least half a year.
-- The world is full of tough guys. It doesn't need me to be one, too.
Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org> wrote:
Has anyone else stripped HAL completely out of their Arch install?
Would be too nice, but it looks like KDE 4.5 won't be HAL-free yet and we'll have to wait for 4.6 - so I will keep HAL around for at least half a year.
The important question is: by what will hal replaced? If it is replaced by similar software and if the design flaws in the linux kernel that support problem with hal are not fixed, then I expect basically the same problems as before (note that I am only speaking about CD/DVD/BD recording related issues). Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
On Sunday 18 April 2010 12:05:00 Joerg Schilling wrote:
Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org> wrote:
Has anyone else stripped HAL completely out of their Arch install?
Would be too nice, but it looks like KDE 4.5 won't be HAL-free yet and we'll have to wait for 4.6 - so I will keep HAL around for at least half a year.
The important question is: by what will hal replaced?
UDev
If it is replaced by similar software and if the design flaws in the
linux
kernel that support problem with hal are not fixed, then I expect basically the same problems as before (note that I am only speaking about CD/DVD/BD recording related issues).
You can't take a single high level fault as a indication of a whole software stacks uselessness. Hal works well for me - in that it does what I want. UDev, which hal is build upon, has been around for ages and works fine creating the device nodes for all your mounting needs :) And anyway, if there is this major design flaw in the linux kernel that stops you writing CDs and other media, you need to say what it is, and why they should spend time, which is likely to be considerable, due to the fact that architectural changes implemented at the maintenance stage will always be the largest, fixing a fault that annoys you, and I have never noticed... -- Laurie Clark-Michalek
"Laurie Clark-Michalek" <bluepeppers@archlinux.us> wrote:
The important question is: by what will hal replaced?
UDev
Note that people have been talking about Xorg which is a highly portable project. So this is most likely not correct as e.g. Solaris has no udev and will never introduce udev. There is the /devices filesystem since 1992...
If it is replaced by similar software and if the design flaws in the linux kernel that support problem with hal are not fixed, then I expect basically the same problems as before (note that I am only speaking about CD/DVD/BD recording related issues).
You can't take a single high level fault as a indication of a whole software stacks uselessness. Hal works well for me - in that it does
This is an important design fault and as it has not been fixed for many years, it at least let's me asume that the people behind hal are not interested in their users. They developed hal without looking at existing software and without fixing the problems they created with this development model.
what I want. UDev, which hal is build upon, has been around for ages and works fine creating the device nodes for all your mounting needs :) And anyway, if there is this major design flaw in the linux kernel that stops you writing CDs and other media, you need to say what it is, and why they should spend time, which is likely to be considerable, due to the fact that architectural changes implemented at the maintenance stage will always be the largest, fixing a fault that annoys you, and I have never noticed...
On Solaris, hald is built on top of the state detection code inside the "sd" device driver and the problems seen on Linux to not exist on Solaris. Does this mean that the problems found with hald on Linux are caused by bugs in udev? Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
Am 20.04.2010 13:01, schrieb Joerg Schilling:
"Laurie Clark-Michalek" <bluepeppers@archlinux.us> wrote:
The important question is: by what will hal replaced?
UDev
Note that people have been talking about Xorg which is a highly portable project. So this is most likely not correct as e.g. Solaris has no udev and will never introduce udev. There is the /devices filesystem since 1992...
There is still the possibility for a hal backend in Xorg. And I think the goal was to add system-specific backends for input devices. Obviously, udev is only relevant for Linux.
You can't take a single high level fault as a indication of a whole software stacks uselessness. Hal works well for me - in that it does
This is an important design fault and as it has not been fixed for many years, it at least let's me asume that the people behind hal are not interested in their users. They developed hal without looking at existing software and without fixing the problems they created with this development model.
You didn't even mention WHAT is a design fault. But frankly, I don't care, as this is neither the topic here, nor is it the right place to complain about design faults in Linux or HAL.
On Solaris, hald is built on top of the state detection code inside the "sd" device driver and the problems seen on Linux to not exist on Solaris. Does this mean that the problems found with hald on Linux are caused by bugs in udev?
Again, I have no idea what particular problem exists in Linux that doesn't in Solaris, as you didn't even mention that. But again, this is not the place to discuss about Solaris or Linux design. Especially not about Solaris, as it is entirely on topic here. I would urge you to either discuss the topic, which is eliminating HAL dependencies in Arch Linux packaging, or not discuss at all. As you don't seem to have anything to say about Arch Linux packaging, I suggest you do the latter.
Am 20.04.2010 13:22, schrieb Thomas Bächler:
Again, I have no idea what particular problem exists in Linux that doesn't in Solaris, as you didn't even mention that. But again, this is not the place to discuss about Solaris or Linux design. Especially not about Solaris, as it is entirely on topic here.
Obviously, not "on topic" but "off topic".
You didn't even mention WHAT is a design fault. But frankly, I don't care, as this is neither the topic here, nor is it the right place to complain about design faults in Linux or HAL.
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/hal/2008-May/011560.html
Hi, On my system. HAL is requried by gnome-vfs, gstreamer0.10-good-plugins, handbrake, kdelibs, picasa-beta, vlc, xbmc It seems Migration would take a long time Gaurish
On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 02:15 +0530, Gaurish Sharma wrote:
Hi, On my system. HAL is requried by gnome-vfs, gstreamer0.10-good-plugins, handbrake, kdelibs, picasa-beta, vlc, xbmc
It seems Migration would take a long time
That's been covered in the prior discussion. KDE is the most likely to hold things up, I believe, based on the same prior discussion.
On Sun, 2010-04-18 at 01:33 +0200, Thomas Bächler wrote:
It looks like there are only 3: gnome-vfs, gstreamer0.10-good-plugins, and vlc. I can use ABS to rebuild these without HAL, but I'm concerned
Am 18.04.2010 01:22, schrieb Rob Bean: that
these packages may actually need it.
From short discussions with Jan, I determined that the HAL dependency can probably be safely removed from all of those.
gstreamer0.10-good-plugins has been fixed in SVN. I might actually add pulseaudio support to that soon though, so a final rebuild can take time. vlc, no idea about that, but I guess it can do without automatic media detection. gnome-vfs will keep the hal dependency. It's a deprecated library for deprecated applications. Losing removable media support for deprecated applications is not an option to me. The GNOME goal is to get rid of gnome-vfs, so after a while this library will be gone from your system completely. Note that though you still have hal installed on your system, it's not needed to start it if you don't (want to) use it. I stopped hal on all my systems as I don't use it anymore.
On 04/18/2010 12:22 AM, Rob Bean wrote:
I've recently started using Xorg 1.8 from the [xorg18] repo to finally be able to get rid of HAL. Xorg is working fine, but I want to remove the remaining packages that depend on HAL.
It looks like there are only 3: gnome-vfs, gstreamer0.10-good-plugins, and vlc. I can use ABS to rebuild these without HAL, but I'm concerned that these packages may actually need it.
Has anyone else stripped HAL completely out of their Arch install?
My guess is that it is going to take a good while to get rid of hal for most of us. In my system 'pacman -Qi hal' reports exo, gnome-vfs, handbrake, pcmanfm, thunar, vlc and xorg-server as requiring hal. The new xorg-server does not depend on hal, it seems gnome-vfs and vlc can do with it too, but the others I don't know and my guess is that if they are really needed, it may take a while until upstream changes that.
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 16:22:28 -0700, Rob Bean <papabean@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone else stripped HAL completely out of their Arch install?
Thats exactly why heresy was started. ( http://hereticlinux.org/ ) Its archlinux minus hal/dbus/rapekit. Search the list for "Whats wrong with dbus anyway" under the thread "xf86-input-evdev conflicts with xorg-server. Remove xorg-server" Also gnomies please read that thread before responding to this messages again. It has all been said, and settled.
On 04/18/10 10:13, Arvid Picciani wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 16:22:28 -0700, Rob Bean<papabean@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone else stripped HAL completely out of their Arch install?
Thats exactly why heresy was started. ( http://hereticlinux.org/ ) Its archlinux minus hal/dbus/rapekit. Search the list for "Whats wrong with dbus anyway" under the thread "xf86-input-evdev conflicts with xorg-server. Remove xorg-server"
findable here: http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2009-December/009351.htm...
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Isaac Dupree < ml@isaac.cedarswampstudios.org> wrote:
On 04/18/10 10:13, Arvid Picciani wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 16:22:28 -0700, Rob Bean<papabean@gmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone else stripped HAL completely out of their Arch install?
Thats exactly why heresy was started. ( http://hereticlinux.org/ ) Its archlinux minus hal/dbus/rapekit. Search the list for "Whats wrong with dbus anyway" under the thread "xf86-input-evdev conflicts with xorg-server. Remove xorg-server"
findable here:
http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2009-December/009351.htm...
I stopped reading after the 35th?? 36th?? post in that thread before I realized the whole things about dbus. I have no opinion about dbus and it can remain installed. I wanted to get rid of hal and I have. -- The world is full of tough guys. It doesn't need me to be one, too.
participants (11)
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Arvid Picciani
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Gaurish Sharma
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Isaac Dupree
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Jan de Groot
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Joerg.Schilling＠fokus.fraunhofer.de
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Laurie Clark-Michalek
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Mauro Santos
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Muhammed Uluyol
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Ng Oon-Ee
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Rob Bean
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Thomas Bächler