Re: [arch-general] [arch-dev-public] systemd 216 coming soon to testing
Hi, [sorry for cross-posting] On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 02:25:24PM -0400, Dave Reisner wrote:
Full NEWS file:
This changelog says that: * journald will no longer forward all local data to another running syslog daemon. This change has been made because rsyslog (which appears to be the most commonly used syslog implementation these days) no longer makes use of this, and instead pulls the data out of the journal on its own. Since forwarding the messages to a non-existent syslog server is more expensive than we assumed we have now turned this off. If you run a syslog server that is not a recent rsyslog version, you have to turn this option on again (ForwardToSyslog= in journald.conf). This is going to break syslog-ng... So is it possible to patch journald.conf and enable ForwardToSyslog in the package? Thanks, -- Leonid Isaev GPG fingerprints: DA92 034D B4A8 EC51 7EA6 20DF 9291 EE8A 043C B8C4 C0DF 20D0 C075 C3F1 E1BE 775A A7AE F6CB 164B 5A6D
On 08/20, Leonid Isaev wrote:
This changelog says that: * journald will no longer forward all local data to another running syslog daemon. This change has been made because rsyslog (which appears to be the most commonly used syslog implementation these days) no longer makes use of this, and instead pulls the data out of the journal on its own. Since forwarding the messages to a non-existent syslog server is more expensive than we assumed we have now turned this off. If you run a syslog server that is not a recent rsyslog version, you have to turn this option on again (ForwardToSyslog= in journald.conf).
This is going to break syslog-ng... So is it possible to patch journald.conf and enable ForwardToSyslog in the package?
Thanks,
It seems this is just a change in the default settings, nothing more. Right now journald.conf contains two defaults that will be affected by this: - Storage=auto - ForwardToSyslog=yes "Storage=auto" means journald will only record logging data to the systemd journal if the directory /var/log/journal exists; "ForwardToSyslog=yes" means journald will forward all data to any existing system logger such as syslog-ng regardless of whether there's a system logger running or not, and regardless of whether the systemd journal is saved or not. The update just means that from now on, the default is the opposite---the systemd journal is enabled by default, log forwarding is not. Just switch it back to your preferred logging method. -- "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 10:21:49AM -0500, Bigby James wrote:
On 08/20, Leonid Isaev wrote:
This changelog says that: * journald will no longer forward all local data to another running syslog daemon. This change has been made because rsyslog (which appears to be the most commonly used syslog implementation these days) no longer makes use of this, and instead pulls the data out of the journal on its own. Since forwarding the messages to a non-existent syslog server is more expensive than we assumed we have now turned this off. If you run a syslog server that is not a recent rsyslog version, you have to turn this option on again (ForwardToSyslog= in journald.conf).
This is going to break syslog-ng... So is it possible to patch journald.conf and enable ForwardToSyslog in the package?
Thanks,
It seems this is just a change in the default settings, nothing more.
I know, but not everyone follows systemd-devel. So, just updating systemd would lead to syslog "mysteriously" not logging anything... [rant] Besides, I don't understand the motivation that rsyslog "pulls the data out of the journal on its own". If this is via the "imjournal" module, then it's a bogus argument because even the official documentation basically discourages the use of this module. [/tant] [1] http://www.rsyslog.com/doc/imjournal.html Cheers, -- Leonid Isaev GPG fingerprints: DA92 034D B4A8 EC51 7EA6 20DF 9291 EE8A 043C B8C4 C0DF 20D0 C075 C3F1 E1BE 775A A7AE F6CB 164B 5A6D
It seems this is just a change in the default settings, nothing more.
I know, but not everyone follows systemd-devel. So, just updating systemd would lead to syslog "mysteriously" not logging anything...
Sure, *if* you didn't already explicity set journald to use an external logging daemon. If you did, then the update is just going to create a *.pacnew file that can be deleted. In other words, the problem is improper configuration on the part of the user, not impropriety on the part of upstream. I use syslog-ng myself, and it seems to me that if I'm going to be deviating from the defaults set by upstream and the Arch devs then it falls to me to pay attention to these things. No offense, but asking the devs to change the default behavior of a package to satisfy a minority, who couldn't be bothered to change two lines themselves at some point in the last couple years, is unfair. -- "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 11:56:06AM -0500, Bigby James wrote:
It seems this is just a change in the default settings, nothing more.
I know, but not everyone follows systemd-devel. So, just updating systemd would lead to syslog "mysteriously" not logging anything...
Sure, *if* you didn't already explicity set journald to use an external logging daemon. If you did, then the update is just going to create a *.pacnew file that can be deleted. In other words, the problem is improper configuration on the part of the user, not impropriety on the part of upstream.
I use syslog-ng myself, and it seems to me that if I'm going to be deviating from the defaults set by upstream and the Arch devs then it falls to me to pay
Using syslog-ng is not "deviating from the defaults". So far the default was to send things to _a_ syslog -- no modification of journald.conf was required (check the old manpages). Therefore, you won't get a pacnew file, and the new config will be quietly put in place, breaking existing installations for no valid technical reason. Anyway, let's not argue about the semantics, it's not a big deal of course. Hopefully, this thread saves someone a bit of hairpulling :) Cheers, -- Leonid Isaev GPG fingerprints: DA92 034D B4A8 EC51 7EA6 20DF 9291 EE8A 043C B8C4 C0DF 20D0 C075 C3F1 E1BE 775A A7AE F6CB 164B 5A6D
On Thursday 21 Aug 2014 13:40:48 Leonid Isaev wrote:
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 11:56:06AM -0500, Bigby James wrote:
It seems this is just a change in the default settings, nothing more.
I know, but not everyone follows systemd-devel. So, just updating systemd would lead to syslog "mysteriously" not logging anything...
Sure, *if* you didn't already explicity set journald to use an external logging daemon. If you did, then the update is just going to create a *.pacnew file that can be deleted. In other words, the problem is improper configuration on the part of the user, not impropriety on the part of upstream.
I use syslog-ng myself, and it seems to me that if I'm going to be deviating from the defaults set by upstream and the Arch devs then it falls to me to pay Using syslog-ng is not "deviating from the defaults". So far the default was to send things to _a_ syslog -- no modification of journald.conf was required (check the old manpages).
If I remember correctly, when the switch to systemd was first made, the migration guide on the wiki did in fact talk the user through forwarding the journal to syslog-ng by modifying some config files. Paul
On 22-08-14 11:07, Paul Gideon Dann wrote:
If I remember correctly, when the switch to systemd was first made, the migration guide on the wiki did in fact talk the user through forwarding the journal to syslog-ng by modifying some config files. Paul
I'm 99% sure that those changes had to be made in syslog-ng config files , NOT in systemd config files. Best way to handle this change seems to me to show a message when upgrading / installing systemd 216. LW
participants (4)
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Bigby James
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Leonid Isaev
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LoneVVolf
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Paul Gideon Dann