[arch-general] Arch should be apolitical

Amir Fletcher

1 Jun 2020 1 Jun '20

11:18 p.m.

Arch Linux is a fantastic distribution. It should remain exactly that: a computer operating system for technical users. Politics should not be part of the project. Recently, the Arch reddit logo was changed to a rainbow. This is for "pride month". It is forcing a political view on all of the users who did not ask for this. Many of us don't care about the views of the developers or moderators as long as we continue to enjoy Arch. When this was brought up, the moderator silenced the criticism and deleted the thread. https://old.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/gutcxb/is_arch_gay/ https://archive.is/Y9Ni1 This is where the problem begins. If we cannot even discuss disagreement with views being forced on us, what's left? Please moderators and developers, reconsider forcing your views on us and not even allowing discussion about it. We do not all share your views, but we can get along if everyone is left to their own devices. This kind of topic should not even need to be brought up. It's very disheartening to see whoever moderates that reddit doing this. We just want to use Arch. In many cultures outside of Europe or the US, this is not welcome at all. Even in those countries, not everyone wants an agenda shoved into their face.

Show replies by date

Kusoneko

1 Jun 1 Jun

11:42 p.m.

On June 1, 2020 11:18:50 PM UTC, Amir Fletcher via arch-general wrote:

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Arch Linux is a fantastic distribution. It should remain exactly that: a computer operating system for technical users. Politics should not be part of the project.

Recently, the Arch reddit logo was changed to a rainbow. This is for "pride month". It is forcing a political view on all of the users who did not ask for this. Many of us don't care about the views of the developers or moderators as long as we continue to enjoy Arch.

When this was brought up, the moderator silenced the criticism and deleted the thread.

https://old.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/gutcxb/is_arch_gay/

https://archive.is/Y9Ni1

This is where the problem begins. If we cannot even discuss disagreement with views being forced on us, what's left? Please moderators and developers, reconsider forcing your views on us and not even allowing discussion about it. We do not all share your views, but we can get along if everyone is left to their own devices.

This kind of topic should not even need to be brought up. It's very disheartening to see whoever moderates that reddit doing this. We just want to use Arch. In many cultures outside of Europe or the US, this is not welcome at all. Even in those countries, not everyone wants an agenda shoved into their face.

I agree with Amir on this. This is an operating system, supposedly free from "corporate actions", where for PR reasons a company would "support" pride months and other political events. The developers, maintainers, moderators and trusted users can support whatever politics they want, as publicly as they want, but the OS itself and all official channels for the OS should remain free from political statements, agendas and actions. Similarly, censorship of dissenting opinions is not a good look for any community such as Arch. As Amir stated above, outside of western countries most countries are strictly against LGBT+ stuff, to the point where being a part of it is a death sentence, and supporting it publicly can be dangerous. Forcing any sort of political agenda like this onto an OS carries danger for it's users located in such countries.

Eli Schwartz

2 Jun 2 Jun

12:17 a.m.

On 6/1/20 7:42 PM, Kusoneko wrote:

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I agree with Amir on this. This is an operating system, supposedly free from "corporate actions", where for PR reasons a company would "support" pride months and other political events. The developers, maintainers, moderators and trusted users can support whatever politics they want, as publicly as they want, but the OS itself and all official channels for the OS should remain free from political statements, agendas and actions.

Reddit is not an official channel for the OS, please discuss this with the unaffiliated entities in charge of said unaffiliated community. (Also reddit sucks and always has, but that's because it's a meme-ridden pit of people doing strange things, engaging in offtopic stream-of-consciousness randomness, and unmoderated help vampires. Also it implements the dreaded "like"/"upvoting" methodology of community interaction. Need I say more?) Problem solved. Let's dance to celebrate. ^('-')^ ^('-')^ v('-')v v('-')v <('-'<) (>'-')> <('-'<) (>'-')> B A -- Eli Schwartz Bug Wrangler and Trusted User

Ricardo Band

1 Jun 1 Jun

11:43 p.m.

On June 1, 2020 11:18:50 PM UTC, Amir Fletcher via arch-general wrote:

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Recently, the Arch reddit logo was changed to a rainbow. This is for "pride month". It is forcing a political view on all of the users who did not ask for this. I'm sorry but why do you care about the damn logo? And since when has the sexual identity anything to do with politics? It's a rainbow, not a swastika. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

riveravaldez

2 Jun 2 Jun

12:06 a.m.

Equality and freedom of genre/sex decisions is not politics, it's just basic human rights. Or, it is politics, and then everything is politics. Also, to look in other direction and ignore social issues is also a political stance, and the free software is extremely sociopolitical... Anyway. Politics seem unavoidable, specially in this times, so, as far as it doesn't become spam, don't see a way to make it disappear. Just try to cope with it and go forward. Best regards. *sorry for TP, but this was not a response to nothing in specific On 6/1/20, Ricardo Band wrote:

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On June 1, 2020 11:18:50 PM UTC, Amir Fletcher via arch-general wrote:

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Recently, the Arch reddit logo was changed to a rainbow. This is for "pride month". It is forcing a political view on all of the users who did not ask for this. I'm sorry but why do you care about the damn logo? And since when has the sexual identity anything to do with politics? It's a rainbow, not a swastika. -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Rasmus Liland

2:19 a.m.

On 2020-06-01 21:06 -0300, riveravaldez wrote:

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Equality and freedom of genre/sex decisions is not politics, it's just basic human rights.

Human rights is also a very fragile political construct invented by the United Nations perhaps only achievable under certain conditions. Perhaps it might not work so well/make sense out in a desert ruled by complex clan structures and religion for thousands of years.

Olivier Langlois

4:53 a.m.

The rainbow is the symbol of the universal religion that globalists wants to impose on all nations. I have seen it all over the place during the Covid lockdown and I have made a very negative association to it due to the circumstances. Yes it is political. It is associated with a philosophy and an ideology that I disagree with. I am offended by the fact that the ideology behind the symbol is promoted in an organization that should otherwise be strictly technical. Sexual orientation should be a personal and private choice. I don't want to know what are the Arch forums admins orientation is when I come to the forum to discuss Linux matters. IMO, ArchLinux websites and forums should be kept neutral as it isn't the place to push that type of values. https://thenationalpulse.com/wp-content/uploads/DragQueenStoryHourScreenshot... Can you see that this type of event cannot be in line with the values of many ArchLinux users? My intent here is to signify my opinion on the topic. I don't want to argue more on it but I guess it is safe to assume that many users share the same feelings on the issue. Please keep ArchLinux apolitical. Thank you to have read my grievance On Tue, 2020-06-02 at 04:19 +0200, Rasmus Liland via arch-general wrote:

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On 2020-06-01 21:06 -0300, riveravaldez wrote:

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Equality and freedom of genre/sex decisions is not politics, it's just basic human rights.

Human rights is also a very fragile political construct invented by the United Nations perhaps only achievable under certain conditions. Perhaps it might not work so well/make sense out in a desert ruled by complex clan structures and religion for thousands of years.

Amish

5:11 a.m.

I am also of opinion that Arch should be neutral and should not promote (or demote) what is not going to help in Arch development. There are contributors from all over the world who may or may not be of the same opinion as moderators or others. This is not about Reddit and not about LGBT rights either. It is about avoiding unnecessary conflicts. We should stick to Arch only and no other topics should be discussed or debated. For example, just this Reddit logo thing, has triggered so many e-mails, which in noway is going to be of any help for Arch development. Regards Amish. On 02/06/20 10:23 am, Olivier Langlois wrote:

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The rainbow is the symbol of the universal religion that globalists wants to impose on all nations. I have seen it all over the place during the Covid lockdown and I have made a very negative association to it due to the circumstances.

Yes it is political. It is associated with a philosophy and an ideology that I disagree with. I am offended by the fact that the ideology behind the symbol is promoted in an organization that should otherwise be strictly technical.

Sexual orientation should be a personal and private choice. I don't want to know what are the Arch forums admins orientation is when I come to the forum to discuss Linux matters.

IMO, ArchLinux websites and forums should be kept neutral as it isn't the place to push that type of values.

https://thenationalpulse.com/wp-content/uploads/DragQueenStoryHourScreenshot...

Can you see that this type of event cannot be in line with the values of many ArchLinux users?

My intent here is to signify my opinion on the topic. I don't want to argue more on it but I guess it is safe to assume that many users share the same feelings on the issue.

Please keep ArchLinux apolitical.

Thank you to have read my grievance

On Tue, 2020-06-02 at 04:19 +0200, Rasmus Liland via arch-general wrote:

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Equality and freedom of genre/sex decisions is not politics, it's just basic human rights. Human rights is also a very fragile political construct invented by the United Nations

On 2020-06-01 21:06 -0300, riveravaldez wrote: perhaps only achievable under certain conditions. Perhaps it might not work so well/make sense out in a desert ruled by complex clan structures and religion for thousands of years.

Robin Martijn

7:03 a.m.

Without responding to anyone specific and only to put in my two-penny worth: The only place where the logo was changed to a rainbow, was on Reddit. There, someone made a post which, based on solely the title, sounds fairly like a meme indeed. This was removed because of that reason. When I go to the subreddit itself however, the top post is exactly about this subject: https://old.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/guvm7x/a_quick_thank_you_for_the... And even though the post is very positive, there are also many replies that are written by skeptical people who also think that Arch should not be involved with politics or statements in any way. And guess what, that's fine. I wouldn't say that you are being censored and I think the amount of e-mails on this subject is unreasonable, considering the fact that the conversation is already ongoing on the platform about which you complain.

Sotir Danailov

7:13 a.m.

On 2.6.2020 г. 10:03, Robin Martijn wrote:

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I wouldn't say that you are being censored and I think the amount of e-mails on this subject is unreasonable This is so ironic. Why is it unreasonable? It is a very good topic to discuss anywhere. Also, people shouldn't forget that the LGBT community has a flag. How is that not political? I support them, but I don't support what happens every year on "pride day".

m.

8:26 a.m.

On Tue, 02 Jun 2020 00:53:02 -0400 Olivier Langlois wrote:

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Please keep ArchLinux apolitical.

Every technical decision is political. Infrastructures shape habits and lives of those who use them, facilitate certain uses, render possible certain actions, while make more difficult other ones. For instance if you center your efforts in GUI, you benefit some social groups over other, the same if you propose only CLI, just as whether you have installer or not. If you assume that people will have all round fast bandwidth to use your soft - is politics, if you assume they have smartphones - this is politics too, if you assume they have two hands, they can see... All of that is politics.

Ralf Mardorf

8:49 a.m.

On Tue, 02 Jun 2020 00:53:02 -0400, Olivier Langlois wrote:

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https://thenationalpulse.com/

Isn't this a right-wing propaganda media? IIUC you are so far the only one making a political issue out of a sincere exchange of thoughts, regarding an off-topic thread. FWIW the logo has got only a single colour of the rainbow, https://www.archlinux.org/ , is this already too much rainbow colour? Is it planned to change the colour of the logo? Can you provide a link to a fact-check prove source? -- https://github.com/AnarchyLinux/installer/blob/master/extra/banner.svg Hahaha! -- On Mon, 1 Jun 2020 20:17:29 -0400, Eli Schwartz via arch-general wrote:

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Problem solved. Let's dance to celebrate.

^('-')^ ^('-')^ v('-')v v('-')v <('-'<) (>'-')> <('-'<) (>'-')> B A

or to fire into the air or what ever else is suitable for an individual.

Yaro Kasear

2:10 p.m.

On 6/2/20 3:49 AM, Ralf Mardorf via arch-general wrote:

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https://thenationalpulse.com/ Isn't this a right-wing propaganda media? IIUC you are so far

On Tue, 02 Jun 2020 00:53:02 -0400, Olivier Langlois wrote: the only one making a political issue out of a sincere exchange of thoughts, regarding an off-topic thread.

FWIW the logo has got only a single colour of the rainbow, https://www.archlinux.org/ , is this already too much rainbow colour?

Is it planned to change the colour of the logo? Can you provide a link to a fact-check prove source?

The fact this user used the term "globalist" should really tell you all you need to know about them. That's a conservative dog-whistle term for "Jew" and is usually spewed by people who listen to garbage like Alex Jones unironically. Yaro

Hanipaganda

5:58 p.m.

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:10 AM, Yaro Kasear wrote:

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On 6/2/20 3:49 AM, Ralf Mardorf via arch-general wrote:

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On Tue, 02 Jun 2020 00:53:02 -0400, Olivier Langlois wrote:

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https://thenationalpulse.com/ Isn't this a right-wing propaganda media? IIUC you are so far the only one making a political issue out of a sincere exchange of thoughts, regarding an off-topic thread.

FWIW the logo has got only a single colour of the rainbow, https://www.archlinux.org/ , is this already too much rainbow colour? Is it planned to change the colour of the logo? Can you provide a link to a fact-check prove source?

The fact this user used the term "globalist" should really tell you all you need to know about them. That's a conservative dog-whistle term for "Jew" and is usually spewed by people who listen to garbage like Alex Jones unironically.

Yaro

The country is burning with the fires of revolution as the proletariat make their stand against a capitalist bourgeoisie power structure that has systemically oppressed them for years and you are concerned about a logo change? I frankly cannot imagine the privilege one must have to not only believe this but also feel the confidence to express this in front of others during worldwide unrest.

Yaro Kasear

6 p.m.

On 6/2/20 12:58 PM, Hanipaganda via arch-general wrote:

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Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:10 AM, Yaro Kasear wrote:

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On 6/2/20 3:49 AM, Ralf Mardorf via arch-general wrote:

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On Tue, 02 Jun 2020 00:53:02 -0400, Olivier Langlois wrote:

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https://thenationalpulse.com/ Isn't this a right-wing propaganda media? IIUC you are so far the only one making a political issue out of a sincere exchange of thoughts, regarding an off-topic thread. FWIW the logo has got only a single colour of the rainbow, https://www.archlinux.org/ , is this already too much rainbow colour? Is it planned to change the colour of the logo? Can you provide a link to a fact-check prove source? The fact this user used the term "globalist" should really tell you all you need to know about them. That's a conservative dog-whistle term for "Jew" and is usually spewed by people who listen to garbage like Alex Jones unironically.

Yaro The country is burning with the fires of revolution as the proletariat make their stand against a capitalist bourgeoisie power structure that has systemically oppressed them for years and you are concerned about a logo change? I frankly cannot imagine the privilege one must have to not only believe this but also feel the confidence to express this in front of others during worldwide unrest.

I'm not concerned about the logo change. I'm in favor of it. And the situation in the United States (Not everyone on this list is in the US.) is not really relevant to this discussion. Yaro

Kusoneko

6:09 p.m.

On June 2, 2020 5:58:51 PM UTC, Hanipaganda via arch-general wrote:

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Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:10 AM, Yaro Kasear wrote:

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On 6/2/20 3:49 AM, Ralf Mardorf via arch-general wrote:

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On Tue, 02 Jun 2020 00:53:02 -0400, Olivier Langlois wrote:

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https://thenationalpulse.com/ Isn't this a right-wing propaganda media? IIUC you are so far the only one making a political issue out of a sincere exchange of thoughts, regarding an off-topic thread.

FWIW the logo has got only a single colour of the rainbow, https://www.archlinux.org/ , is this already too much rainbow

colour? > > Is it planned to change the colour of the logo? Can you provide a link > > to a fact-check prove source? > > The fact this user used the term "globalist" should really tell you all > you need to know about them. That's a conservative dog-whistle term for > "Jew" and is usually spewed by people who listen to garbage like Alex > Jones unironically. > > Yaro

The country is burning with the fires of revolution as the proletariat make their stand against a capitalist bourgeoisie power structure that has systemically oppressed them for years and you are concerned about a logo change? I frankly cannot imagine the privilege one must have to not only believe this but also feel the confidence to express this in front of others during worldwide unrest.

I cannot imagine the privilege one must have to imply that a single country's civil unrest somehow translates to worldwide unrest and should prevent people from being concerned about their own personal issues.

Yaro Kasear

6:13 p.m.

On 6/2/20 1:09 PM, Kusoneko wrote:

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On June 2, 2020 5:58:51 PM UTC, Hanipaganda via arch-general wrote:

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Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:10 AM, Yaro Kasear wrote:

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On 6/2/20 3:49 AM, Ralf Mardorf via arch-general wrote:

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On Tue, 02 Jun 2020 00:53:02 -0400, Olivier Langlois wrote:

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https://thenationalpulse.com/ Isn't this a right-wing propaganda media? IIUC you are so far the only one making a political issue out of a sincere exchange of thoughts, regarding an off-topic thread. FWIW the logo has got only a single colour of the rainbow, https://www.archlinux.org/ , is this already too much rainbow

colour? >> Is it planned to change the colour of the logo? Can you provide a link >> to a fact-check prove source? > The fact this user used the term "globalist" should really tell you all > you need to know about them. That's a conservative dog-whistle term for > "Jew" and is usually spewed by people who listen to garbage like Alex > Jones unironically. > > Yaro The country is burning with the fires of revolution as the proletariat make their stand against a capitalist bourgeoisie power structure that has systemically oppressed them for years and you are concerned about a logo change? I frankly cannot imagine the privilege one must have to not only believe this but also feel the confidence to express this in front of others during worldwide unrest.

I cannot imagine the privilege one must have to imply that a single country's civil unrest somehow translates to worldwide unrest and should prevent people from being concerned about their own personal issues.

Thing is, I *am* in the United States, and somehow I'm able to be both worried about the state of things on here AND comment on something minor. Some people seem to think you can only worry about one issue at a time. I know it wasn't you who said it, just commenting in line with your thinking, and that comment of theirs was just not terribly constructive and probably a red herring. I'm going to drop off this thread now, though. Yaro

Josef Miegl

6:26 p.m.

Please understand that this is an Arch Linux specific mailing list, i.e. it's not ment for discussing US politics. The majority of people who are subscribed are subscribed for Arch related discussions, news, events... not your political opinions! As Eli said earlier, the Arch subreddit is not affiliated with the Arch Linux project. That means there's nothing to solve here. When Arch starts being political, then discuss politics. J.M.

Ralf Mardorf

12:16 a.m.

On Mon, 01 Jun 2020 23:43:10 +0000, Ricardo Band wrote:

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It's a rainbow, not a swastika.

+1 In what colour should we paint the bike shed? I seriously doubt that "outside of western countries most countries are strictly against" rainbow coloured bike sheds or logos. Those "ominous" countries probably are aware that Arch repositories provide "conspirative" packages such as https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/gnupg/ https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/tor/ .

Yaro Kasear

12:22 a.m.

On 6/1/20 6:43 PM, Ricardo Band wrote:

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On June 1, 2020 11:18:50 PM UTC, Amir Fletcher via arch-general wrote:

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Recently, the Arch reddit logo was changed to a rainbow. This is for "pride month". It is forcing a political view on all of the users who did not ask for this. I'm sorry but why do you care about the damn logo? And since when has the sexual identity anything to do with politics? It's a rainbow, not a swastika.

Agreed. It's not like people are forced to use the logo to use Arch Linux. If you don't like it, then just don't sit around staring at it. Also, in the sort of places that would cause serious harm for someone to support LGBT+ rights Arch already has a number of packages that they would already not want people to use. Just saying. Yaro

LuKaRo

12:17 a.m.

On 02.06.20 01:18, Amir Fletcher via arch-general wrote:

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Recently, the Arch reddit logo was changed to a rainbow. This is for "pride month". It is forcing a political view on all of the users who did not ask for this. Many of us don't care about the views of the developers or moderators as long as we continue to enjoy Arch.

I can understand both points. I think that "pride month", or LGBTQ+ in general, is something that is worth supporting. However, I think a project should not claim support of any political or societal topic if the project in fact does not have the support for such a decision by it's members. Otherwise, such a statement is completely worthless. What does it mean to say "Arch supports pride month" if we don't even know if Arch users do or don't support this agenda? Therefore, I think that such a claim requires at least a minimum amount of discussion.

...

When this was brought up, the moderator silenced the criticism and deleted the thread.

And if this discussion didn't happen prior to publishing the claim, it should be at least allowed afterwards (and not banned by deleting a corresponding thread). Banning or deleting discussions on valid topics in a community project is a sign of bad leadership in general. As a community project should be democratic, there should be no need for doing so at all. Just my 2 cents.

...

This is where the problem begins. If we cannot even discuss disagreement with views being forced on us, what's left? Please moderators and developers, reconsider forcing your views on us and not even allowing discussion about it. We do not all share your views, but we can get along if everyone is left to their own devices. I totally agree to that. Especially if we consider that supporting something like a "pride month" is a privilege that not everyone on this world comes to enjoy. We shouldn't forget that there are lots of countries in the world were free speech is only a phrase and not practice.

Joshua Schmalle

12:33 a.m.

Does Reddit arch celebrate Christmas? I don’t see how a rainbow would imply it’s relevant to the community regardless. It’s not forcing anything on anyone. Sent from ProtonMail Mobile On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 8:17 PM, LuKaRo wrote:

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On 02.06.20 01:18, Amir Fletcher via arch-general wrote:

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Recently, the Arch reddit logo was changed to a rainbow. This is for "pride month". It is forcing a political view on all of the users who did not ask for this. Many of us don't care about the views of the developers or moderators as long as we continue to enjoy Arch.

I can understand both points. I think that "pride month", or LGBTQ+ in general, is something that is worth supporting. However, I think a project should not claim support of any political or societal topic if the project in fact does not have the support for such a decision by it's members. Otherwise, such a statement is completely worthless. What does it mean to say "Arch supports pride month" if we don't even know if Arch users do or don't support this agenda?

Therefore, I think that such a claim requires at least a minimum amount of discussion.

...
When this was brought up, the moderator silenced the criticism and deleted the thread.

And if this discussion didn't happen prior to publishing the claim, it should be at least allowed afterwards (and not banned by deleting a corresponding thread).

Banning or deleting discussions on valid topics in a community project is a sign of bad leadership in general. As a community project should be democratic, there should be no need for doing so at all. Just my 2 cents.

...
This is where the problem begins. If we cannot even discuss disagreement with views being forced on us, what's left? Please moderators and developers, reconsider forcing your views on us and not even allowing discussion about it. We do not all share your views, but we can get along if everyone is left to their own devices. I totally agree to that. Especially if we consider that supporting something like a "pride month" is a privilege that not everyone on this world comes to enjoy. We shouldn't forget that there are lots of countries in the world were free speech is only a phrase and not practice.

Shorrer

12:21 a.m.

I think one can just ignore the "systemd month" and all that accompanies it. Or stop visiting Reddit. However yeah, it's a bit sad that someone would think of changing a logo from something that unites different people to something that divides them and then censor opinions about it being wrong.

David C. Rankin

12:30 a.m.

On 06/01/2020 06:18 PM, Amir Fletcher via arch-general wrote:

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Arch Linux is a fantastic distribution. It should remain exactly that: a computer operating system for technical users. Politics should not be part of the project.

Recently, the Arch reddit logo was changed to a rainbow. This is for "pride month". It is forcing a political view on all of the users who did not ask for this. Many of us don't care about the views of the developers or moderators as long as we continue to enjoy Arch.

When this was brought up, the moderator silenced the criticism and deleted the thread.

https://old.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/gutcxb/is_arch_gay/

https://archive.is/Y9Ni1

Just ignore it. If it makes some feel better, so be it. It isn't hurting me at all... and whatever the intent, it doesn't have a deleterious effect on Arch. Rainbows, ponies, penguins, geckos, hats, all just nice decorations. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

Kevin Dodd

12:57 a.m.

The FOSS movement was called a "movement" for a reason. It was always about giving power to the people who would otherwise have none, and getting the boots of the powerful off of their backs. Pride month fits that ethos perfectly. If you don't want to see the logo, you can either use custom CSS or simply ignore it. This is such a non-problem. On 6/1/20 8:30 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:

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On 06/01/2020 06:18 PM, Amir Fletcher via arch-general wrote:

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Arch Linux is a fantastic distribution. It should remain exactly that: a computer operating system for technical users. Politics should not be part of the project.

Recently, the Arch reddit logo was changed to a rainbow. This is for "pride month". It is forcing a political view on all of the users who did not ask for this. Many of us don't care about the views of the developers or moderators as long as we continue to enjoy Arch.

When this was brought up, the moderator silenced the criticism and deleted the thread.

https://old.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/gutcxb/is_arch_gay/

https://archive.is/Y9Ni1

Just ignore it.

If it makes some feel better, so be it. It isn't hurting me at all... and whatever the intent, it doesn't have a deleterious effect on Arch. Rainbows, ponies, penguins, geckos, hats, all just nice decorations.

David C. Rankin

3:32 a.m.

On 06/01/2020 07:57 PM, Kevin Dodd via arch-general wrote:

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The FOSS movement was called a "movement" for a reason. It was always about giving power to the people who would otherwise have none, and getting the boots of the powerful off of their backs. Pride month fits that ethos perfectly.

If you don't want to see the logo, you can either use custom CSS or simply ignore it. This is such a non-problem.

I'm sorry Kevin, You misinterpreted my replay. I know FOSS well, from before the time of NCSA Mosaic. The intent was, regardless of what is depicted, it doesn't impact adversely impact another. I'm more than happy to see pride month celebrated or supported and whether Arch chooses to participate or not isn't something I see as political. (thus the "It isn't hurting me [or anyone else] at all" comment) So I apologize if the intent you gleaned differed from that intended conveyed. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

David C. Rankin

3:32 a.m.

On 06/01/2020 07:57 PM, Kevin Dodd via arch-general wrote:

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The FOSS movement was called a "movement" for a reason. It was always about giving power to the people who would otherwise have none, and getting the boots of the powerful off of their backs. Pride month fits that ethos perfectly.

If you don't want to see the logo, you can either use custom CSS or simply ignore it. This is such a non-problem.

I'm sorry Kevin, You misinterpreted my reply. I know FOSS well, from before the time of NCSA Mosaic. The intent was, regardless of what is depicted, it doesn't impact adversely impact another. I'm more than happy to see pride month celebrated or supported and whether Arch chooses to participate or not isn't something I see as political. (thus the "It isn't hurting me [or anyone else] at all" comment) So I apologize if the intent you gleaned differed from that intended conveyed. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.

Kyle

1:31 a.m.

Well, the way I see it, they can keep the rainbow on their logo all year long. After all, I see the rainbow as a symbol of its original meaning, that God set His bow in the cloud as a covenant between Him and us that He would never again destroy the earth with a flood. That said, a religious symbol is also not very appropriate for a computer operating system, unless its developers are known to profess a certain faith. But then again, was the official Arch logo changed on the website, or was this only a Reddit thing? If Reddit, then pretty much anything goes. But whether it's a political symbol or a religious one, it's probably not appropriate on the official website. I ask about the website because I'm visually impaired, using the Orca screen reader, so am unable to see for myself what if anything was done to the logo that appears on the Arch website. ~Kyle

Kusoneko

2:04 a.m.

On June 2, 2020 1:31:24 AM UTC, Kyle via arch-general wrote:

...

Well, the way I see it, they can keep the rainbow on their logo all year long. After all, I see the rainbow as a symbol of its original meaning,

that God set His bow in the cloud as a covenant between Him and us that

He would never again destroy the earth with a flood.

That said, a religious symbol is also not very appropriate for a computer operating system, unless its developers are known to profess a

certain faith. But then again, was the official Arch logo changed on the website, or was this only a Reddit thing? If Reddit, then pretty much anything goes. But whether it's a political symbol or a religious one, it's probably not appropriate on the official website. I ask about the website because I'm visually impaired, using the Orca screen reader, so

am unable to see for myself what if anything was done to the logo that appears on the Arch website.

~Kyle

After looking into it, it appears only the archlinux subreddit has that rainbow arch logo, the official website and wiki don't, and as Eli mentioned, the reddit isn't official, so I'll retract what I said and just say: don't use reddit.

Ralf Mardorf

2:13 a.m.

On Tue, 2 Jun 2020 01:31:24 +0000, Kyle via arch-general wrote:

...

I ask about the website because I'm visually impaired, using the Orca screen reader, so am unable to see for myself what if anything was done to the logo that appears on the Arch website.

The logos on https://www.archlinux.org/ https://aur.archlinux.org/ https://bugs.archlinux.org/ https://wiki.archlinux.org/ contain only one colour of the rainbow ;). The same applies at least to the following German sites, too. https://www.archlinux.de/ https://wiki.archlinux.de/title/Hauptseite

Filipe Laíns

6:17 a.m.

On Mon, 2020-06-01 at 23:18 +0000, Amir Fletcher via arch-general wrote:

...

Arch Linux is a fantastic distribution. It should remain exactly that: a computer operating system for technical users. Politics should not be part of the project.

Recently, the Arch reddit logo was changed to a rainbow. This is for "pride month". It is forcing a political view on all of the users who did not ask for this. Many of us don't care about the views of the developers or moderators as long as we continue to enjoy Arch.

When this was brought up, the moderator silenced the criticism and deleted the thread.

https://old.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/gutcxb/is_arch_gay/

https://archive.is/Y9Ni1

This is where the problem begins. If we cannot even discuss disagreement with views being forced on us, what's left? Please moderators and developers, reconsider forcing your views on us and not even allowing discussion about it. We do not all share your views, but we can get along if everyone is left to their own devices.

This kind of topic should not even need to be brought up. It's very disheartening to see whoever moderates that reddit doing this. We just want to use Arch. In many cultures outside of Europe or the US, this is not welcome at all. Even in those countries, not everyone wants an agenda shoved into their face.

CC-ing everyone involved on the thread. I am saddened seeing how some people in this thread are addressing this issue. I am not one to usually comment on this sort of matter, given the context, as it is completely irrelevant to the work being done here, but in this case I feel that I should stand up. The use of the Pride flag or colors does not mean *endorsement*. It means that the community is **paying respect** and **showing support** to a group which has been mistreated and oppressed all throughout history, still up to this day. Nobody is asking you, or any other member, to identify or participate in the movement, only to show respect. And for the ones that still feel entitled to having a say on how the community should behave, don't. All communities being discussed here, being Arch or the subreddit are run by volunteers, which put in the work for you to benefit. If the subreddit team decided they wanted to show support during Pride month, it is their decision. Everyone else is, of course, still entitled to their own opinions. If your disagreement comes from religious believes, I hope you still find in your heart to acknowledge and respect the enormous amount of suffering this group has overcomed. Going back to the issue. I always try to assume good intent when lacking information. This sort of accusations are not helpful. Having a look at the reddit thread, you can easily pick out some trolling comments, which is against the rules. I would even consider the name of the thread itself as trolling. From the CoC:

...

"troll" is a person who misuses their forum freedoms to intentionally disrupt, cause controversy, incite an argument, and/or receive negative attention by deliberately posting provocative content

If you want to have a constructive discussion on why the reddit staff decided to show support during this month, feel free to create a new thread. Cheers, Filipe Laíns

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22 participants

participants (22)

Amir Fletcher
Amish
David C. Rankin
Eli Schwartz
Filipe Laíns
Hanipaganda
Josef Miegl
Joshua Schmalle
Kevin Dodd
Kusoneko
Kyle
LuKaRo
m.
Olivier Langlois
Ralf Mardorf
Rasmus Liland
Ricardo Band
riveravaldez
Robin Martijn
Shorrer
Sotir Danailov
Yaro Kasear