[arch-general] Top level node not shown in Texinfo viewer
Using the Texinfo standalone viewer, I found out that the top level node is not shown with the command `info' as it should. In Ubuntu seems to work fine with Texinfo 4.13, but here in Arch I don't know if it is really a bug or what :-/ Anyone can see this top level node just executing `info'? Thanks in advance. -- Ricardo (http://r.untroubled.be/)
Hello Archlinux users... After almost a year without using linux, I read a news, telling me that the gnome 2 is back, now there is Mate, in the aur repository... It is time to celebrate, my notebook will come to live again!!!
The war was over when people realized that Xfce wasn't so bad. I actually prefer it to KDE. Even though it would be a hassle to change over. On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi < lenzi.sergio@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Archlinux users... After almost a year without using linux, I read a news, telling me that the gnome 2 is back, now there is Mate, in the aur repository...
It is time to celebrate, my notebook will come to live again!!!
-- "Breathe Deeply and Dream"
-----Original Message----- From: arch-general-bounces@archlinux.org on behalf of Jeffrey Lynn Parke Jr. Sent: Thu 12/8/2011 21:24 The war was over when people realized that Xfce wasn't so bad. I actually prefer it to KDE. Even though it would be a hassle to change over. +++ Xfce IMO is a good replacement. I guess that Xfce will become much faster better now and I also guess that the GNOME developers will reconsider their policy and that GNOME 2 will have a comeback. KDE3 had no comeback, but KDE4 doesn't suck as much as GNOME 3 does. 0.02, Ralf
2011/12/8 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:
-----Original Message----- From: arch-general-bounces@archlinux.org on behalf of Jeffrey Lynn Parke Jr. Sent: Thu 12/8/2011 21:24
The war was over when people realized that Xfce wasn't so bad. I actually prefer it to KDE. Even though it would be a hassle to change over.
+++
Xfce IMO is a good replacement. I guess that Xfce will become much faster better now and I also guess that the GNOME developers will reconsider their policy and that GNOME 2 will have a comeback. KDE3 had no comeback, but KDE4 doesn't suck as much as GNOME 3 does.
I think you're wrong, completely wrong. Gnome 2 and Mate are dead-end. If you think gnome 3 suck, so gnome 3 users suck too. Thank you.
0.02€,
I hope, even if I'm french, in this case euro is dead.
Ralf
-- Frederic Bezies fredbezies@gmail.com
-----Original Message----- From: arch-general-bounces@archlinux.org on behalf of fredbezies Sent: Fri 12/9/2011 07:35 2011/12/8 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:
-----Original Message----- From: arch-general-bounces@archlinux.org on behalf of Jeffrey Lynn Parke Jr. Sent: Thu 12/8/2011 21:24
The war was over when people realized that Xfce wasn't so bad. I actually prefer it to KDE. Even though it would be a hassle to change over.
+++
Xfce IMO is a good replacement. I guess that Xfce will become much faster better now and I also guess that the GNOME developers will reconsider their policy and that GNOME 2 will have a comeback. KDE3 had no comeback, but KDE4 doesn't suck as much as GNOME 3 does.
I think you're wrong, completely wrong. Gnome 2 and Mate are dead-end. If you think gnome 3 suck, so gnome 3 users suck too. Thank you. +++ Frederic :), this is a bad conclusion. There's nothing wrong with a user who is comfortable with GNOME 3. It's just that GNOME 3 comes with several side effects. I'll install GNOME 3 myself, but I don't like it for some usage that's important for me and for my DAW I'll use Xfce. When I'm e.g. forced to use a proprietary graphics driver to run a DE, this is what I'll call a dead end, especially if I need to offend a software licence to use a DE with a kernel-rt and a Nvidia graphics. I also guess that a good tool shouldn't be dropped. If a DE, such as GNOME 2 enables a good workflow, it's not helpful to break this workflow. Linux users are a minority group and a lot of us chose Linux, because it's a reliable tool freelance from marketing. At least with Debian I experienced GNOME 3 as problematic, comparable to current M$ and Apple fashions that I don't want on my machine. Some users need to use GNOME 3's fallback mode, you might run top, too see what happens if you do this. YMMV! Ralf
2011/12/9 Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>: [...]
I think you're wrong, completely wrong. Gnome 2 and Mate are dead-end. If you think gnome 3 suck, so gnome 3 users suck too. Thank you.
+++
Frederic :), this is a bad conclusion. There's nothing wrong with a user who is comfortable with GNOME 3. It's
I prefer that ;)
just that GNOME 3 comes with several side effects. I'll install GNOME 3 myself, but I don't like it for some usage >that's important for me and for my DAW I'll use Xfce. When I'm e.g. forced to use a proprietary graphics driver to >run a DE, this is what I'll call a dead end, especially if I need to offend a software licence to use a DE with a
If you have a nvidia chipset, you can use nouveau driver with gnome 3. See Fedora for example ;)
kernel-rt and a Nvidia graphics. I also guess that a good tool shouldn't be dropped. If a DE, such as GNOME 2 >enables a good workflow, it's not helpful to break this workflow.
Gnome 2 is a dead end on technology side. Main programs will sooner or later move to gtk3.
Linux users are a minority group and a lot of us chose Linux, because it's a reliable tool freelance from marketing. >At least with Debian I experienced GNOME 3 as problematic, comparable to current M$ and Apple fashions that I >don't want on my machine. Some users need to use GNOME 3's fallback mode, you might run top, too see what >happens if you do this.
I tried Gnome-Shell with debian wheezy and it works not too bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5UoR4nX6gM
YMMV!
Ralf
:) -- Frederic Bezies fredbezies@gmail.com
-----Original Message----- From: arch-general-bounces@archlinux.org on behalf of fredbezies Sent: Fri 12/9/2011 08:52 If you have a nvidia chipset, you can use nouveau driver with gnome 3. +++ Unfortunately a lot of people can't use nouveau for audio productions. For my 7200 GS this driver completely is a PITA. I have to use the FLOSS nv driver, dropped by Debian or the proprietary nvidia driver. 3 system calls for the kernel-rt don't allow you to use the proprietary nvidia driver, you need to fake the licence to use this driver. Unfortunately GNOME is a good desktop for audio production workflow. Other users might have other reasons to be pissed by GNOME 3 and of cause, for some users GNOME 3 seems to be a good successor. Cheers! Ralf
On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 08:52:51 +0100 fredbezies wrote:
Gnome 2 is a dead end on technology side. Main programs will sooner or later move to gtk3.
Will that effect xfce-gnome compatibility? Kc
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Kevin Chadwick <ma1l1ists@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Will that effect xfce-gnome compatibility?
I believe so. But XFCE developers will fix that in time for the next release; I believe they're waiting for this right now to be ready to patch softwares in the last chunk of development cycle for 4.10. By the way, XFCE 4.10 will hopefully include some neat features from GNOME 2.3x aiming to be a successor and a safe choice for GNOME 2.x refugees. Just previsions :) Salud, Bl@ster
Am Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:54:30 +0100 schrieb "Alessio 'Blaster' Biancalana" <dottorblaster@archlinux.us>:
By the way, XFCE 4.10 will hopefully include some neat features from GNOME 2.3x aiming to be a successor and a safe choice for GNOME 2.x refugees. Just previsions :)
I hope this will not happen. I never liked Gnome for a lot of reasons, and KDE4 and the fact that Xfce is so different from Gnome was the reason for switching to Xfce. If Xfce will become a Gnome 2 fork then there will be no good DE anymore. If someone wants to keep Gnome2 he shall switch to Mate. Heiko
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Heiko Baums <lists@baums-on-web.de> wrote:
Am Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:54:30 +0100 schrieb "Alessio 'Blaster' Biancalana" <dottorblaster@archlinux.us>:
I hope this will not happen. I never liked Gnome for a lot of reasons,
and KDE4 and the fact that Xfce is so different from Gnome was the reason for switching to Xfce. If Xfce will become a Gnome 2 fork then there will be no good DE anymore.
If someone wants to keep Gnome2 he shall switch to Mate.
Right. But IMHO XFCE misses some neat features like a decent power manager. I would only like a more complete set of applications/options environment-related :) Bl@ster
On 12/09/2011 07:45 AM, Alessio 'Blaster' Biancalana wrote:
But IMHO XFCE misses some neat features like a decent power manager.
Just curious - what's your issue with the XFCE power manager? It's fairly minimal (which is not a bad thing, IMO) and always worked fine for me. DR
Em Sex, 2011-12-09 às 12:54 +0100, Alessio 'Blaster' Biancalana escreveu:
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Kevin Chadwick <ma1l1ists@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:
Will that effect xfce-gnome compatibility?
I believe so. But XFCE developers will fix that in time for the next release; I believe they're waiting for this right now to be ready to patch softwares in the last chunk of development cycle for 4.10.
By the way, XFCE 4.10 will hopefully include some neat features from GNOME 2.3x aiming to be a successor and a safe choice for GNOME 2.x refugees. Just previsions :)
Salud, Bl@ster
Thank you... I will be testing xfce this week on a fresh generated FreeBSD 9.0.... Why FreeBSD?? because I can build it from ground zero (the OS, the shell, the xorg, and finally the xfce) about 20 hours of unattended built, and I will evaluate it after I will compare with the Archlinux build and watch for the differences.... My notebooks are just waiting for the experience, and my girl friend hope will not kill me (or dump me) for that.... [] Sergio
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi < lenzi.sergio@gmail.com> wrote:
I will be testing xfce this week on a fresh generated FreeBSD 9.0....
I don't like BSD, especially for modern environments. Linux has a more modern architecture; I love the system, but i must admit that in 2011 it isn't efficient anymore. (And BSD has troubles with drivers :( )
Why FreeBSD?? because I can build it from ground zero (the OS, the shell, the xorg, and finally the xfce)
You can do the same for Arch. What do you mean by 'building from ground zero'?
My notebooks are just waiting for the experience, and my girl friend hope will not kill me (or dump me) for that....
LOL :D Salud, Bl@ster
On 09/12/11 14:16, Alessio 'Blaster' Biancalana wrote:
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi < lenzi.sergio@gmail.com> wrote:
I will be testing xfce this week on a fresh generated FreeBSD 9.0....
I don't like BSD, especially for modern environments. Linux has a more modern architecture; I love the system, but i must admit that in 2011 it isn't efficient anymore. (And BSD has troubles with drivers :( )
Why FreeBSD?? because I can build it from ground zero (the OS, the shell, the xorg, and finally the xfce)
You can do the same for Arch. What do you mean by 'building from ground zero'?
My notebooks are just waiting for the experience, and my girl friend hope will not kill me (or dump me) for that....
LOL :D
Salud, Bl@ster
Can't we discuss this somewhere else, in my opinion this is completely offtopic. Use whatever DE,Distro,OS you like ;) If you don't like upstream fork it -- Jelle van der Waa
On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 14:20:39 +0100 Jelle van der Waa wrote:
I don't like BSD, especially for modern environments. Linux has a more modern architecture; I love the system, but i must admit that in 2011 it isn't efficient anymore. (And BSD has troubles with drivers :( )
Can't we discuss this somewhere else, in my opinion this is completely offtopic. Use whatever DE,Distro,OS you like ;)
Especially when it's all opinion plucked out of the air and has nothing to do with reality!
It would appear that on Dec 9, fredbezies did say:
If you have a nvidia chipset, you can use nouveau driver with gnome 3. See Fedora for example ;)
Pardon me for intruding on your discussion "fredbezies" but I really wish people wouldn't assume that nouveau works for everyone... My current desktop is a winxp error HP Pavilion with embedded Nvidia GeForce 6150 LE for which the nouveau driver as supplied by Arch, Xubuntu, Sabayon, and OpenSuSE gave me unstable console screen and absolutely no X until I switched to the proprietary Nvidia drivers... I remember it because I usually prefer open source stuff. But I'm less likely to willingly try nouveau again than I'd be to go back to kde4... And that's saying something because I've been using mostly E17 (or sometimes E16) ever since the demise of kde3's UI sent me packing. If for some reason I can't use E I fall back on xfce. But from KDE{4} or gnome{any} I'll only use what I need to run a few selected applications. I'll admit I didn't try it with Fedora, But I gave up on them some time ago... Just an FYI... -- | ^^^ ^^^ | <o> <o> Joe (theWordy) Philbrook | ^ J(tWdy)P | ___ <<jtwdyp@ttlc.net>> <sigh>
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>wrote:
0.02€,
Ralf
You won man. :D Salud, Bl@ster
-----Original Message----- From: arch-general-bounces@archlinux.org on behalf of Alessio 'Blaster' Biancalana Sent: Fri 12/9/2011 11:02 To: General Discussion about Arch Linux Subject: Re: [arch-general] end of the war! Mate has come to archlinux... On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>wrote:
0.02?,
Ralf
You won man. :D +++ Do I have the better arguments or is it, that I'm the king of clowns aka the completely idiot ;)? In real live I'm sure that I don't won, since there were no news about continuing GNOME 2. :p Ralf PS: I bet there's a quote of Bill Hicks that would suit now, but I won't search it.
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>wrote:
Do I have the better arguments or is it, that I'm the king of clowns aka the completely idiot ;)?
I agree with your mail, but I laughed reading that conclusion :P Double win? ;) Salud, Bl@ster / dottorblaster
On 12/08/2011 05:23 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
KDE3 had no comeback
Actually, it did. (http://www.trinitydesktop.org/about.php) It just hasn't really gained too much critical mass. (Yet?) DR
-----Original Message----- From: arch-general-bounces@archlinux.org on behalf of David Rosenstrauch Sent: Fri 12/9/2011 21:47 On 12/08/2011 05:23 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
KDE3 had no comeback
Actually, it did. (http://www.trinitydesktop.org/about.php) It just hasn't really gained too much critical mass. (Yet?) +++ I know this project. This doesn't sound promising: "The Trinity Development Team is currently working on packages for other RPM based systems such as OpenSUSE and Mandriva. More information will be posted in the future as these packages near completion. Help Wanted! The Trinity team is currently looking for help in the following areas: Application bugfixes"
Actually, it did. (http://www.trinitydesktop.org/about.php) It just hasn't really gained too much critical mass. (Yet?)
+++
Wow... I leaved kde whe it abandon kde3... I did not like the kde4 system. FreeBSD still have kde3 running and well... Thank you for the informtion
On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi <lenzi.sergio@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Archlinux users... After almost a year without using linux, I read a news, telling me that the gnome 2 is back, now there is Mate, in the aur repository...
Just remember it's not supported by Arch devs etc. It has it's own repo w/ precompiled binaries too, so it's not just in the AUR. Read the wiki + check out https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=121162
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 08/12/11 16:50, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:
Hello Archlinux users... After almost a year without using linux, I read a news, telling me that the gnome 2 is back, now there is Mate, in the aur repository...
It is time to celebrate, my notebook will come to live again!!!
Good for you!, but you can have several DE, or WM in Linux world. So, eventually, you should "evolve" and not be tied to just one of them ;). Just my honest opinion. - -- Angel Velásquez angvp @ irc.freenode.net Arch Linux Developer / Trusted User Linux Counter: #359909 http://www.angvp.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJO4SAlAAoJEEKh2xXsEzutu6AIAKZpNw/LWUoEgEw//8aqvZNv XNMWEoL4EQMeBlFad2mBYaQqCNoPtKQFwQMQ/F0v09Q4oIUqrWN7vhUJyKAXoO+5 ME5PDy2kjwBrDRQxmdIhhhXnnLPzWOOLSXIEmx1fVkizppmOTsiPxJv0WuWBTDvv VQYf2gTtxEvyURPKVSrElhpLMsGdEtP3bDtjDC7981ap+OUBf6lWyZ2akqlxasTU Wedmqhd6TLjICiPdwWL7HZ8lLf6zJ/2R6tZdlDLSg96MviYHXvtjdvfx7FZ9Op7y RPH9CA+t67cP7sb/k+xPyB/f3HQwKMX1ObDfFgZBQAgwvYZIF9FLD9fRoS5k/1o= =EfvL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
2011/12/8 Angel Velásquez <angvp@archlinux.org>
Good for you!, but you can have several DE, or WM in Linux world.
So, eventually, you should "evolve" and not be tied to just one of them ;).
I switched to KDE, and I'm giving GNOME a chance every time it hits a new release. Unfortunately, that isn't "my" DE anymore, I don't like Clutter very much and I migrated my workstations to another environment. Maybe you should do so. Salud, Bl@ster
FWIW currently I'm a little bit lazy and instead of recovering lost data or to solve my Internet issue for Arch, I'm running a Parted Magic Live CD just to have some fun. It ships with LXDE, IMO another good replacement for GNOME. Enlightenment IMO is garbage, but perhaps Fluxbox is enhanced, didn't tested it for a long time.
Em Qui, 2011-12-08 às 17:37 -0300, Angel Velásquez escreveu:
Good for you!, but you can have several DE, or WM in Linux world.
So, eventually, you should "evolve" and not be tied to just one of them ;).
Just my honest opinion.
You are right... I must evolve... My company, the one I work for, (200+) employees and thousands of users, must evolve too. We are now testing tablets... 2 brands came into the arena: apple's iPad, and of course: Android.. The main use is to access the company workhorse using vnc... and leave the personal data on the tablet. Seems promising.. as only a few servers runs Archlinux with hundreds of users and fxce, or gnome 3.2, and the personal stuff will be kept in the tablets... I do not have too much data still, but the few tablets we have put in test, seems working very good. Apple is better hardware, but closed, Android is Linux, is open have better conectivity.. heavy, battery problems... Apple you build the software in objetive c, Android is java (or a kind of...). The only thing that is true is the Archlinux servers, that does not stops at all... Thank you Archlinux team for the Great Job... Sergio
On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 08:10:40PM +0100, Ricardo Catalinas Jiménez wrote:
Using the Texinfo standalone viewer, I found out that the top level node is not shown with the command `info' as it should.
In Ubuntu seems to work fine with Texinfo 4.13, but here in Arch I don't know if it is really a bug or what :-/
Anyone can see this top level node just executing `info'?
I see the same thing as you, ie nothing when executing `info'. Most likely a bug. Have you reported it already? /M -- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus Perl is another example of filling a tiny, short-term need, and then being a real problem in the longer term. -- Alan Kay
On 09/12/11 07:53, Magnus Therning wrote:
On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 08:10:40PM +0100, Ricardo Catalinas Jiménez wrote:
Using the Texinfo standalone viewer, I found out that the top level node is not shown with the command `info' as it should.
In Ubuntu seems to work fine with Texinfo 4.13, but here in Arch I don't know if it is really a bug or what :-/
Anyone can see this top level node just executing `info'?
I see the same thing as you, ie nothing when executing `info'. Most likely a bug. Have you reported it already?
It shows the top level node here...
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 08:20:01AM +1000, Allan McRae wrote:
On 09/12/11 07:53, Magnus Therning wrote:
I see the same thing as you, ie nothing when executing `info'. Most likely a bug. Have you reported it already?
I didn't report in Arch nor upstream. I wanted to confirm the bug first.
It shows the top level node here...
I did a fresh install with mkarchroot and I could reproduce the issue. Here I uploaded my dir file and the strace output from info, where we can see that /usr/share/info/dir is stated, opened, read and then closed: http://r.untroubled.be/private/dir http://r.untroubled.be/private/info.trace I compared the Ubuntu dir with the Arch dir and those files do not present any relevant difference. One silly question (I'm not an ABS expert), in the package sources I saw defined in the file `texinfo.install': infodir=usr/share/info Does it matter the relative path?, in contrast to something like this: infodir=/usr/share/info Regards -- Ricardo (http://r.untroubled.be/)
On 09/12/11 10:56, Ricardo Catalinas Jiménez wrote:
On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 08:20:01AM +1000, Allan McRae wrote:
On 09/12/11 07:53, Magnus Therning wrote:
I see the same thing as you, ie nothing when executing `info'. Most likely a bug. Have you reported it already?
I didn't report in Arch nor upstream. I wanted to confirm the bug first.
It shows the top level node here...
I did a fresh install with mkarchroot and I could reproduce the issue.
Here I uploaded my dir file and the strace output from info, where we can see that /usr/share/info/dir is stated, opened, read and then closed:
http://r.untroubled.be/private/dir http://r.untroubled.be/private/info.trace
I compared the Ubuntu dir with the Arch dir and those files do not present any relevant difference.
One silly question (I'm not an ABS expert), in the package sources I saw defined in the file `texinfo.install':
infodir=usr/share/info
Does it matter the relative path?, in contrast to something like this:
infodir=/usr/share/info
That does not matter. In fact, without the leading slash is probably more correct...
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 2:35 AM, Allan McRae <allan@archlinux.org> wrote:
One silly question (I'm not an ABS expert), in the package sources I saw defined in the file `texinfo.install':
infodir=usr/share/info
Does it matter the relative path?, in contrast to something like this:
infodir=/usr/share/info
That does not matter. In fact, without the leading slash is probably more correct...
I have compiled manually Texinfo from sources, and using this `info' binary, it works as expected, showing my /usr/share/info/dir. The Texinfo package scripts are very simple, but I can't find the root of the cause there. I think something related to the environment where makepkg is compiling is causing this but I can't found out what it is. I checked and my /etc/makepkg.conf is the default one. Regards -- Ricardo
I found it. The flag `-fstack-protector' in CFLAGS from /etc/makepkg.conf triggers the issue, if I remove it `info' works properly. I opened a bug: https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/27539 Regards On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 2:30 AM, Ricardo Catalinas Jiménez < jimenezrick@gmail.com> wrote:
I have compiled manually Texinfo from sources, and using this `info' binary, it works as expected, showing my /usr/share/info/dir.
The Texinfo package scripts are very simple, but I can't find the root of the cause there. I think something related to the environment where makepkg is compiling is causing this but I can't found out what it is.
-- Ricardo
participants (15)
-
Alessio 'Blaster' Biancalana
-
Allan McRae
-
Angel Velásquez
-
David Rosenstrauch
-
fredbezies
-
Heiko Baums
-
Jeffrey Lynn Parke Jr.
-
Jelle van der Waa
-
Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
-
Karol Blazewicz
-
Kevin Chadwick
-
Magnus Therning
-
Ralf Mardorf
-
Ricardo Catalinas Jiménez
-
Sergio de Almeida Lenzi