[arch-general] top posting
Hello listmates, is there any special reason of why top-posting is a bad thing?
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 23:31, Juan Diego <juantascon@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello listmates,
is there any special reason of why top-posting is a bad thing?
To be clichéd... A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ~celti
On 03/03/10 at 11:36pm, Patrick Burroughs wrote:
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 23:31, Juan Diego <juantascon@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello listmates,
is there any special reason of why top-posting is a bad thing?
To be clichéd...
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
~celti
I like it! --
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Daniel J Griffiths (Ghost1227) <ghost1227@archlinux.us> wrote:
On 03/03/10 at 11:36pm, Patrick Burroughs wrote:
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 23:31, Juan Diego <juantascon@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello listmates,
is there any special reason of why top-posting is a bad thing?
To be clichéd...
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
~celti
I like it! --
got it
On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 17:36:13 +0900 Juan Diego <juantascon@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Daniel J Griffiths (Ghost1227) <ghost1227@archlinux.us> wrote:
On 03/03/10 at 11:36pm, Patrick Burroughs wrote:
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 23:31, Juan Diego <juantascon@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello listmates,
is there any special reason of why top-posting is a bad thing?
To be clichéd...
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
~celti
I like it! --
got it
Because its a mailing list, not a blog
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 12:36 AM, Patrick Burroughs <celticmadman@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 23:31, Juan Diego <juantascon@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello listmates,
is there any special reason of why top-posting is a bad thing?
To be clichéd...
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
To explain this a bit more verbosely: Top posting assumes that everyone reading the email is up-to-speed on all the previous emails and remembers them all. It's used in office situations where emails are fired off rapidly for every little thing. The newly-added text is meant to be most important. However, this is a mailing list. Not everyone is aware of the "state" of the list at any given time. It's best to bottom post and only reference relevant material so that even someone coming upon the 15th email in a chain is able to read just that email and understand it for the most part. If the 15th email just said "Yeah, that's a good idea" then everyone is confused
Aaron Griffin wrote:
However, this is a mailing list. Not everyone is aware of the "state" of the list at any given time. It's best to bottom post and only reference relevant material so that even someone coming upon the 15th email in a chain is able to read just that email and understand it for the most part. If the 15th email just said "Yeah, that's a good idea" then everyone is confused
And if it's a lengthy email, it doesn't make clear /which/ of the multiple ideas layed there is a good (bad) one. In such cases you should try to do an "inline reply", placing the original text / paragraph, and your reply. Repeat for each piece of text you have something to say about. If there are old emails not relevant, trim them. Eg. originally I got three email levels here: Juan Diego ->Patrick Burroughs -> Aaron Griffin Since my answer pertains just to this last one (even though it's still related to Juan Diego's question!), I'm leaving only the last paragraph from Aaron's (I could as well kept his whole mail). Wikipedia also has a nice article about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
The only advantage of top posting I can think of is that it enables you to forward the entire chain of emails to a new person with one click. You could, of course, bottom post and keep the entire chain in each email, but it's probably even worse than top posting, since you would have to scroll through the whole mess each time just to see what another person said. So in office environment, top posting is probably preferable to bottom posting. Although I do switch to bottom posting even when replying to office-style communication when I get a big list of unrelated questions. Bottom posting shows its downside only when you recently joined a mailing list, for example - you start receiving emails from threads that have been going for a long time and you have no idea what people are discussing. But if you're really interested, you can always use the archive. Denis.
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:57 AM, Denis Kobozev <d.v.kobozev@gmail.com> wrote:
Bottom posting shows its downside only when you recently joined a mailing list, for example - you start receiving emails from threads that have been going for a long time and you have no idea what people are discussing. But if you're really interested, you can always use the archive.
Using the archive might actually be nicer than reading backward a huge discussion that has been going for a long time.
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Denis Kobozev <d.v.kobozev@gmail.com> wrote:
Bottom posting shows its downside only when you recently joined a mailing list, for example - you start receiving emails from threads that have been going for a long time and you have no idea what people are discussing. But if you're really interested, you can always use the archive.
Top posting doesn't solve this, unless you're implying top posting with no previous messages trimmed. If this is what you're implying you need to compare apples-to-apples and assume the bottom-posted emails will have no previous messages trimmed as well. If this is the case, the bottom posting still wins as it has the entire conversation history _in order_
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:50 PM, Aaron Griffin <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com>wrote:
Top posting doesn't solve this, unless you're implying top posting with no previous messages trimmed. If this is what you're implying you need to compare apples-to-apples and assume the bottom-posted emails will have no previous messages trimmed as well.
If this is the case, the bottom posting still wins as it has the entire conversation history _in order_
Hi, I don't see any problem with top posting or bottom posting. The only horrible think IMHO is mix then together. So it's always nice to a list have a default e-mail style. I would vote for bottom, but top is ok too :) -- Felipe de Oliveira Tanus E-mail: fotanus@gmail.com Blog: http://www.itlife.com.br Site: http://www.inf.ufrgs.br/~fotanus/ ----- "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us." - Gandalf
2010/3/4, Juan Diego <juantascon@gmail.com>:
Hello listmates,
is there any special reason of why top-posting is a bad thing?
Is not the RFC1855 [1] a special reason for you? See 3.1.1 General Guidelines for mailing lists and NetNews [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 -- Arch Linux Developer http://www.archlinux.org http://www.archlinux.it
Am 05.03.2010 18:28, schrieb Giovanni Scafora:
2010/3/4, Juan Diego <juantascon@gmail.com>:
Hello listmates,
is there any special reason of why top-posting is a bad thing?
Is not the RFC1855 [1] a special reason for you? See 3.1.1 General Guidelines for mailing lists and NetNews
Ha, thanks for that link. In fact, everybody wrote like this until the masses joined the internet and some popular e-mail clients defaulted to top posting.
People using gmail's web interface are not likely to notice any problem with top or bottom posting, since gmail collapses the quoted text. but when we use a mail client, then we see the difference. Source: Personal experience. After reading a lot about posting style on this mailing list, i decided to try imap (i mainly use web interface of gmail), and could clearly see the difference.
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 7:53 AM, gt <codered12@gmail.com> wrote:
People using gmail's web interface are not likely to notice any problem with top or bottom posting, since gmail collapses the quoted text. but when we use a mail client, then we see the difference.
Source: Personal experience. After reading a lot about posting style on this mailing list, i decided to try imap (i mainly use web interface of gmail), and could clearly see the difference.
I use Gmail's interface. But I personally ensure that I post my response at the bottom instead of the top. -- Nilesh Govindarajan Site & Server Administrator www.itech7.com
On 03/06/10 at 11:34am, Nilesh Govindarajan wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 7:53 AM, gt <codered12@gmail.com> wrote:
People using gmail's web interface are not likely to notice any problem with top or bottom posting, since gmail collapses the quoted text. but when we use a mail client, then we see the difference.
Source: Personal experience. After reading a lot about posting style on this mailing list, i decided to try imap (i mainly use web interface of gmail), and could clearly see the difference.
I use Gmail's interface. But I personally ensure that I post my response at the bottom instead of the top.
-- Nilesh Govindarajan Site & Server Administrator www.itech7.com
I use mutt with a nifty little binding that automagically jumps to the last blank line in the file when it opens a message for reply :P --
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Daniel J Griffiths (Ghost1227) <ghost1227@archlinux.us> wrote:
I use mutt with a nifty little binding that automagically jumps to the last blank line in the file when it opens a message for reply :P --
Well with mutt you can use a decent text editor which will allow you do that very quickly anyway.
On 06/03/10 10:30, Xavier Chantry wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Daniel J Griffiths (Ghost1227) <ghost1227@archlinux.us> wrote:
I use mutt with a nifty little binding that automagically jumps to the last blank line in the file when it opens a message for reply :P --
Well with mutt you can use a decent text editor which will allow you do that very quickly anyway.
Most "decent" mail clients allow you to configure where to start typing when you press "reply". Not a big deal. Gmail breaks my logic. It's awesome, but I can't find a reason for it to not have bottom posting support. Hopefully they'll come up with a lab feature for it, so we don't have to rely on user scripts.
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Chris Hoeppner <chris.webstar@gmail.com>wrote:
On 06/03/10 10:30, Xavier Chantry wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Daniel J Griffiths (Ghost1227) <ghost1227@archlinux.us> wrote:
I use mutt with a nifty little binding that automagically jumps to the last blank line in the file when it opens a message for reply :P --
Well with mutt you can use a decent text editor which will allow you do that very quickly anyway.
Most "decent" mail clients allow you to configure where to start typing when you press "reply". Not a big deal. Gmail breaks my logic. It's awesome, but I can't find a reason for it to not have bottom posting support. Hopefully they'll come up with a lab feature for it, so we don't have to rely on user scripts.
Do you have some script for it ?? I badly need it. -- Nilesh Govindarajan Site & Server Administrator www.itech7.com
On 06/03/10 11:23, Nilesh Govindarajan wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Chris Hoeppner<chris.webstar@gmail.com>wrote:
On 06/03/10 10:30, Xavier Chantry wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Daniel J Griffiths (Ghost1227) <ghost1227@archlinux.us> wrote:
I use mutt with a nifty little binding that automagically jumps to the last blank line in the file when it opens a message for reply :P --
Well with mutt you can use a decent text editor which will allow you do that very quickly anyway.
Most "decent" mail clients allow you to configure where to start typing when you press "reply". Not a big deal. Gmail breaks my logic. It's awesome, but I can't find a reason for it to not have bottom posting support. Hopefully they'll come up with a lab feature for it, so we don't have to rely on user scripts.
Do you have some script for it ?? I badly need it.
This[1] one was working fine last time I tried. The risk with these is that they may break at any given time, depending on how Google updates the Gmail interface. On the other hand, it's just JavaScript, and not hard to adapt. At some point, I got annoyed with it, and switched to a desktop client using IMAP. YMMV. [1]http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/35866
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Chris Hoeppner <chris.webstar@gmail.com>wrote:
On 06/03/10 11:23, Nilesh Govindarajan wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Chris Hoeppner<chris.webstar@gmail.com
wrote:
On 06/03/10 10:30, Xavier Chantry wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Daniel J Griffiths (Ghost1227)
<ghost1227@archlinux.us> wrote:
I use mutt with a nifty little binding that automagically jumps to the last blank line in the file when it opens a message for reply :P --
Well with mutt you can use a decent text editor which will allow you do that very quickly anyway.
Most "decent" mail clients allow you to configure where to start typing when you press "reply". Not a big deal. Gmail breaks my logic. It's awesome, but I can't find a reason for it to not have bottom posting support. Hopefully they'll come up with a lab feature for it, so we don't have to rely on user scripts.
Do you have some script for it ?? I badly need it.
This[1] one was working fine last time I tried. The risk with these is that they may break at any given time, depending on how Google updates the Gmail interface. On the other hand, it's just JavaScript, and not hard to adapt. At some point, I got annoyed with it, and switched to a desktop client using IMAP. YMMV.
It doesn't work anymore. I changed mail.google.tld to .com still doesn't work. I was also using Tbird as an IMAP client but, it doesn't do well when you have other accounts from which you download mail into Gmail skipping the inbox directly into a label. Also it sends the same message twice. I.e. it once sends it through the SMTP server and then while saving it to the Sent folder. Double traffic. If the mail is a chain mail with big attachments, it sucks on slow connections. So I went back to web interface. -- Nilesh Govindarajan Site & Server Administrator www.itech7.com
El 06/03/2010 11:53, Nilesh Govindarajan escribió:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Chris Hoeppner<chris.webstar@gmail.com>wrote:
On 06/03/10 11:23, Nilesh Govindarajan wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Chris Hoeppner<chris.webstar@gmail.com
wrote:
On 06/03/10 10:30, Xavier Chantry wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Daniel J Griffiths (Ghost1227)
<ghost1227@archlinux.us> wrote:
I use mutt with a nifty little binding that automagically jumps to the last blank line in the file when it opens a message for reply :P --
Well with mutt you can use a decent text editor which will allow you do that very quickly anyway.
Most "decent" mail clients allow you to configure where to start typing when you press "reply". Not a big deal. Gmail breaks my logic. It's awesome, but I can't find a reason for it to not have bottom posting support. Hopefully they'll come up with a lab feature for it, so we don't have to rely on user scripts.
Do you have some script for it ?? I badly need it.
This[1] one was working fine last time I tried. The risk with these is that they may break at any given time, depending on how Google updates the Gmail interface. On the other hand, it's just JavaScript, and not hard to adapt. At some point, I got annoyed with it, and switched to a desktop client using IMAP. YMMV.
It doesn't work anymore. I changed mail.google.tld to .com still doesn't work. I was also using Tbird as an IMAP client but, it doesn't do well when you have other accounts from which you download mail into Gmail skipping the inbox directly into a label.
Also it sends the same message twice. I.e. it once sends it through the SMTP server and then while saving it to the Sent folder. Double traffic. If the mail is a chain mail with big attachments, it sucks on slow connections. So I went back to web interface.
You can disable the "copy to sent" in Thunderbird, which would probably solve the problem you describe about "double traffic". I use the spanish version of TB, so the name may vary, but it translates to "folders and copies", under account settings, inside the tree view of the pertient account. Maybe the issue you have with Gmail import has a similarly easy solution, you may want to try and describe it =)
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Michishige Kaito <chris.webstar@gmail.com>wrote:
El 06/03/2010 11:53, Nilesh Govindarajan escribió:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Chris Hoeppner<chris.webstar@gmail.com
wrote:
On 06/03/10 11:23, Nilesh Govindarajan wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Chris Hoeppner<chris.webstar@gmail.com
wrote:
On 06/03/10 10:30, Xavier Chantry wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Daniel J Griffiths (Ghost1227)
<ghost1227@archlinux.us> wrote:
I use mutt with a nifty little binding that automagically jumps to > the > last > blank line in the file when it opens a message for reply :P > -- > > > Well with mutt you can use a decent text editor which will allow you > do that very quickly anyway.
Most "decent" mail clients allow you to configure where to start typing when you press "reply". Not a big deal. Gmail breaks my logic. It's awesome, but I can't find a reason for it to not have bottom posting support. Hopefully they'll come up with a lab feature for it, so we don't have to rely on user scripts.
Do you have some script for it ?? I badly need it.
This[1] one was working fine last time I tried. The risk with these is
that they may break at any given time, depending on how Google updates the Gmail interface. On the other hand, it's just JavaScript, and not hard to adapt. At some point, I got annoyed with it, and switched to a desktop client using IMAP. YMMV.
It doesn't work anymore. I changed mail.google.tld to .com still doesn't work. I was also using Tbird as an IMAP client but, it doesn't do well when you have other accounts from which you download mail into Gmail skipping the inbox directly into a label.
Also it sends the same message twice. I.e. it once sends it through the SMTP server and then while saving it to the Sent folder. Double traffic. If the mail is a chain mail with big attachments, it sucks on slow connections. So I went back to web interface.
You can disable the "copy to sent" in Thunderbird, which would probably solve the problem you describe about "double traffic". I use the spanish version of TB, so the name may vary, but it translates to "folders and copies", under account settings, inside the tree view of the pertient account.
Maybe the issue you have with Gmail import has a similarly easy solution, you may want to try and describe it =)
If I disable copy to sent folder, then will Gmail save the sent copy ? -- Nilesh Govindarajan Site & Server Administrator www.itech7.com
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 18:36 +0530, Nilesh Govindarajan wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Michishige Kaito <chris.webstar@gmail.com>wrote:
You can disable the "copy to sent" in Thunderbird, which would probably solve the problem you describe about "double traffic". I use the spanish version of TB, so the name may vary, but it translates to "folders and copies", under account settings, inside the tree view of the pertient account.
Maybe the issue you have with Gmail import has a similarly easy solution, you may want to try and describe it =)
If I disable copy to sent folder, then will Gmail save the sent copy ?
Gmail saves it by itself. What you're having is thunderbird saving a copy and then Gmail saving a copy again.
El 06/03/2010 13:06, Nilesh Govindarajan escribió:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Michishige Kaito<chris.webstar@gmail.com>wrote:
El 06/03/2010 11:53, Nilesh Govindarajan escribió:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Chris Hoeppner<chris.webstar@gmail.com
wrote:
On 06/03/10 11:23, Nilesh Govindarajan wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Chris Hoeppner<chris.webstar@gmail.com
wrote:
On 06/03/10 10:30, Xavier Chantry wrote:
On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Daniel J Griffiths (Ghost1227)
> <ghost1227@archlinux.us> wrote: > > > I use mutt with a nifty little binding that automagically jumps to >> the >> last >> blank line in the file when it opens a message for reply :P >> -- >> >> >> Well with mutt you can use a decent text editor which will allow you >> > do that very quickly anyway. > > > Most "decent" mail clients allow you to configure where to start typing when you press "reply". Not a big deal. Gmail breaks my logic. It's awesome, but I can't find a reason for it to not have bottom posting support. Hopefully they'll come up with a lab feature for it, so we don't have to rely on user scripts.
Do you have some script for it ?? I badly need it.
This[1] one was working fine last time I tried. The risk with these is
that they may break at any given time, depending on how Google updates the Gmail interface. On the other hand, it's just JavaScript, and not hard to adapt. At some point, I got annoyed with it, and switched to a desktop client using IMAP. YMMV.
It doesn't work anymore. I changed mail.google.tld to .com still doesn't work. I was also using Tbird as an IMAP client but, it doesn't do well when you have other accounts from which you download mail into Gmail skipping the inbox directly into a label.
Also it sends the same message twice. I.e. it once sends it through the SMTP server and then while saving it to the Sent folder. Double traffic. If the mail is a chain mail with big attachments, it sucks on slow connections. So I went back to web interface.
You can disable the "copy to sent" in Thunderbird, which would probably solve the problem you describe about "double traffic". I use the spanish version of TB, so the name may vary, but it translates to "folders and copies", under account settings, inside the tree view of the pertient account.
Maybe the issue you have with Gmail import has a similarly easy solution, you may want to try and describe it =)
If I disable copy to sent folder, then will Gmail save the sent copy ?
Gmail will save a copy of everything, no matter what you do in TB.
participants (16)
-
Aaron Griffin
-
Chris Hoeppner
-
Daniel J Griffiths (Ghost1227)
-
Denis Kobozev
-
Felipe Tanus
-
Giovanni Scafora
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gt
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Juan Diego
-
Linas
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Michishige Kaito
-
Ng Oon-Ee
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Nilesh Govindarajan
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Patrick Burroughs
-
Thomas Bächler
-
Ty John
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Xavier Chantry