[arch-general] vi from testing has gone nuts - does not honor virc/~.virc settings
Listmates, Devs: I upgraded to testing to test the new dmraid. As part of the upgrade, vi was changed in a BIG way. (I could hardly use the thing and I have been using it for 20 years) The screen flashes when you double-escape, in insert mode if you move to colum 1 things go nuts, insert mode is changed into some kind of vampire. None of the normal key mappings work, and I can't get my beloved vi back by restoring the virc from the virc.pacnew - GGRrrrr :-( How do I make my vi return to normal? What's the trick? If restoring the virc and changing the settings has no effect (I even logged out and back) Wher are the magic settings now? And... if the version I have can't be made to behave like my normal vi/vim again, "Then what is the proper way to downgrade vi so I can get my friend back? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
Am Montag 22 Juni 2009 schrieb David C. Rankin:
Listmates, Devs:
I upgraded to testing to test the new dmraid. As part of the upgrade, vi was changed in a BIG way. (I could hardly use the thing and I have been using it for 20 years) The screen flashes when you double-escape, in insert mode if you move to colum 1 things go nuts, insert mode is changed into some kind of vampire. None of the normal key mappings work, and I can't get my beloved vi back by restoring the virc from the virc.pacnew - GGRrrrr :-(
How do I make my vi return to normal? What's the trick? If restoring the virc and changing the settings has no effect (I even logged out and back) Wher are the magic settings now?
And... if the version I have can't be made to behave like my normal vi/vim again, "Then what is the proper way to downgrade vi so I can get my friend back? when using testing, install vim instead greetings tpowa -- Tobias Powalowski Archlinux Developer & Package Maintainer (tpowa) http://www.archlinux.org tpowa@archlinux.org
David C. Rankin wrote:
Listmates, Devs:
I upgraded to testing to test the new dmraid. As part of the upgrade, vi was changed in a BIG way. (I could hardly use the thing and I have been using it for 20 years) The screen flashes when you double-escape, in insert mode if you move to colum 1 things go nuts, insert mode is changed into some kind of vampire. None of the normal key mappings work, and I can't get my beloved vi back by restoring the virc from the virc.pacnew - GGRrrrr :-(
How do I make my vi return to normal? What's the trick? If restoring the virc and changing the settings has no effect (I even logged out and back) Wher are the magic settings now?
And... if the version I have can't be made to behave like my normal vi/vim again, "Then what is the proper way to downgrade vi so I can get my friend back?
The new "vi" is "nvi" which I agree is crap.... So you probably want to uninstall vi, install vim and symlink /usr/bin/vim to /usr/bin/vi. Probably have to change your config to /etc/vimrc but I am not sure about that. Allan
On Monday 22 June 2009 02:36:26 am Allan McRae wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
Listmates, Devs:
I upgraded to testing to test the new dmraid. As part of the upgrade, vi was changed in a BIG way. (I could hardly use the thing and I have been using it for 20 years) The screen flashes when you double-escape, in insert mode if you move to colum 1 things go nuts, insert mode is changed into some kind of vampire. None of the normal key mappings work, and I can't get my beloved vi back by restoring the virc from the virc.pacnew - GGRrrrr :-(
How do I make my vi return to normal? What's the trick? If restoring the virc and changing the settings has no effect (I even logged out and back) Wher are the magic settings now?
And... if the version I have can't be made to behave like my normal vi/vim again, "Then what is the proper way to downgrade vi so I can get my friend back?
The new "vi" is "nvi" which I agree is crap.... So you probably want to uninstall vi, install vim and symlink /usr/bin/vim to /usr/bin/vi. Probably have to change your config to /etc/vimrc but I am not sure about that.
Allan
Thanks Tobias and Allan, That is just what I needed to know! -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:55 AM, David C.
Rankin
On Monday 22 June 2009 02:36:26 am Allan McRae wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
Listmates, Devs:
I upgraded to testing to test the new dmraid. As part of the upgrade, vi was changed in a BIG way. (I could hardly use the thing and I have been using it for 20 years) The screen flashes when you double-escape, in insert mode if you move to colum 1 things go nuts, insert mode is changed into some kind of vampire. None of the normal key mappings work, and I can't get my beloved vi back by restoring the virc from the virc.pacnew - GGRrrrr :-(
How do I make my vi return to normal? What's the trick? If restoring the virc and changing the settings has no effect (I even logged out and back) Wher are the magic settings now?
And... if the version I have can't be made to behave like my normal vi/vim again, "Then what is the proper way to downgrade vi so I can get my friend back?
The new "vi" is "nvi" which I agree is crap.... So you probably want to uninstall vi, install vim and symlink /usr/bin/vim to /usr/bin/vi. Probably have to change your config to /etc/vimrc but I am not sure about that.
Allan
Thanks Tobias and Allan,
That is just what I needed to know!
The whole point of using testing is.. you should have known that already. :) -- Greg
On Mon 22 Jun 2009 10:59 +0300, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
The whole point of using testing is.. you should have known that already. :)
Very true. You should keep up with development if you're going to be running [testing] and be prepared to struggle through any issues. Problems shouldn't come as a total surprise anyways. It seems pretty heavy right now with readline rebuilds, bash 4.0, and vi.
Very true. You should keep up with development if you're going to be running [testing] and be prepared to struggle through any issues. Problems shouldn't come as a total surprise anyways.
Sure. But 'struggling though any issues" doesn't mean he has to do it without our help, no? I'm new here, but I'm not sure I agree with Gridorios sentiments exactly. David should indeed "expect issues" (and issues exactly of this kind, and worse) if he goes to [testing], but he's still invited to solicit help, and those who think he's beyond his depth, or who can make better use of their time contributing elsewhere, needn't bother themselves to respond. Is there a way for him to try the new 'dmraid' without going the whole way and migrating to [testing]. This would also be useful for him (and me) to know. Thanks, Scot
On Mon 22 Jun 2009 14:12 +0100, Scot Becker wrote:
Very true. You should keep up with development if you're going to be running [testing] and be prepared to struggle through any issues. Problems shouldn't come as a total surprise anyways.
Sure. But 'struggling though any issues" doesn't mean he has to do it without our help, no? I'm new here, but I'm not sure I agree with Gridorios sentiments exactly. David should indeed "expect issues" (and issues exactly of this kind, and worse) if he goes to [testing], but he's still invited to solicit help, and those who think he's beyond his depth, or who can make better use of their time contributing elsewhere, needn't bother themselves to respond.
Sure, but you shouldn't complain about what happens to you if you jump into a river full of pirahnas, without first educating yourself about them (and how to protect yourself).
Is there a way for him to try the new 'dmraid' without going the whole way and migrating to [testing]. This would also be useful for him (and me) to know.
Pretty simple. Enable testing, install dmraid, disable testing. Then your testing is limited to those packages only. Don't --sync --sysupgrade on testing.
Excerpts from Loui Chang's message of Mo Jun 22 16:41:41 +0200 2009:
Is there a way for him to try the new 'dmraid' without going the whole way and migrating to [testing]. This would also be useful for him (and me) to know.
Pretty simple. Enable testing, install dmraid, disable testing. Then your testing is limited to those packages only.
While this works fine most of the time, when you run into problems and ask about it here or on the forums, the first thing that people tell you is: "you should either use [testing] all the way or not at all, since any particular package in [testing] might crucially depend in some other packages in [testing], and they don't get updated when you only update one particular package." Anyway, I still think it's a good idea to search the MLs and forums before asking for help here. Big chances are someone has already noticed/the change was announced in the dev ML.
On Monday 22 June 2009 02:59:08 am Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
Thanks Tobias and Allan,
That is just what I needed to know!
The whole point of using testing is.. you should have known that already. :)
Well my friend, when Tobias asked for assistance testing dmraid, I didn't hesitate to help. Sometimes, the best way to learn is to wade into the frigid water ;-) Not to mention, some of the rather basic questions or feedback regarding changes to vi and readline, and the reference they provide in the list archives, may just help another with the same questions at some point in the future. Additionally, from what I glean from the current state of readline, there isn't anything 'concrete' to know at the present time other than it is 'changing' and there is quite a bit of debate about what it will ultimately look like and why... -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
David C. Rankin wrote:
Listmates, Devs:
I upgraded to testing to test the new dmraid.
Just my personal opinion here, and perhaps the devs will disagree, but personally I wouldn't suggest upgrading your entire box to testing. If you only want to kick the tires on one package from testing, then probably best to only install that. One of the things I like about Arch is how it keeps me on the cutting edge with very up-to-date versions of all the packages, but still manages to keep my system very stable. IMO, if you bump everything up to testing, you're going to lose a lot of that wonderful stability. DR
On Mon, 2009-06-22 at 12:06 -0400, David Rosenstrauch wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
Listmates, Devs:
I upgraded to testing to test the new dmraid.
Just my personal opinion here, and perhaps the devs will disagree, but personally I wouldn't suggest upgrading your entire box to testing. If you only want to kick the tires on one package from testing, then probably best to only install that.
One of the things I like about Arch is how it keeps me on the cutting edge with very up-to-date versions of all the packages, but still manages to keep my system very stable. IMO, if you bump everything up to testing, you're going to lose a lot of that wonderful stability.
DR
Using testing to -Syu your system every day, you should be a frequent reader of arch-dev-public, simple as that. Anything in testing could be broken, that's why it's testing. We abuse testing for testing out packages, but also for big todo tasks. I use testing on my system to do a pacman -Syu daily, but when the readline rebuilds started to enter testing, I decided to wait a bit before upgrading.
On Monday 22 June 2009 11:06:37 am David Rosenstrauch wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
Listmates, Devs:
I upgraded to testing to test the new dmraid.
Just my personal opinion here, and perhaps the devs will disagree, but personally I wouldn't suggest upgrading your entire box to testing. If you only want to kick the tires on one package from testing, then probably best to only install that.
One of the things I like about Arch is how it keeps me on the cutting edge with very up-to-date versions of all the packages, but still manages to keep my system very stable. IMO, if you bump everything up to testing, you're going to lose a lot of that wonderful stability.
DR
Thanks DR, I think I will work my way back out of [testing] while leaving dmraid 1.0.15rc intact. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Monday 22 June 2009 03:05:29 pm David C. Rankin wrote:
On Monday 22 June 2009 11:06:37 am David Rosenstrauch wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
Listmates, Devs:
I upgraded to testing to test the new dmraid.
Just my personal opinion here, and perhaps the devs will disagree, but personally I wouldn't suggest upgrading your entire box to testing. If you only want to kick the tires on one package from testing, then probably best to only install that.
One of the things I like about Arch is how it keeps me on the cutting edge with very up-to-date versions of all the packages, but still manages to keep my system very stable. IMO, if you bump everything up to testing, you're going to lose a lot of that wonderful stability.
DR
Thanks DR,
I think I will work my way back out of [testing] while leaving dmraid 1.0.15rc intact.
Disabling [testing] in pacman.conf and downgrading vi to 7.2.65-1 solved the problem. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 6:06 PM, David Rosenstrauch
David C. Rankin wrote:
Listmates, Devs:
I upgraded to testing to test the new dmraid.
Just my personal opinion here, and perhaps the devs will disagree, but personally I wouldn't suggest upgrading your entire box to testing. If you only want to kick the tires on one package from testing, then probably best to only install that.
One of the things I like about Arch is how it keeps me on the cutting edge with very up-to-date versions of all the packages, but still manages to keep my system very stable. IMO, if you bump everything up to testing, you're going to lose a lot of that wonderful stability.
The only problem is that you can not always upgrade just one package. Sometimes you also need to upgrade a set of related packages. And in case of big rebuild, that set might be the whole testing repo. As long as you are skilled enough to determine which packages you can safely pick from testing, there is no problem.
On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 10:14 +0200, Xavier wrote:
The only problem is that you can not always upgrade just one package. Sometimes you also need to upgrade a set of related packages. And in case of big rebuild, that set might be the whole testing repo.
As long as you are skilled enough to determine which packages you can safely pick from testing, there is no problem.
That's why you should follow arch-dev-public. At this moment we have a massive readline rebuild sitting in testing. So when you pacman -S one package from testing that pulls in readline, you know you're in trouble if you don't update everything. This issue will hit people also when the new readline moves to core btw. People will install a single package on their outdated system, pacman pulls in new readline, deletes old libraries and everything is dead, system unbootable, chroot not even possible as the shell binary is killed by missing readline.
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:38 AM, Jan de Groot
On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 10:14 +0200, Xavier wrote:
The only problem is that you can not always upgrade just one package. Sometimes you also need to upgrade a set of related packages. And in case of big rebuild, that set might be the whole testing repo.
As long as you are skilled enough to determine which packages you can safely pick from testing, there is no problem.
That's why you should follow arch-dev-public. At this moment we have a massive readline rebuild sitting in testing. So when you pacman -S one package from testing that pulls in readline, you know you're in trouble if you don't update everything. This issue will hit people also when the new readline moves to core btw. People will install a single package on their outdated system, pacman pulls in new readline, deletes old libraries and everything is dead, system unbootable, chroot not even possible as the shell binary is killed by missing readline.
init=/bin/dash The lightweight shell is good for something, rather than putting all your marbles in the bash basket. -Dan
participants (11)
-
Allan McRae
-
Dan McGee
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David C. Rankin
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David Rosenstrauch
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Grigorios Bouzakis
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Jan de Groot
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Jan Spakula
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Loui Chang
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Scot Becker
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Tobias Powalowski
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Xavier