On Sat, 2012-09-22 at 12:00 +0530, Aurko Roy wrote:

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Zhengyu Xu wrote:

...

Dear all,

After updating systemd to 191-1 in testing repo, I had following messages during booting and the process was stuck (crashed).

[ 10.539416] systemd[1]: segfault at 7d ip b75a97b7 sp bfb0ece8 error 4 in libc-2.16.so[b752a000+1a4000] [ 10.539700] systemd[1]: Caught <SEGV>, core dump failed.

Downgrade to 189-4 can solve this problem. I want to know if this is a personal problem or a general bug affecting others as well.

Best regards, Z.

Boots fine on my x86_64 desktop.

Thank you, I forgot to say that mine is i686.

On 22/09/12 21:39, Øyvind Heggstad wrote:

On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:37:26 +0900 Zhengyu Xu wrote:

...

On Sat, 2012-09-22 at 12:00 +0530, Aurko Roy wrote:

...

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Zhengyu Xu wrote:

...

Dear all,

After updating systemd to 191-1 in testing repo, I had following messages during booting and the process was stuck (crashed).

[ 10.539416] systemd[1]: segfault at 7d ip b75a97b7 sp bfb0ece8 error 4 in libc-2.16.so[b752a000+1a4000] [ 10.539700] systemd[1]: Caught <SEGV>, core dump failed.

Downgrade to 189-4 can solve this problem. I want to know if this is a personal problem or a general bug affecting others as well.

Best regards, Z.

Boots fine on my x86_64 desktop.

Thank you, I forgot to say that mine is i686.

For those interested in the actual problem at hand and not the trolling loser (unsubscribing == letting the troll win btw, so imo don't do it)

https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/31645

This is more informative... https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55213

On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 20:52:54 +0900 Zhengyu Xu wrote:

Hi Allan,

Thank you very much for the link as well as the removal of systemd i686 from testing repo. Sorry for generating some unnecessary noise in this list.

Best regards, Z.

Don't worry, you are not at fault in any way here, the systemd hateboy(z)/fudspreader(s) are.

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 9:11 AM, Heiko Baums wrote:

Am Tue, 25 Sep 2012 15:35:47 +0200 schrieb Øyvind Heggstad :

...

Don't worry, you are not at fault in any way here, the systemd hateboy(z)/fudspreader(s) are.

Wrong. The systemd fanboys who want to force this crap on everybody else are. The "fudspreaders", as you call them, have already made their (bad) experiences with Poetterix, and know that this is crap.

How long will we have to endure such nonsense? Heiko, you hijacked a thread just to tell your opinion, which everyone already know from your previous posts. And, please, don't reply to me. I don't care. Thomas, wasn't he banned? I just thought he was, because he was threat and, yet, was pretty harsh on his later reply. I really don't understand that. Of course, the list managers have all the freedom to do as they please, but a threat that is not upheld is counterproductive. -- A: Because it obfuscates the reading. Q: Why is top posting so bad? For more information, please read: http://idallen.com/topposting.html ------------------------------------------- Denis A. Altoe Falqueto Linux user #524555 -------------------------------------------

Heiko Baums writes:

"Hey, I don't like him and his opinion. So admins, ban him." Is it this what you want to say?

Using sarcasm like you did in your first message of this thread, and using words like "Poetterix" and "fanboys" is not stating an option. It's trolling. Also, hiding behind "I was just stating my opinion" is a common troll tactic too. No one wants to ban anyone for stating opinions, so you can stop repeating this false claim over and over. People want a troll to get banned, and that's what you are.

On 25/09/12, Felipe Contreras wrote: | There's a difference between using a strong tone, and being a troll. | | Using that definition, Linus Torvalds is a troll on the LKML. I disagree. The Linux kernel has never had a bug that has resulted in an un-bootable system. So as Heiko says, that is why systemd is worse than the kernel (it could also be my rose-tinted glasses). Let's wait for Heiko to release his perfect init system (which will be better than bash scripts, systemd, the kernel itself etc) because it will never fail or ever have a bug that results in a system being un-bootable. We'll have no chance to be total douchebags on mailing lists, and not report actual bugs because his system will never fail, at all, ever! You're a credit to humanity, Heiko, keep on truckin', sunshine. -- Simon Perry (aka Pezz)

On Tue, 2012-09-25 at 17:26 +0200, G. Schlisio wrote:

please stop it altogether. this leads nowhere.

Heiko, 13 mails, including the replies to the mails of the others. Others, 46 mails. Don't blame a single person. Useful input regarding to the subject, perhaps around 2 mails? If a "troll" would write something stupid about any other software, from any other coder, this never ever would cause such a useless and long thread. It needs "fans" to continue nothing. Superb, using systemd safes a few seconds at startup, time that can be used to write useless mails, just to diss each other. If startup would take some seconds longer, we perhaps would get less mails. Isn't that a good argument against systemd? This might be helpful http://lmgtfy.com/?q=arch+wiki+email+filter Regards, Ralf

It takes two to tango. Perhaps you need a reminder of the fair and balanced critique Heiko initially offered, based on a package in [testing], that has not made it to [core]:

https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2012-September/031151.h...

Double standards, considering what can only be described as anti anti-systemd users sending more 100% pointless and inflammatory mails and first with no threats of being top or part of the rediculous idea of a block list. -- _______________________________________________________________________ 'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface' (Doug McIlroy) _______________________________________________________________________

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Heiko Baums wrote:

Am Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:28:40 -0300 schrieb Denis A. Altoé Falqueto :

...

How long will we have to endure such nonsense? Heiko, you hijacked a thread just to tell your opinion, which everyone already know from your previous posts. And, please, don't reply to me. I don't care.

Thomas, wasn't he banned? I just thought he was, because he was threat and, yet, was pretty harsh on his later reply. I really don't understand that. Of course, the list managers have all the freedom to do as they please, but a threat that is not upheld is counterproductive.

What about banning you, because of writing totally bullshit which has totally nothing to do with systemd, because of just telling your hate against "systemd haters"? One more who wants to have other people being banned just because he doesn't want to read other people's opinions.

"Hey, I don't like him and his opinion. So admins, ban him." Is it this what you want to say?

Sorry, I really don't want to and won't continue this way, but I just had to answer to this. And, btw., no, I wasn't the one who got personal here. So don't blame me, blame Denis.

People, particularly the systemd fanboys, should really start opening their eyes and taking off their rose-colored glasses.

Have you read this? https://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2012-September/031182.h... Specifcaly, this part? "If I see you interrupting one more technical discussion with trolls and flames, you will be banned indefinitely without further notice. I will not see another one week flamewar on this list." Those are no my words, btw. -- A: Because it obfuscates the reading. Q: Why is top posting so bad? For more information, please read: http://idallen.com/topposting.html ------------------------------------------- Denis A. Altoe Falqueto Linux user #524555 -------------------------------------------

2012/9/22 Heiko Baums :

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:09:02 +0900 schrieb Zhengyu Xu :

...

After updating systemd to 191-1 in testing repo, I had following messages during booting and the process was stuck (crashed).

[ 10.539416] systemd[1]: segfault at 7d ip b75a97b7 sp bfb0ece8 error 4 in libc-2.16.so[b752a000+1a4000] [ 10.539700] systemd[1]: Caught <SEGV>, core dump failed.

Downgrade to 189-4 can solve this problem. I want to know if this is a personal problem or a general bug affecting others as well.

Why am I not surprised?

Yes, binary init system is so much better than a script based init system. And Poetterix is so damn good, so advanced, such an evolution and so much better than the common and over 40 years well tested sysvinit.

Don't you read the *important* word : testing ! Are you blind ?

Come on systemd fanboys, here you have the first example. There's more to come. I'll get my popcorn.

I'm not a systemd fanboy, neither an initscripts one. I'm using systemd and it works. I'm just waiting a little before upgrading my *working* version. Your words stinks like : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarrel_of_the_Ancients_and_the_Moderns Nothing new here since 1690, so...

Heiko

Are you stuck in 1690 or are we in the 2010's ? -- Frederic Bezies fredbezies@gmail.com

2012/9/22 Heiko Baums :

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:15:16 +0200 schrieb fredbezies :

...

Don't you read the *important* word : testing ! Are you blind ?

I read that. And what goes into [testing]? Yes! Bingo! Software version which are released by upstream as *stable*. So yes, upstream was supposed to have this tested before it went into Arch's [testing].

Ah ? First news here.

*rofl*

And how do [testing] users update their system when initscripts will be removed?

Just use another distribution.

How do you fix a borked Windoze systemd? Right, with a Windoze free LiveCD. How do you fix a borked systemd system? Right, with a systemd free LiveCD. *lol*

...

...

Are you stuck in 1690 or are we in the 2010's ?

Even in the 2010's it can be better to stuck with 40 years old, well tested software instead of switching to new crap.

Why walking if we can crawl ? Nonsense !

You don't consider that I'm not against new software and new versions, but I'm against crap.

So you should do a brain surgery quickly.

Heiko

-- Frederic Bezies fredbezies@gmail.com

2012/9/22 Jorge Almeida :

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 9:52 AM, fredbezies wrote:

...

2012/9/22 Heiko Baums :

...

You don't consider that I'm not against new software and new versions, but I'm against crap.

So you should do a brain surgery quickly.

Is this kind of behavior acceptable in a half-civilized environment? Together with the former "medical condition" diagnostic in this thread, this reminds a bit too much the policy in the late USSR of commiting dissidents to psychiatric facilities.

Jorge Almeida

I was fed up by the crap of the original poster. So I said what need to be written, even if it was a little hard. I will remove myself from this list, because it is no more than crap because of systemd haters. -- Frederic Bezies fredbezies@gmail.com

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:18:52AM +0200, Heiko Baums wrote:

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:11:12 +0200 schrieb fredbezies :

...

I was fed up by the crap of the original poster. So I said what need to be written, even if it was a little hard.

I will remove myself from this list, because it is no more than crap because of systemd haters.

Oh, other people's opinions and experiences are crap?

And yes, the systemd haters have good reasons to hate it, because systemd is crap exactly like PulseAudio. And, yes, most of the systemd haters have tested both themselves.

Heiko

way to go with kicking up a freeking troll fest! Is this gonna happen everytime systemd gets a bug? come on get off the systemd troll bandwagon & just ignore it, seeing as you don't use it!

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 10:19:42AM +0200, Tom Rand wrote:

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:18:52AM +0200, Heiko Baums wrote:

...

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:11:12 +0200 schrieb fredbezies :

...

I was fed up by the crap of the original poster. So I said what need to be written, even if it was a little hard.

I will remove myself from this list, because it is no more than crap because of systemd haters.

Oh, other people's opinions and experiences are crap?

And yes, the systemd haters have good reasons to hate it, because systemd is crap exactly like PulseAudio. And, yes, most of the systemd haters have tested both themselves.

Heiko

way to go with kicking up a freeking troll fest!

Is this gonna happen everytime systemd gets a bug? come on get off the systemd troll bandwagon & just ignore it, seeing as you don't use it!

And you need to "express" your opinion no matter what... The thread was silent since yesterday but people like you need to keep pouring more oil to the fire! If you consider him a troll, then add him to your ignore list. But at least do not reactivate dormant topics, just because you need to speak.

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:52:10 +0200 schrieb fredbezies :

Just use another distribution.

Do you think before you write? What exactly does this have to do with the distribution? Maybe I even would use another distribution if you tell me one Arch like binary distribution which doesn't and never will use systemd.

Why walking if we can crawl ? Nonsense !

If there was a serious and well working alternative to sysvinit then it would be nonsense. But this is not the case with Poetterix.

So you should do a brain surgery quickly.

I would recommend it to you, since you get personal. Heiko

* Heiko Baums wrote:

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 10:15:16 +0200 schrieb fredbezies :

...

Don't you read the *important* word : testing ! Are you blind ?

I read that. And what goes into [testing]? Yes! Bingo! Software version which are released by upstream as *stable*. So yes, upstream was supposed to have this tested before it went into Arch's [testing].

*rofl*

Yes...

And how do [testing] users update their system when initscripts will be removed?

How do you fix a borked Windoze systemd? Right, with a Windoze free LiveCD. How do you fix a borked systemd system? Right, with a systemd free LiveCD. *lol*

...

Are you stuck in 1690 or are we in the 2010's ?

Even in the 2010's it can be better to stuck with 40 years old, well tested software instead of switching to new crap.

You don't consider that I'm not against new software and new versions, but I'm against crap.

FULL ACK, Thank you :) Tino Reichardt Using Arch since the Widget Release!

... but i think we all agree openssl is worth keeping around, yes? such exceedingly high standards of "quality" and "stability" are simply unrealistic.

That all depends on your time to implement new functionality requirements.

systemd works pretty awesome for everything i've thrown at it, and minus a few kinks here and there, flawless as well. of course, YMMV, but i'd surmise 98% of those having difficulties are simply making some small error ... systemd, IME, pretty much does what you'd expect.

As 90% of systemd (especially the useful parts) is already catered for by other software such as all of the so called and incorrectly documented security benefits, this time to functionality just causes problems unnecessarily. Systemd has merits but as it is fundamentally flawed without a good enough reason because of such a large pid1 and dependence, there is no point in polishing it or me ever spending any time using it.

btw, per Allan's link, the guy who made himself more useful than any of us -- ie, by reporting (gasp!) the bug and including a patch -- concluded with this little gem:

"[...]

PS: I've been using systemd since v188 (w/o sysvinit) for desktop/laptops (and even in ramroots) and love it. The unit file syntax is nice and intuitive and things mostly work great out-of-the-box. This, is after several years of using Upstart, which worked adequately, but still was not as flexible as it should've been, and a was bit fragile.."

... just some food-for-thought is all.

We will ignore the noob and migrater barriers as this seems to apply to a lot of primarily linux software with more than a single binary (google required). Consider mounting a logical volume without prior reference by looking at the lvm page. The link between lvm and lvchange to enable mounting simply isn't there. I guess I'm used to the practicality of the excellent OpenBSD documentation, which is one of their goals however. -- _______________________________________________________________________ 'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface' (Doug McIlroy) _______________________________________________________________________

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 18:18:49 +1000 schrieb Allan McRae :

Medical condition?

I'm very fine. Thanks. Do I really need to say PulseAudio and Lennart Poettering? And do I really need to say "made my own experiences" (with PA and systemd, btw.).

Because we have never had unbootable systems due to upgrades in [testing] before...

And now you have them. Did you have even one totally unbootable system with sysvinit and initscripts? I doubt that.

You say "sysvinit" but that relied on many compiled binaries (e.g. bash)

And how many segfaults were brought to you by bash over all those years? And all the other binaries? Right, if one of them would really segfault (I've never seen this) the system would still be bootable, because then only this one binary segfaults, but not the whole initsystem. And if it's just one daemon, it can easily be deactivated like faulty parts of an initscript. But yes, it's so hard to debug those scripts. Now with systemd you can allegedly easily debug the systemd but you can't boot the system anymore to be able to debug systemd. *rofl* Heiko

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 18:52:01 +1000 schrieb Allan McRae :

Yes. A bash update in [testing] resulted in unbootable systems. I thought you were around then... maybe it just feels that long.

I never used [testing] except for once when I started with Arch. Yes, I once had a serious issue why I switched to the stable repos very quickly. But I don't remember what issue this was and I don't remember that bash once resulted in an unbootable system. Heiko

On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 18:18:49 +1000 Allan McRae wrote:

On 22/09/12 18:07, Heiko Baums wrote:

...

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:09:02 +0900 schrieb Zhengyu Xu :

...

After updating systemd to 191-1 in testing repo, I had following messages during booting and the process was stuck (crashed).

[ 10.539416] systemd[1]: segfault at 7d ip b75a97b7 sp bfb0ece8 error 4 in libc-2.16.so[b752a000+1a4000] [ 10.539700] systemd[1]: Caught <SEGV>, core dump failed.

Downgrade to 189-4 can solve this problem. I want to know if this is a personal problem or a general bug affecting others as well.

Why am I not surprised?

Medical condition?

...

Yes, binary init system is so much better than a script based init system. And Poetterix is so damn good, so advanced, such an evolution and so much better than the common and over 40 years well tested sysvinit.

Come on systemd fanboys, here you have the first example. There's more to come. I'll get my popcorn.

Because we have never had unbootable systems due to upgrades in [testing] before... You say "sysvinit" but that relied on many compiled binaries (e.g. bash)

Allan

Makes me wonder if this list is populated by the same bunch we get on the Ham repairs list , Just cant comment and sod off got to keep going and going flogging dead horses . For all it matters systemd completely refuses to boot for me do i care ***K as like do i cus i can see it's trash right now so dont use it leave it at that . Pete -- Linux 7-of-9 3.5.4-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat Sep 15 08:12:04 CEST 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:00:59 +0200 schrieb "G. Schlisio" :

please stop trolling on this list. this is very disturbing and already resultet in devs unsubscribing from this list.

Sorry, but this is not trolling. This is just telling that I told it before, when almost everybody laughed at me and claimed how good and superior systemd is (an evolution *lol*). Now they have their first technical proof that it is not. And that's what they all always called for. Now they have it. Heiko

On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:17:31 +0200 fredbezies wrote:

Let's dump every single technology younger the original unix one. This is better. You're a troll, nothing less.

/me unsuscribe. Fed up with your crap and your lies.

Please do, because just in a few minutes of posting scatological and personal comments, you made me think of doing just the same... Surely no matter what one thinks of systemd, it must be a topic that can be discussed on the mailing list without sinking to the level of a 5 year old... -- Joakim

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Sven-Hendrik Haase wrote:

Doesn't seem to be possible with Heiko around. Since nobody seems happy with banning him, I'm also unsubscribing.

Hey come on, cool down, what would be of us, mere n00bs? Come on O_O

On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 14:52:53 +0530, Joakim Hernberg wrote:

On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:17:31 +0200 fredbezies wrote:

...

Let's dump every single technology younger the original unix one. This is better. You're a troll, nothing less.

/me unsuscribe. Fed up with your crap and your lies.

Please do, because just in a few minutes of posting scatological and personal comments, you made me think of doing just the same...

Surely no matter what one thinks of systemd, it must be a topic that can be discussed on the mailing list without sinking to the level of a 5 year old...

one troll can't do serious harm. it's when a bunch of others decide to take him on again & again that things get out of hand. just keep quiet! -- phani.

Am 22.09.2012 11:14, schrieb Heiko Baums:

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 11:00:59 +0200 schrieb "G. Schlisio" :

...

please stop trolling on this list. this is very disturbing and already resultet in devs unsubscribing from this list. Sorry, but this is not trolling. This is just telling that I told it before, when almost everybody laughed at me and claimed how good and superior systemd is (an evolution *lol*). Now they have their first technical proof that it is not. And that's what they all always called for. Now they have it.

Heiko

its ok to tell your opinion, thats not what i mean with trolling. impertinent exclamations and unconstructive i-always-told-you allegations do not help anyone to solve the problem. OTOHS its quite difficult ATM to get a constructive diskussion about arch init system, because it is already decides by our devs and a lot of people got strong feelings about this issue. so, please refrain from heating this whole thing up. thanks

READ THIS: please stop trolling on this list.

this is very disturbing and already resultet in devs unsubscribing from this list.

READ IT AGAIN:

please stop trolling on this list. this is very disturbing and already resultet in devs unsubscribing from this list.

GOTCHA? If you're bored go on and jerk off or anything else that suits you but _STOP_ vandalizing this list.

Am 22.09.2012 10:07, schrieb Heiko Baums:

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:09:02 +0900 schrieb Zhengyu Xu :

...

After updating systemd to 191-1 in testing repo, I had following messages during booting and the process was stuck (crashed).

[ 10.539416] systemd[1]: segfault at 7d ip b75a97b7 sp bfb0ece8 error 4 in libc-2.16.so[b752a000+1a4000] [ 10.539700] systemd[1]: Caught <SEGV>, core dump failed.

Downgrade to 189-4 can solve this problem. I want to know if this is a personal problem or a general bug affecting others as well.

Why am I not surprised?

Yes, binary init system is so much better than a script based init system. And Poetterix is so damn good, so advanced, such an evolution and so much better than the common and over 40 years well tested sysvinit.

Come on systemd fanboys, here you have the first example. There's more to come. I'll get my popcorn.

After the recent outbreaks, we have been discussing banning people from arch-general. At the time, the people we talked about had calmed down and everything went back to normal, so there was no point in going forward with it. However, your name just made top of the list. If I see you interrupting one more technical discussion with trolls and flames, you will be banned indefinitely without further notice. I will not see another one week flamewar on this list. You are a grown man (at least you look like one), so you should know that this kind of post adds nothing to the discussion, but starts yet another flamewar. Start acting like a grown man and keep it to yourself, unless you have something to say that's worth saying. I am completely against banning people, but at this point, it is either banning people or shutting down this list entirely.

Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:06:28 +0200 schrieb Thomas Bächler :

After the recent outbreaks, we have been discussing banning people from arch-general. At the time, the people we talked about had calmed down and everything went back to normal, so there was no point in going forward with it. However, your name just made top of the list.

And, btw., instead of threatening and banning people with different opinions you rather should take their criticisms serious and take them as an incentive to improve Arch Linux and to make it better instead of worse. Heiko

On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 16:22:06 +0200 Alexandre Ferrando wrote:

On 22 September 2012 16:20, Heiko Baums wrote:

...

And, btw., instead of threatening and banning people with different opinions you rather should take their criticisms serious and take them as an incentive to improve Arch Linux and to make it better instead of worse.

Heiko

They're not going to ban anyone for having a different opinion, but for trolling.

Please explain just who has trolled .. i saw an opinion about systemd thats about all .. Pete -- Linux 7-of-9 3.5.4-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat Sep 15 08:12:04 CEST 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux

...

On 22 September 2012 16:20, Heiko Baums wrote:

...

And, btw., instead of threatening and banning people with different opinions you rather should take their criticisms serious and take them as an incentive to improve Arch Linux and to make it better instead of worse.

Heiko

They're not going to ban anyone for having a different opinion, but for trolling.

Please explain just who has trolled .. i saw an opinion about systemd thats about all ..

My thoughts exactly, but I summised that the tone of the comment was deemed to invite Trolls. I wondered whether, if the comment had been +1 for pid 1 being simple cross platform and redundant Would it have been trolling too and got me banned. Though I care about that less and less every day of late. -- _______________________________________________________________________ 'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface' (Doug McIlroy) _______________________________________________________________________

Am Wed, 26 Sep 2012 10:28:20 +0200 schrieb Thomas Bächler :

This is not about opinions at all.

No, this is about opinions. Well, not only about opinions, also or rather about personal experience.

Everything useful that is to say about this topic has been said. All that can be added are flames. You restart a discussion that will lead nowhere, and you know that. That is trolling, and trolling will not be tolerated any longer.

And this is not trolling. This (my initial comment) just had to be said to open the systemd fanboys' eyes and to show them that their so super superior evolution is apparently not so superior and not such an evolution, and that upstream (Lennart) is probably not the best developer. And all my answers have been just corrections of the worst bullshit and totally false allegations. That's not trolling, too. And, yes, those systemd fanboys are the ones who make the most noise, and who are totally blinded. The trolling comes only from the systemd fanboys like Denis A. Altoe Falqueto, who really said nothing not even systemd related, who just flamed and write hate mails about people who don't like systemd and who criticize systemd. This is trolling and flaming. See also Denis' blog to which he sent a link in his last e-mail. And read particularly the comments, especially the one written by njanja (even if the tone is not the nicest) and Denis' reply to it. It speaks volumes, especially about Denis' attitude which is the attitude of most of those systemd fanboys. So if you want to ban someone then ban the real trolls who really always stir the flame up. Heiko

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Heiko Baums wrote:

Heiko

Most of the time is not what you say but rather how you say it - your tone. The Frenchs have a saying for that: "The tone makes to the song" or in its original: "C'est le ton qui fait la chanson".

On 30/09/12 09:32, Heiko Baums wrote:

schrieb Martín Cigorraga :

<snip> The replies by Martin and Heiko had not technical aspect and were not asking for help. Both accounts are banned for one week. Allan

On 01/10/12 11:21, Armando M. Baratti wrote:

On 29-09-2012 20:41, Allan McRae wrote:

...

On 30/09/12 09:32, Heiko Baums wrote:

...

schrieb Martín Cigorraga : <snip>

The replies by Martin and Heiko had not technical aspect and were not asking for help. Both accounts are banned for one week.

Allan

Authoritarian and despotic.

My ban, please.

Done... and for two weeks because I had to look up what despotic meant.

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:49 AM, gt wrote:

On Mon, Oct 01, 2012 at 11:49:05AM +1000, Allan McRae wrote:

...

On 01/10/12 11:21, Armando M. Baratti wrote:

...

Authoritarian and despotic.

My ban, please.

Done... and for two weeks because I had to look up what despotic meant.

lol, always keep a dictionary handy. May I suggest sdcv.

This poster should also be banned, since this post doesn't call for help nor offers it. Oops... Mine too... Now I've done it! ("The life of Brian", anyone? The lapidation sketch? Oops again: I hope Allan McRae is familiar with the word "lapidation", or it's two weeks for me too.) Jorge Almeida

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Allan McRae wrote:

On 01/10/12 20:23, Jorge Almeida wrote:

...

("The life of Brian", anyone? The lapidation sketch? Oops again: I hope

Lapidation fails when I can just punish everyone... I am more than happy to just close the list again.

In the lapidation sketch, the fun was that speaking of the commited sin was a sin in itself (metalanguage, and all that), even when the judge himself did the speaking. My message meant no more :) Jorge Almeida

On 3 October 2012 00:18, Your Real Name wrote:

On Mon, Oct 01, 2012 at 08:29:38PM +1000, Allan McRae wrote:

...

On 01/10/12 20:23, Jorge Almeida wrote:

...

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:49 AM, gt wrote:

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On Mon, Oct 01, 2012 at 11:49:05AM +1000, Allan McRae wrote:

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On 01/10/12 11:21, Armando M. Baratti wrote:

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Authoritarian and despotic.

My ban, please.

Done... and for two weeks because I had to look up what despotic meant.

lol, always keep a dictionary handy. May I suggest sdcv.

This poster should also be banned, since this post doesn't call for help nor offers it.

Oops... Mine too... Now I've done it!

("The life of Brian", anyone? The lapidation sketch? Oops again: I hope Allan McRae is familiar with the word "lapidation", or it's two weeks for me too.)

Lapidation fails when I can just punish everyone... I am more than happy to just close the list again.

I have not because I am not "prone to panic attacks". (Hi Pete! - here is your answer who those emails go to)

Allan

I'm down for seeing the list get closed again, or at least a banning free-for-all. The forum mods wouldn't tolerate this kind of childish bullshit; I don't see why the devs/ML mods need to. There are plenty of places online to complain, the support list doesn't need this.

[quote]the support list doesn't need this.[/quote] I too am fed up with all the dross and i only been here a few weeks, i mean nobody is forcing anyone to use arch, if people dont agree with the way its heading either jump ship to another distro , or god forbid maybe even add something constructive to arch. -- www.cirrusminor.info http://cirrusminor.info http://www.cirrusminor.info/ http://www.cirrusminor.info/ http://www.cirrusminor.info/

On Sat, 22 Sep 2012 12:42:17 -0400 Loui Chang wrote:

On Sat 22 Sep 2012 15:06 +0200, Thomas Bächler wrote:

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Am 22.09.2012 10:07, schrieb Heiko Baums:

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Am Sat, 22 Sep 2012 15:09:02 +0900 schrieb Zhengyu Xu :

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After updating systemd to 191-1 in testing repo, I had following messages during booting and the process was stuck (crashed).

[ 10.539416] systemd[1]: segfault at 7d ip b75a97b7 sp bfb0ece8 error 4 in libc-2.16.so[b752a000+1a4000] [ 10.539700] systemd[1]: Caught <SEGV>, core dump failed.

Downgrade to 189-4 can solve this problem. I want to know if this is a personal problem or a general bug affecting others as well.

Why am I not surprised?

Yes, binary init system is so much better than a script based init system. And Poetterix is so damn good, so advanced, such an evolution and so much better than the common and over 40 years well tested sysvinit.

Come on systemd fanboys, here you have the first example. There's more to come. I'll get my popcorn.

After the recent outbreaks, we have been discussing banning people from arch-general. At the time, the people we talked about had calmed down and everything went back to normal, so there was no point in going forward with it. However, your name just made top of the list.

If I see you interrupting one more technical discussion with trolls and flames, you will be banned indefinitely without further notice. I will not see another one week flamewar on this list.

You are a grown man (at least you look like one), so you should know that this kind of post adds nothing to the discussion, but starts yet another flamewar. Start acting like a grown man and keep it to yourself, unless you have something to say that's worth saying.

I am completely against banning people, but at this point, it is either banning people or shutting down this list entirely.

I would petition that he be fully banned from all arch lists, forum, irc, etc.

dev/nulled. -- Linux 7-of-9 3.5.4-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Sat Sep 15 08:12:04 CEST 2012 x86_64 GNU/Linux

On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Tom Gundersen wrote:

Hi Heiko,

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Heiko Baums wrote:

...

Why am I not surprised?

Why should you be? I'm not. I don't think anyone finds it surprising that software has bugs, or that actively developed software has the occasional regression. It will happen from time to time, even with systemd. It will happen more with systemd than with sysvinit. The reason is that sysvinit is no longer being developed, and no changes means no regressions. No surprises here.

...

Yes, binary init system is so much better than a script based init system.

The correct comparison would be with sysvinit and not with initscript (as the bug is in PID1 and not in any of the helpers/serivce files).

...

And Poetterix is so damn good, so advanced, such an evolution and so much better than the common and over 40 years well tested sysvinit.

Come on systemd fanboys, here you have the first example. There's more to come. I'll get my popcorn.

I hope you realise that when you speak of "Poetterix" and "fanboys" you are being a troll (there is no "opinion" in here, just inflamatory rhetoric). You are trying to make people angry rather than contribute to the discussion.

As a whole, your message did not add anything useful, as you merely said "I told you so". We all are able to see that there was a bug, we all are able to see that this is very unfortunate. However, no one expected bugs never to happen in testing. It happens in all software, from the kernel up. We obviously strive to make it a rare occurrence, but especially architecture-specific bugs might be hard to catch.

I'd respectfully request you to stay on-topic and constructive in your future contributions to this mailinglist.

Cheers,

Tom

Well said.... -- mike c