[arch-general] [off-topic] Alternative to Thunderbird, with GPG support, caldav + cardav support, and ics remote webcal support and syncing
Hi ! I'm looking for a mail client integrated with a calendar system and a contacts system, that works on both GNU+Linux and Windows, hopefully not Thunderbird, Kontact (Kmail + Korganizer + Kaddressbook), neither Evolution. I'm looking for a client which supports and uses GPG and its keyring and agent, for signing and recognizing signatures, encrypting and decrypting, and that supports autocrypt (autocrypt is pretty important to me). I'm also looking for integration with calendar, being able to receive invitations and events via email, and adding them to the calendar if wanted. The calendar must be able to add and keep in sync caldav remote calendars as well as ics remote web calendars (syncing them periodically, being able to set the period up, and the ics included calendars can be read only, but not the caldav ones). I'm also looking for integration with contacts, and the contact must be able to add and keep in sync cardav remote contancts. Until Thunderbird v68, it was the option through the enigmail, lightning and the cardbook extensions, but I really don't want to keep using Thunderbird v78 and beyond any more. I don't like several design decisions made by the Thunderbird team, regarding how they'll handle PGP, like not using the GPG keyring, not using the GPG agent, not integrating with GPG in general, and neither supporting autocrypt initially (which should be a must to release, or so I think, even K9 for android supports it). I understand Kontact is close, it even works on Windows, but besides the fact I don't like the bunch of dependencies brought to the system by it, neither its Akonadi sort of DB, I never got it syncing ics remote web calendars and I really don't know if one can't set autocrypt for it. I really never liked Evolution either, so that really is less of an option for me, but besides it doesn't work on windows that I know of. I'd prefer Qt applications, but that's just a preference, not a requirement. I was investigating about Trojitá, to see if it would integrate with other applications it doesn't provide, but I found it can decrypt, but not encrypt, and it doesn't support carddav contacts, and even less keeping them in sync, so it was not worth investigating about calendars being able to extend the Trojitá functionality... Kube looked promising, but it's only for GNU+Linux and Mac (perhaps, though not officially supported BSDs). Are there any options for such client, or set of clients working together? Thanks ! -- Javier
On 9/11/20 5:18 PM, Javier via arch-general wrote:
Until Thunderbird v68, it was the option through the enigmail, lightning and the cardbook extensions, but I really don't want to keep using Thunderbird v78 and beyond any more. I don't like several design decisions made by the Thunderbird team, regarding how they'll handle PGP, like not using the GPG keyring, not using the GPG agent, not integrating with GPG in general, and neither supporting autocrypt initially (which should be a must to release, or so I think, even K9 for android supports it).
Note that Thunderbird still does support the GPG keyring for your private key material via a config option. -- Eli Schwartz Bug Wrangler and Trusted User
On 9/11/20 3:27 PM, Eli Schwartz via arch-general wrote:
On 9/11/20 5:18 PM, Javier via arch-general wrote:
Until Thunderbird v68, it was the option through the enigmail, lightning and the cardbook extensions, but I really don't want to keep using Thunderbird v78 and beyond any more. I don't like several design decisions made by the Thunderbird team, regarding how they'll handle PGP, like not using the GPG keyring, not using the GPG agent, not integrating with GPG in general, and neither supporting autocrypt initially (which should be a must to release, or so I think, even K9 for android supports it).
Note that Thunderbird still does support the GPG keyring for your private key material via a config option.
According to these: https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/09/openpgp-in-thunderbird-78 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/openpgp-thunderbird-howto-and-faq Only for private key operations, so not the GPG keyring for public keys. Actually Tunderbird v78 will keep keys in its own DB, and in order to import the keys once (not to keep them in sync) from current GPG keyring, assistance from Enigmail on migration is required. So v78 is quite different in functionality, with very little integration with GPG, and the only remaining one is just as a work around given Thunderbird v78+ lack of support for smartcard stored keys, and other keys which structures which are not compatible with RNP currently. Thanks ! -- Javier
On 9/11/20 5:51 PM, Javier via arch-general wrote:
Note that Thunderbird still does support the GPG keyring for your private key material via a config option.
According to these:
https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/09/openpgp-in-thunderbird-78 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/openpgp-thunderbird-howto-and-faq
Only for private key operations, so not the GPG keyring for public keys. [...]
Yes, that is why my message literally said "for your private key material". My point was that this might be good enough for you; it is good enough for some people. -- Eli Schwartz Bug Wrangler and Trusted User
On 9/11/20 4:01 PM, Eli Schwartz via arch-general wrote:
On 9/11/20 5:51 PM, Javier via arch-general wrote:
Note that Thunderbird still does support the GPG keyring for your private key material via a config option.
According to these:
https://blog.thunderbird.net/2020/09/openpgp-in-thunderbird-78 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/openpgp-thunderbird-howto-and-faq
Only for private key operations, so not the GPG keyring for public keys. [...]
Yes, that is why my message literally said "for your private key material".
My point was that this might be good enough for you; it is good enough for some people.
Sorry for the confusion. Then yes, I was aware. Just that I like the integration with GPG, its keyring, its agent, and not just some level of it for private keys, neither what Thunderbird ended up selecting to support PGP moving forward. I do understand the change might be OK for some, or even be consider much better than using GPG by some as well, if not all, but I'd really like to move away from Thunderbird. It's just hard finding options... Thanks ! -- Javier
On 9/11/20 3:18 PM, Javier wrote:
Hi !
I'm looking for a mail client integrated with a calendar system and a contacts system, that works on both GNU+Linux and Windows, hopefully not Thunderbird, Kontact (Kmail + Korganizer + Kaddressbook), neither Evolution.
I'm looking for a client which supports and uses GPG and its keyring and agent, for signing and recognizing signatures, encrypting and decrypting, and that supports autocrypt (autocrypt is pretty important to me). I'm also looking for integration with calendar, being able to receive invitations and events via email, and adding them to the calendar if wanted. The calendar must be able to add and keep in sync caldav remote calendars as well as ics remote web calendars (syncing them periodically, being able to set the period up, and the ics included calendars can be read only, but not the caldav ones). I'm also looking for integration with contacts, and the contact must be able to add and keep in sync cardav remote contancts.
Until Thunderbird v68, it was the option through the enigmail, lightning and the cardbook extensions, but I really don't want to keep using Thunderbird v78 and beyond any more. I don't like several design decisions made by the Thunderbird team, regarding how they'll handle PGP, like not using the GPG keyring, not using the GPG agent, not integrating with GPG in general, and neither supporting autocrypt initially (which should be a must to release, or so I think, even K9 for android supports it).
I understand Kontact is close, it even works on Windows, but besides the fact I don't like the bunch of dependencies brought to the system by it, neither its Akonadi sort of DB, I never got it syncing ics remote web calendars and I really don't know if one can't set autocrypt for it. I really never liked Evolution either, so that really is less of an option for me, but besides it doesn't work on windows that I know of.
I'd prefer Qt applications, but that's just a preference, not a requirement. I was investigating about Trojitá, to see if it would integrate with other applications it doesn't provide, but I found it can decrypt, but not encrypt, and it doesn't support carddav contacts, and even less keeping them in sync, so it was not worth investigating about calendars being able to extend the Trojitá functionality... Kube looked promising, but it's only for GNU+Linux and Mac (perhaps, though not officially supported BSDs).
Are there any options for such client, or set of clients working together?
Thanks !
BTW, I just realized kmail doesn't support autocrypt either, :( So defnitely kontact is not an alternative. -- Javier
Hi,
BTW, I just realized kmail doesn't support autocrypt either, :( So defnitely kontact is not an alternative.
did you stick on something now? I'm using Thunderbird for seveal years now, switched to Evolution for short times from time to time, but some things were also annoying like the big status bar which seems to be independent of the screen size and theme. I remember using Kontact 10 years ago and it was bloated and I got no idea why the whole Akonadi layers exists and if it would scale. Somehow it's a pity that Sylspheed / Claws and other clients are not capable of using CardDav/CalDav. Regards Bjoern
On 9/16/20 3:51 AM, Bjoern Franke via arch-general wrote:
Hi,
BTW, I just realized kmail doesn't support autocrypt either, :( So defnitely kontact is not an alternative.
did you stick on something now? I'm using Thunderbird for seveal years now, switched to Evolution for short times from time to time, but some things were also annoying like the big status bar which seems to be independent of the screen size and theme. I remember using Kontact 10 years ago and it was bloated and I got no idea why the whole Akonadi layers exists and if it would scale. Somehow it's a pity that Sylspheed / Claws and other clients are not capable of using CardDav/CalDav.
Regards Bjoern
It seems there are no alternatives, I'm afraid, :(. The closer keeps being Kontact, but Kontact, besides not supporting autocrypt, and being bloated, discontinued some time back its support to windows. It also has issues with ICS remote web calendars, it doesn't sync them, just load them statically without ever syncing them, which is an issue for work office365 ICS calendar, and others remote calendars requiring syncing from time to time. The only thing where Kontact (well Kmail) is the way, is its support for gnupg, which for me is a plus, since I don't want to keep public keys on the gnupg keyring as well as on a TB database, and I'd still prefer to use the gnupg agent. However given the lack of other features, plus not really liking akonadi, neither how bloated it is, then it didn't become the option for me unfortunately. The hope might be getting extensions that would enable autocrypt for TB in the future. But still, TB wouldn't be using gnupg, its keyring, neither its agent, so even if such extension would show up, it wouldn't be the option I was looking for, but perhaps the closest compromise available... Greetings ! -- Javier
participants (3)
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Bjoern Franke
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Eli Schwartz
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Javier