[arch-general] about the removal of that systemd symlink...

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[arch-general] Sound broken, using...

David Benfell

13 May 2013 13 May '13

5:32 a.m.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, I was alarmed, I think unnecessarily, when I saw the message that a symlink for systemd was removed on an upgrade. As near as I can tell, the boot sequence still relies on init, which links to the right place. Is there a better way to keep track of changes like this so I'm not surprised? Thanks! - -- David Benfell / benfell@parts-unknown.org Please see https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 for GnuPG information (or the attachment you don't understand) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRkHrTAAoJELJhbl/uPb4S6tcQAK/0+I/V2hLh94JZJG6XOgL7 FCgFxTz0SIm54xkiL+SeqI+6Zsf13eBneyf9udYqh9s08bSdHq+e9IgvrLkMVd3W vEu2uGN7tpB2zAvJVOxlplbTkDJzIh2C65KVlA8/4xhiGkhITtr/bdTflSxTG1Of dp3I+MDa1oE4HOQSXTtbnnFF6n1cnq94cGgGt7lFhds4yHaFNVkne1mGnoZ23mhp DJBKpIN+VM/rmFGnWjDHfW/LOE3Ic+UX5ClhcrnW1fT7U0GJuM2rrckYRl3HQ7/2 tRon9UDO7cmYNQG+E4TNH6fXAe3qT2/RLJkukIH4YikG5b51OPyh/MdV+I/j81sZ Wlh/duIVI7fhbRUdQUvhFPQ6VkTmnfzKHHwVXV0RoKdMCGn2mlifU3/ufBf56Lin D9adcI50RNN+uSTRclVSSZTP0RfgFulzCozZBYoAuNgbbhnPWTSFHNMygXQPieUc rbmg0/To9GCzRQ2IbCQiWBmEV5i+Pn7dFCphfApnk2/1NzpSFv1ieovRz0K0PgAd lYvtLkGT1JdDQAkoMTHnGPniF5oDXssQLoR+Zc+GYKVC49FmDttwItYmbQK4zuoN XUokpqOCy8WsllsZgq1yyjktkmymBYkU7Xa5s4NwzKLo/cdGGndqx5RgyQ/DtZDy dKTGByEE+J3UXG6JLxKm =QoPf -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Hussam Al-Tayeb

13 May 13 May

7:26 a.m.

On Sunday 12 May 2013 22:32:03 David Benfell wrote:

...

Hi all,

I was alarmed, I think unnecessarily, when I saw the message that a symlink for systemd was removed on an upgrade.

As near as I can tell, the boot sequence still relies on init, which links to the right place.

Is there a better way to keep track of changes like this so I'm not surprised?

Thanks! -- David Benfell / benfell@parts-unknown.org Please see https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 for GnuPG information (or the attachment you don't understand)

There was a post installation message.

David Benfell

9:16 a.m.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/13/2013 12:26 AM, Hussam Al-Tayeb wrote:

...

On Sunday 12 May 2013 22:32:03 David Benfell wrote:

...
Hi all,

I was alarmed, I think unnecessarily, when I saw the message that a symlink for systemd was removed on an upgrade.

As near as I can tell, the boot sequence still relies on init, which links to the right place.

Is there a better way to keep track of changes like this so I'm not surprised?

Thanks! -- David Benfell / benfell@parts-unknown.org Please see https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 for GnuPG information (or the attachment you don't understand)

There was a post installation message.

Yes, if I take your message correctly, that was the message that alarmed me. Since systemd is the new init, I wanted to be sure that booting would still work correctly. I haven't tried, but I'm guessing it will. I'm just wanting to be kept better abreast. Thanks! - -- David Benfell / benfell@parts-unknown.org Please see https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 for GnuPG information (or the attachment you don't understand) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRkK90AAoJELJhbl/uPb4SBdYP/RFqJenOCPb69GConmp3iTzm wcB/W0LXb85or24mnN6IlwmAiIva+QOn1pDok3NtUStWNuDGvcBDvFn544it1ePL SLgvDVqxQiaBKR+UsKbgM1ikLtwZVjx0m50D+20ckI/HHfjbnFbXjXIE01dvvBBL c+AhGQyx2Yn9C2Bv0S8Q/xI9R9oaGPxc9MUPrmQT6OIwtIdzjF+4uEgB5r+BDJMS HlyoqMQ0wJbau0NhNzwsxtiffXQq0sEIVwUyTdaDlsQW9Ge7lkX7VnMCchT2+bsY l/W7WWcOPUR+PdVctkFypj5Fpe6xkGEaSi3KOAN3sOX77+mHL81LSPtDipSgllOT nyaoJI9CWsf/zy1SkeVuybnIH+3ew636vR4zqR+2JpJxxlNWz1HqK7TdzyO8fEB8 /SaiU7mhaqznMdj9a2BlHr46gB41zoC3ZVQOSZhVoW6PSFCvQd2wJrd0VHmf1nTP k0FPIfNMi+UuhTgx9llXbN5yKy9nHU5PIV5aco1NBt11nn+C4dO0UKbFrsJW33Gy RPCohXukyWPWevrbjr1jp2QGN/yBQhqok+IKAZtS0/aA2VpMHkIsaHR5mcotYu8j pLdT+IgWOGje4xT8FhlvR7JC1AfuVIfyt1Paw9FIelnJXXuOawqhu61tinovd/yO TetC/wErACT1HPgYSC8K =aued -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Karol Blazewicz

8:03 a.m.

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:32 AM, David Benfell wrote:

...

Hi all,

I was alarmed, I think unnecessarily, when I saw the message that a symlink for systemd was removed on an upgrade.

As near as I can tell, the boot sequence still relies on init, which links to the right place.

Is there a better way to keep track of changes like this so I'm not surprised?

Thanks!

Not reading pacman's output may lead to problems. Why do you think it's a bad way?

Iru Cai

8:18 a.m.

2013/5/13 Karol Blazewicz

...

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 7:32 AM, David Benfell wrote:

...
Hi all,

I was alarmed, I think unnecessarily, when I saw the message that a symlink for systemd was removed on an upgrade.

As near as I can tell, the boot sequence still relies on init, which links to the right place.

Is there a better way to keep track of changes like this so I'm not surprised?

Thanks!

Not reading pacman's output may lead to problems.

Well, some people seldom read pacman's output. e.g. I use a cron job to use pacman to update the system, and I don't read the log very often.

...

Why do you think it's a bad way?

Maybe some people haven't installed systemd-sysvcompat and still use 'init=/bin/systemd' .

Thomas Bächler

8:19 a.m.

Am 13.05.2013 10:18, schrieb Iru Cai:

...

Well, some people seldom read pacman's output. e.g. I use a cron job to use pacman to update the system, and I don't read the log very often.

That's your own fault then.

...

...
Why do you think it's a bad way?

Maybe some people haven't installed systemd-sysvcompat and still use 'init=/bin/systemd' .

The wiki has told you to use init=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd for quite some time.

David Benfell

9:23 a.m.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/13/2013 01:19 AM, Thomas Bächler wrote:

...

The wiki has told you to use init=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd for quite some time.

When I was configuring the bootloaders (grub in two cases, gummiboot in another), I was following the installation instructions, and I didn't see this. Is it the Arch recommendation to add this kernel option at boot time? Or will /sbin/init point to /usr/lib/systemd/systemd for the foreseeable future? - -- David Benfell / benfell@parts-unknown.org Please see https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 for GnuPG information (or the attachment you don't understand) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRkLEJAAoJELJhbl/uPb4SMVEQALxb+98KQblHHGMCnerLYQQs kKXgd6GsXqhAEtjoRtntDz9lZO0ljC0nyXd6xKNOD1QzFTSV3XTN+L168Cdy9KBE 68Xy+fSkvHuR4/q9L/eK/vPByFzbHDWCrnqHzPwz2bbax+tsBQhmsk0lj7Z2tEMb GTpCvC0iskbU9aKuD/xXDaogyrzsIcR8PaKe18gW2Qxw9vW1XakU2B5MHlCFDMvD 9Dl6BIxcYtgUpciiYxflijJI5myZh9O6xAZQFmUd3TG23RqdCjhxi4oRUcGJLphJ q+5mC9Zv1Z5tNhjYjnoWSjpvtqdxFn9DcER+IuXcTw9s95Iq8TLb4+3zyw7hftHS oHcKKiM/cVCBO6kdGLG5iHx0AmjN/DxFrJxTECgfeU6TsvWZdIfHMRn0UZ6hIs3s Va6ys2s7NL8NqbGq7ed+3p2Klj2/b6UDsN3mkWt0GTD93zGgrPXMrudUZEQsQy9l kq9xRwRjcmfr3twgtkaNaKAUCF6XsxNN48l4ANShcZ/OkO7LT03ANwbbwvVcbAld 8EUL9jkrVOZuC2gvKiDIB9GTk+CGDROR3JVR8S41gr7NbrE84PcHqnQ+tOE0cJbh tVet4ptQT3P6gOlO1kxS6UBvQ3Z72kcmFUNBzi6eze3Vmq+fcsP7tgQag1743Pcr UGn7i9O8knJzitOp5ww7 =c0Lm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Thomas Bächler

9:32 a.m.

Am 13.05.2013 11:23, schrieb David Benfell:

...

On 05/13/2013 01:19 AM, Thomas Bächler wrote:

...
The wiki has told you to use init=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd for quite some time.

When I was configuring the bootloaders (grub in two cases, gummiboot in another), I was following the installation instructions, and I didn't see this.

At least, all places that used to say to use init=/bin/systemd have been changed to the new path.

...

Is it the Arch recommendation to add this kernel option at boot time? Or will /sbin/init point to /usr/lib/systemd/systemd for the foreseeable future?

As long as the kernel default for the init process is /sbin/init, we will keep probably the /sbin/init symlink for systemd. We may add /usr/lib/systemd/systemd to be the default in mkinitcpio and drop the /sbin/init symlink at some point (just a stupid idea of mine right now). In any case, booting a default installation without init= is supported and recommended, and we will make sure it keeps working.

David Benfell

10:14 p.m.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/13/2013 02:32 AM, Thomas Bächler wrote:

...

In any case, booting a default installation without init= is supported and recommended, and we will make sure it keeps working.

Good. That alleviates a lot of my concern. - -- David Benfell / benfell@parts-unknown.org Please see https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 for GnuPG information (or the attachment you don't understand) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRkWXRAAoJELJhbl/uPb4S59MP/Rz7nYSX174lrFrOZ916UITn 1eMBbPq4O/4FUKWpqQ6E5XNVHRohzfzuYbD8aLhDcSK58wMz0wDjdIjxqaCjw5dl O/V2BLDsEks0NaaLKdrrZSTtote8xPTzl5Y5iuJXEHO8t+3+DnddDFr6U+SeDKpE VDiUyELqL2aHNiO7JSHPHRrzjPK6h3G/xIWCXW6xvv2iz0Tcv/Rv5CfUS0oMqThC IQH2ZcQwR0Aw1dE4+S1l0dT4XQ0YLhIrRNt421iT35WhSp03yVl+cN842IQCzdQB tgX/nSfiKhZm9LAwJa0Abwb+SgvdaPF2VZDMhp04ZAzf6ZW7mi8mlWdVvs7RUlb+ AilE+jCDP3C82OQCysnbpCajER9Tw7V4l0MxV0VW0DhPh8VbuRQP7t7+ojij6WFr 9M0ibZH2hEVgzSd6LpTAD/NYeHtTA+TlilvFGcSZVlpOzOn2xYQRvcFAOBumUJsu ANAIluvldz+hhBdd89mfXVitWAc9sZL+7TI/f2xPzNZaGganSD7mv8LDA8kbdOUT 7BFQ7eSCdoStBz20cC7PBpOXluZq0p/+vmo1NBPfwk/x12FRsMEM6RyvlwB9lzxI VOUPO6owPbsS7KUVe3cPS2bzDHFIO3rH7BOvXY098bhV7gv1MfvikRtQG0zoJgS9 uPhj/ZZTUcPJujQKUaI0 =6x/W -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Damjan Georgievski

17 May 17 May

2:16 p.m.

...

...
Is it the Arch recommendation to add this kernel option at boot time? Or will /sbin/init point to /usr/lib/systemd/systemd for the foreseeable future?

As long as the kernel default for the init process is /sbin/init, we will keep probably the /sbin/init symlink for systemd. We may add /usr/lib/systemd/systemd to be the default in mkinitcpio and drop the /sbin/init symlink at some point (just a stupid idea of mine right now).

maybe the systemd-sysv-compat package can be integrated in systemd, as sysvinit is no longer supported in any way? -- damjan

Whiskers

13 May 13 May

12:04 p.m.

On Mon, 13 May 2013 10:19:36 +0200 Thomas Bächler wrote:

...

Am 13.05.2013 10:18, schrieb Iru Cai:

...
Well, some people seldom read pacman's output. e.g. I use a cron job to use pacman to update the system, and I don't read the log very often.

That's your own fault then.

...
...
Why do you think it's a bad way?

Maybe some people haven't installed systemd-sysvcompat and still use 'init=/bin/systemd' .

The wiki has told you to use init=/usr/lib/systemd/systemd for quite some time.

The pacman warning wasn't wasted on me; I had to edit my /boot/grub/menu.lst - one day, I'll change to a more modern boot manager. -- -- ^^^^^^^^^^ -- Whiskers -- ~~~~~~~~~~

David Benfell

9:18 a.m.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/13/2013 01:03 AM, Karol Blazewicz wrote:

...

Not reading pacman's output may lead to problems. Why do you think it's a bad way?

It's precisely because I *did* read pacman's output that I was alarmed. Like I say, I think it's okay. But I'd like to keep better abreast of changes--and especially the thinking that goes into them--so I understand the pacman output when I see it. - -- David Benfell / benfell@parts-unknown.org Please see https://parts-unknown.org/node/2 for GnuPG information (or the attachment you don't understand) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRkLADAAoJELJhbl/uPb4SnCQP+wU03UatdwyQlfs/wA/FTcz/ yz9iYVqtfb0lpkEBODO2GqW3fsu+MEYemic1dcS53xtxVdOOSMc3j2aiIU1MOw+d cvdUXJvFVv/wT4//8+msqx4zMKWTK1vU+ufWVW8JKJMxT445NjFC7Tacjzkxz6zH QHJm1cOH/MWzyBSBJ9ui/BNj+4Sbbivv0IzKuJcxw/CDJjMMMmUB+yd8Op1MP4bv ktpV/aLRHcoD5MEp2IA/JirHin759W9+84cDu60kMMJJD/pY6wZBJzwXjtwemOLl +6AcLtt1uvVeUvbo4jP9QUYm7jUw5ZGck1VjChBuVQrysZaHBWxBelXpxL1lnHPX 0QZDvwmC/tqwCAYCxKr9fOLWvZr90eC8ioOfo+NWWhQR9o2AaxJTzQ0Ef6iHOG8B 0QovcIu9lCLLIcviipdhYTmrxXxmt5B8bZrmQTSLBbv9T94PjBRE6qHigN8TskiZ e1yMUw7qzWaq/vFzQlfNQRju7KbOcITeCRYK3uwuFp9LLlnC5S2JWWU2Ahj26ont 9aprGVlS0EB13cE8mZdCYBp/ea1VYwmYHQtc9nqx/8noyMDrHx51DzyGT9SIE3oR JKNz7deSzwUsqk/nxbuxQwl0OaQvM3qwXM5VxejE0L2teAq2w48Fv+ilLW4PMjuN OfhHKp1ouvtFsjftarZ4 =ohCh -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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participants (7)

Damjan Georgievski
David Benfell
Hussam Al-Tayeb
Iru Cai
Karol Blazewicz
Thomas Bächler
Whiskers