[arch-general] xf86-video-nv question
Does anyone know how to control the nvidia fan when using this driver? Its the only thing I am not able to figure out and my video card starts getting really hot after a bit. I have tried sensors and it does not detect anything(fan related). I also did the pci prog, cant remember the name off hand not on my arch box right now. I know the CPU fans are GPIO fans, does that mean the nvidia one is as well and I can not control it? Keeping it on a cooling pad keeps things cool enough, but I would really prefer to keep using this driver for the time being with all the Xorg issues with the proprietary drivers, and I honestly think the nouveau ones are worse than the proprietary, NV has never let me down minus the heat issue on this one laptop. Card: GeForce 360m Thanks for your time
On 01/15/2012 08:32 AM, Don Juan wrote:
Does anyone know how to control the nvidia fan when using this driver? Its the only thing I am not able to figure out and my video card starts getting really hot after a bit. I have tried sensors and it does not detect anything(fan related). I also did the pci prog, cant remember the name off hand not on my arch box right now. I know the CPU fans are GPIO fans, does that mean the nvidia one is as well and I can not control it? Keeping it on a cooling pad keeps things cool enough, but I would really prefer to keep using this driver for the time being with all the Xorg issues with the proprietary drivers, and I honestly think the nouveau ones are worse than the proprietary, NV has never let me down minus the heat issue on this one laptop.
Card: GeForce 360m
Thanks for your time
don't use xf86-video-nv, use xf86-video-nouveau + nouveau-dri for 3d -- Ionuț
On 01/15/2012 12:20 AM, Ionut Biru wrote:
On 01/15/2012 08:32 AM, Don Juan wrote:
Does anyone know how to control the nvidia fan when using this driver? Its the only thing I am not able to figure out and my video card starts getting really hot after a bit. I have tried sensors and it does not detect anything(fan related). I also did the pci prog, cant remember the name off hand not on my arch box right now. I know the CPU fans are GPIO fans, does that mean the nvidia one is as well and I can not control it? Keeping it on a cooling pad keeps things cool enough, but I would really prefer to keep using this driver for the time being with all the Xorg issues with the proprietary drivers, and I honestly think the nouveau ones are worse than the proprietary, NV has never let me down minus the heat issue on this one laptop.
Card: GeForce 360m
Thanks for your time don't use xf86-video-nv, use xf86-video-nouveau + nouveau-dri for 3d
Cant I get the worst results using nouveau I have tried multiple times. Thanks though
On Sun, 2012-01-15 at 10:20 +0200, Ionut Biru wrote:
On 01/15/2012 08:32 AM, Don Juan wrote:
I honestly think the nouveau ones are worse than the proprietary
don't use xf86-video-nv, use xf86-video-nouveau + nouveau-dri for 3d
A lot of Nvidia users can't use the nouveau driver. It doesn't work for any task with some cards and for some other cards it can't be used for realtime pro-audio usage. I prefer the proprietary nvidia driver, but sometimes, e.g. at the moment for Arch Linux, I have to use the nv driver too, when nvidia can't be used even with a faked licence. It's good that Arch Linux still provide the nv driver, at least Debian dropped it, but it's known that nouveau doesn't work for many users, that there at least is the need to offend the GPL to use the proprietary driver with a kernel-rt, while at the same time an important DE will force people to use 3D acceleration. Regards, Ralf
2012/1/15 Ralf Madorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:
[snip] It's good that Arch Linux still provide the nv driver, at least Debian dropped it, but it's known that nouveau doesn't work for many users, that there at least is the need to offend the GPL to use the proprietary driver with a kernel-rt, while at the same time an important DE will force people to use 3D acceleration.
Regards,
Ralf
Slight deviation from the topic here, but relevant: Work is being done[1] to provide gnome-shell's functionality to users without the requirement of GPU acceleration, this is done through the LLVMPipe software rasterizer. This does place a SSE2 requirement on the CPU but that shouldn't be an issue these days. (pentium 4 and up, amd K8 and up) [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gnome_shell_software_rendering
On Sun, 2012-01-15 at 12:28 +0100, Stefan Wilkens wrote:
2012/1/15 Ralf Madorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net>:
[snip] It's good that Arch Linux still provide the nv driver, at least Debian dropped it, but it's known that nouveau doesn't work for many users, that there at least is the need to offend the GPL to use the proprietary driver with a kernel-rt, while at the same time an important DE will force people to use 3D acceleration.
Regards,
Ralf
Slight deviation from the topic here, but relevant:
Work is being done[1] to provide gnome-shell's functionality to users without the requirement of GPU acceleration, this is done through the LLVMPipe software rasterizer. This does place a SSE2 requirement on the CPU but that shouldn't be an issue these days. (pentium 4 and up, amd K8 and up)
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Gnome_shell_software_rendering
"Note that software rendering does require sufficient CPU power for a good experience." SSE2 is very resource hungry, so at least for audio usage GNOME is lost. I don't like the work flow when using GNOME3, but I'll install it again and test it, since Xfce without GNOME apps is also a PITA, e.g. the Xfce Terminal Emulator starts with a delay when I click the panel's window button. The terminal is the only app that has this delay.
On 01/15/2012 07:04 AM, Ralf Madorf wrote:
"Note that software rendering does require sufficient CPU power for a good experience." SSE2 is very resource hungry, so at least for audio usage GNOME is lost. I don't like the work flow when using GNOME3, but I'll install it again and test it, since Xfce without GNOME apps is also a PITA, e.g. the Xfce Terminal Emulator starts with a delay when I click the panel's window button. The terminal is the only app that has this delay.
I've found that turning off "startup notification" in Terminal's launcher eliminates the delay.
On Sun, 2012-01-15 at 14:53 -0500, Rob wrote:
On 01/15/2012 07:04 AM, Ralf Madorf wrote:
"Note that software rendering does require sufficient CPU power for a good experience." SSE2 is very resource hungry, so at least for audio usage GNOME is lost. I don't like the work flow when using GNOME3, but I'll install it again and test it, since Xfce without GNOME apps is also a PITA, e.g. the Xfce Terminal Emulator starts with a delay when I click the panel's window button. The terminal is the only app that has this delay.
I've found that turning off "startup notification" in Terminal's launcher eliminates the delay.
Thanks, unfortunately it already is disabled. There's always delay when maximizing the terminal window. There's sometimes delay when switching from another windows to the terminal window, dunno under what conditions this happens. Sometimes it's ok, but most of the times there's a delay, without changing anything.
On 01/15/2012 12:12 PM, Ralf Madorf wrote:
On 01/15/2012 07:04 AM, Ralf Madorf wrote:
"Note that software rendering does require sufficient CPU power for a good experience." SSE2 is very resource hungry, so at least for audio usage GNOME is lost. I don't like the work flow when using GNOME3, but I'll install it again and test it, since Xfce without GNOME apps is also a PITA, e.g. the Xfce Terminal Emulator starts with a delay when I click the panel's window button. The terminal is the only app that has this delay.
I've found that turning off "startup notification" in Terminal's launcher eliminates the delay. Thanks, unfortunately it already is disabled. There's always delay when maximizing the terminal window. There's sometimes delay when switching from another windows to the terminal window, dunno under what conditions
On Sun, 2012-01-15 at 14:53 -0500, Rob wrote: this happens. Sometimes it's ok, but most of the times there's a delay, without changing anything.
I have that same delay, I have tried a few different terminals to see if it was that but just gave up and have been living with it.
2012/1/15 Don Juan <donjuansjiz@gmail.com>:
Does anyone know how to control the nvidia fan when using this driver? Its the only thing I am not able to figure out and my video card starts getting really hot after a bit. I have tried sensors and it does not detect anything(fan related). I also did the pci prog, cant remember the name off hand not on my arch box right now. I know the CPU fans are GPIO fans, does that mean the nvidia one is as well and I can not control it? Keeping it on a cooling pad keeps things cool enough, but I would really prefer to keep using this driver for the time being with all the Xorg issues with the proprietary drivers, and I honestly think the nouveau ones are worse than the proprietary, NV has never let me down minus the heat issue on this one laptop.
Card: GeForce 360m
Thanks for your time
It seems likely that your card's power management features aren't supported by the -nv driver, NVIDIA dropped support for that in 2010 and no longer support the open source efforts. At the moment of dropping, the -nv drivers lacked proper randr, KMS and powersave support. I would say that you're simply running into the limitations of a somewhat outdated driver. Nouveau is slowly catching up and is supporting powersave features for newer models, but it's touch and go. You card is of the NV50 family, nouveau's PowerManagement feature Wiki[1] mentions support for frequency scaling to be "MOSTLY" done and fan speed to be "WIP". [1] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/PowerManagement You could try if the "mostly done" engine and memory re-clocking in its current state is enough to resolve your heat issues, but you may have to jump to the nvidia binary blob to have reliable power management.
On 01/15/2012 02:25 AM, Stefan Wilkens wrote:
2012/1/15 Don Juan<donjuansjiz@gmail.com>:
Does anyone know how to control the nvidia fan when using this driver? Its the only thing I am not able to figure out and my video card starts getting really hot after a bit. I have tried sensors and it does not detect anything(fan related). I also did the pci prog, cant remember the name off hand not on my arch box right now. I know the CPU fans are GPIO fans, does that mean the nvidia one is as well and I can not control it? Keeping it on a cooling pad keeps things cool enough, but I would really prefer to keep using this driver for the time being with all the Xorg issues with the proprietary drivers, and I honestly think the nouveau ones are worse than the proprietary, NV has never let me down minus the heat issue on this one laptop.
Card: GeForce 360m
Thanks for your time It seems likely that your card's power management features aren't supported by the -nv driver, NVIDIA dropped support for that in 2010 and no longer support the open source efforts. At the moment of dropping, the -nv drivers lacked proper randr, KMS and powersave support. I would say that you're simply running into the limitations of a somewhat outdated driver.
Nouveau is slowly catching up and is supporting powersave features for newer models, but it's touch and go. You card is of the NV50 family, nouveau's PowerManagement feature Wiki[1] mentions support for frequency scaling to be "MOSTLY" done and fan speed to be "WIP".
[1] http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/PowerManagement
You could try if the "mostly done" engine and memory re-clocking in its current state is enough to resolve your heat issues, but you may have to jump to the nvidia binary blob to have reliable power management. Thanks for the time and effort in the response but nouveau is worse than using nv for me. I will just live with the heat until I can go back to nvidias blob
:)
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 03:21:32 -0800 Don Juan wrote:
Thanks for the time and effort in the response but nouveau is worse than using nv for me. I will just live with the heat until I can go back to nvidias blob
It's *always* a dumb move to move fan control out of hardware and into software. I've had to resort to attaching a resistor to the fans wire in the past. -- Kc
On 16 January 2012 14:03, Kevin Chadwick <ma1l1ists@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[snip] I've had to resort to attaching a resistor to the fans wire in the past. [snip]
Or connect it to a potentiometer and have control of the speed. -- Thanasis Georgiou
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 14:55 +0200, Thanasis Georgiou wrote:
On 16 January 2012 14:03, Kevin Chadwick <ma1l1ists@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[snip] I've had to resort to attaching a resistor to the fans wire in the past. [snip]
Or connect it to a potentiometer and have control of the speed.
I thought that since we are away from Ataris, we don't need a fan control anymore, anyway: http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://coolcircuit.com/circuit/fan_controller/automatic__fan_controller.GIF&imgrefurl=http://coolcircuit.com/circuit/fan_controller/index.html&usg=__0gj-rPcDRlYeqo7LP42Sf6GAupE=&h=460&w=644&sz=8&hl=de&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=Ud3ZU4231DXQDM:&tbnh=162&tbnw=252&ei=Fj4UT_OuGJHKswbBxPQX&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dfan%2Bcontrol%2Bcircuit%26hl%3Dde%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DUIp%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dnp%26biw%3D1152%26bih%3D727%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Dimvns&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=379&vpy=165&dur=9865&hovh=190&hovw=266&tx=187&ty=67&sig=115928880652315582645&page=1&ndsp=13&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 16:14 +0100, Ralf Madorf wrote:
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 14:55 +0200, Thanasis Georgiou wrote:
On 16 January 2012 14:03, Kevin Chadwick <ma1l1ists@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[snip] I've had to resort to attaching a resistor to the fans wire in the past. [snip]
Or connect it to a potentiometer and have control of the speed.
I thought that since we are away from Ataris, we don't need a fan control anymore, anyway:
Oops, it was accidentally sent. http://www.google.de/search?q=fan+control +circuit&hl=de&client=firefox-a&hs=ix9&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=np&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ET4UT7rjGNHKswar1eQl&ved=0CCMQsAQ&biw=1152&bih=727 Better are controllers that increase the speed, the higher the temperature is.
On 16 January 2012 17:20, Ralf Madorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> wrote:
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 16:14 +0100, Ralf Madorf wrote: [snip]
I thought that since we are away from Ataris, we don't need a fan control anymore, anyway:
Oops, it was accidentally sent.
http://www.google.de/search?q=fan+control +circuit&hl=de&client=firefox-a&hs=ix9&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=np&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ET4UT7rjGNHKswar1eQl&ved=0CCMQsAQ&biw=1152&bih=727
Better are controllers that increase the speed, the higher the temperature is.
Indeed but I am not sure putting a thermistor (or whatever kind of sensor you have) on contact with the chip would produce the same results as the built-in thermometer. On the other hard if you can get temperature readings in software level you can send them to a micro controller (Arduino?) which will control the fans accordingly. I think we are a bit offtopic though :) .
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 17:28 +0200, Thanasis Georgiou wrote:
On the other hard if you can get temperature readings in software level you can send them to a micro controller (Arduino?) which will control the fans accordingly. I think we are a bit offtopic though :) .
A micro controller needs equipment and knowhow. A circuit easily can be build to cause a wanted minimal and a wanted maximal speed. For my AMD CPU and my PSU with a large fan and my passive graphics everything is ok by default, no home improvement needed. But it's not a Laptop, such issues seem to be more common for Laptops. Noise caused by the computer seldom is OT, since we are writing about graphics fan noise it's not OT for this thread :). Btw. if the fan now should be louder than it was some time ago, the cause might be dirt.
On 01/16/2012 08:07 AM, Ralf Madorf wrote:
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 17:28 +0200, Thanasis Georgiou wrote:
On the other hard if you can get temperature readings in software level you can send them to a micro controller (Arduino?) which will control the fans accordingly. I think we are a bit offtopic though :) . A micro controller needs equipment and knowhow. A circuit easily can be build to cause a wanted minimal and a wanted maximal speed.
For my AMD CPU and my PSU with a large fan and my passive graphics everything is ok by default, no home improvement needed. But it's not a Laptop, such issues seem to be more common for Laptops.
Noise caused by the computer seldom is OT, since we are writing about graphics fan noise it's not OT for this thread :).
Btw. if the fan now should be louder than it was some time ago, the cause might be dirt.
Yeah I do not feel like hacking up the brand new laptop to get fan control on the video card while I use this one driver. To me its not really that big of a deal its not like its overheating, especially once the cooling pad is on. Just figured I would ask since it is hard to find actual info about this driver on the net. Or at least I fail other than the basic info page, everything you read you hear people saying avoid it at all cost. But I am happy as is, especially since I can cleanly shutdown and reboot. I do not get the red screen of death or just the lock up killing X and the black screen with a blinking cursor. Love this list though, you guys have great info all the time !!
On 16-01-2012 15:14, Ralf Madorf wrote:
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 14:55 +0200, Thanasis Georgiou wrote:
On 16 January 2012 14:03, Kevin Chadwick <ma1l1ists@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[snip] I've had to resort to attaching a resistor to the fans wire in the past. [snip]
Or connect it to a potentiometer and have control of the speed.
I thought that since we are away from Ataris, we don't need a fan control anymore, anyway:
I doubt this circuit will work, at least not as it is. -- Mauro Santos
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 15:55 +0000, Mauro Santos wrote:
On 16-01-2012 15:14, Ralf Madorf wrote:
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 14:55 +0200, Thanasis Georgiou wrote:
On 16 January 2012 14:03, Kevin Chadwick <ma1l1ists@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[snip] I've had to resort to attaching a resistor to the fans wire in the past. [snip]
Or connect it to a potentiometer and have control of the speed.
I thought that since we are away from Ataris, we don't need a fan control anymore, anyway:
I doubt this circuit will work, at least not as it is.
Dunno, I sent the mail accidentally with an unwanted link. I don't think a circuit with a relay is a good idea. I could ask a friend for a good circuit. IIRC he build fan controls for Atari TT, Falcon and what ever else with QL emulators. My ST with another emulator never had and still has no fan and it's Lacom SCSI unit also has no fan. But in the old days fan controllers were common.
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 17:21 +0100, Ralf Madorf wrote:
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 15:55 +0000, Mauro Santos wrote:
On 16-01-2012 15:14, Ralf Madorf wrote:
On Mon, 2012-01-16 at 14:55 +0200, Thanasis Georgiou wrote:
On 16 January 2012 14:03, Kevin Chadwick <ma1l1ists@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[snip] I've had to resort to attaching a resistor to the fans wire in the past. [snip]
Or connect it to a potentiometer and have control of the speed.
I thought that since we are away from Ataris, we don't need a fan control anymore, anyway:
I doubt this circuit will work, at least not as it is.
Dunno, I sent the mail accidentally with an unwanted link. I don't think a circuit with a relay is a good idea. I could ask a friend for a good circuit. IIRC he build fan controls for Atari TT, Falcon and what ever else with QL emulators. My ST with another emulator never had and still has no fan and it's Lacom SCSI unit also has no fan. But in the old days fan controllers were common.
Btw. anybody here who ever used a Jochen Merz's QVME card http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sinclair_QL_clones ? He's a friend of the friend who build stuff like fan speed controllers. I'm happy that today, we have PCs with slot like PCI, PCIe and all that soldering usually isn't needed anymore.
On Sat, 2012-01-14 at 22:32 -0800, Don Juan wrote:
Does anyone know how to control the nvidia fan when using this driver? [snip] Card: GeForce 360m
Fortunately my graphics is passive. Regarding to your issue I did some research on German. I didn't find how to solve your issue, but I read a report that the fan for this integrated laptop graphics is known as loud. 44dB for averaged usage and heavy usage. 35 dB when just watching a video from DVD, this should be as loud as the ticking of an (old?) alarmer. Regards, Ralf
On 01/15/2012 02:46 AM, Ralf Madorf wrote:
On Sat, 2012-01-14 at 22:32 -0800, Don Juan wrote:
Does anyone know how to control the nvidia fan when using this driver? [snip] Card: GeForce 360m Fortunately my graphics is passive. Regarding to your issue I did some research on German. I didn't find how to solve your issue, but I read a report that the fan for this integrated laptop graphics is known as loud. 44dB for averaged usage and heavy usage. 35 dB when just watching a video from DVD, this should be as loud as the ticking of an (old?) alarmer.
Regards,
Ralf
Really? Never had a noise issue with these fans. Even with proper power management there is not really loud noise. Or maybe I am just that deaf these days :P I will be just living with the heat until my normal set up goes back to working. nv is good enough for now.
participants (8)
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Don Juan
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Ionut Biru
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Kevin Chadwick
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Mauro Santos
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Ralf Madorf
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Rob
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Stefan Wilkens
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Thanasis Georgiou