On 5 Oct 2009 at 15:13, Sergej Pupykin wrote:

Hi,

I have start Web_application_package_guidelines.

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Web_application_package_guidelines

I suggest to discuss and improve our web packaging standard.

PS. to avoid discussion about webapps useless.

There are (at least) - phpmyadmin - phpldapadmin - phppgadmin which have no need in multiple instances on different virtual hosts and useful even on localhost.

Last night after I did yaourt -Syu my php stopped working and this time I din't see any news about things I should fix to get it working again. Already thinking about switching to some other OS. It's became annoying already to always fix something after -Syu. -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org

On 5 Oct 2009 at 21:26, Allan McRae wrote:

It would be best to start a new thread rather than replying to a completely unrelated one.

Jozsef wrote:

...

Last night after I did yaourt -Syu my php stopped working and this time I din't see any news about things I should fix to get it working again.

Did you read the news about php on the front page of the website?

...

Already thinking about switching to some other OS. It's became annoying already to always fix something after -Syu

Feel free...

Yes i read that and I did that changes last time I did -Syu and apache and PHP start working again. But last night it didn't happen. I just didn't try to do anything regarding: *module path is now /usr/lib/php/modules Will try that tonight. If it won't work I'll feel free :) Just sad I spent so much time for configuring and setting up such a nice OS and now I have to leave it. Eh! That's life. -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org

On 5 Oct 2009 at 15:46, Sergej Pupykin wrote:

This is your karma or badly synced mirror. :)

On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Jozsef wrote:

...

Yes i read that and I did that changes last time I did -Syu and apache and PHP start working again. But last night it didn't happen. I just didn't try to do anything regarding: *module path is now /usr/lib/php/modules

Will try that tonight. If it won't work I'll feel free :)

Just sad I spent so much time for configuring and setting up such a nice OS and now I have to leave it. Eh! That's life.

-- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org

I had a problem with badly synced mirror. That's true. Then I change mirrors and start over. I got PHP again, what was strange since I already got PHP with that badly synced mirror. But the problem was with OpenOffice not with PHP. And nothing helped for getting Ooo from new mirror again. I just remove it and did -Syu without Ooo Just don't understand why did I get PHP again from new mirror since I already had PHP downloaded. The same version :) Maybe karma :)) Karma or not, I need a good, stable and working OS. -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org

On 5 Oct 2009 at 16:19, Sergej Pupykin wrote:

...

...

Karma or not, I need a good, stable and working OS.

Arch is bleeding edge, not stable.

btw you may try Rock Stable Arch (if it is still alive)

I like that it is bleeding edge but still it's not testing version. What is the function of Arch distro? For fun? Will google for Rock Stable Arch. Thanks. Was thiking about PC-BSD. -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org

On 5 Oct 2009 at 14:18, David Houston wrote:

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I like that it is bleeding edge but still it's not testing version. What is the function of Arch distro? For fun?

Your kidding right? KISS.... I think that Arch functions really well at being bleeding edge and stable.. further more.... your using aur. Not that there is anything wrong with that but things break from time to time, I would of put this down for a reason to distro hop.

...

Will google for Rock Stable Arch. Thanks.

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Enhancing_Arch_Linux_Stability

...

Was thiking about PC-BSD.

Thats a toy!

Yes Arch functions great! But why I need always to fix something after Syu? It's just annoying. Really. As I said once before, I'm not a programmer or linux developer. I just need an OS which is working and it's stable. Nice, good. What I want to say is: Arch is bleading edge but there is a testing version as well right? So if I run testing version I can expect things not working, goes wrong and so on. Of course, with regular release I can expect the same, but not after each Syu, right? I'm using AUR and never had an issue with apps from AUR. Thanks for that link. Very useful. I got an idea to remove PHP completelly and to start over. Maybe it would work that way. I don't know. But I really had an issue with badly synced mirror. So, each time before Syu I need to update my mirrorlist as well :P What's wrong with PC-BSD? It's based on FreeBSD which is very good OS in my opinion. NetBSD is also great, but for servers. -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org

On 5 Oct 2009 at 18:43, Sergej Pupykin wrote:

...

...

Was thiking about PC-BSD.

...

Thats a toy!

Let's give him a chance to sort out more distros and come back to arch :)

:) You are right about Linux. Arch is the best for sure. And I tried already many linux distros. Didn't try them all of course, but many of them I did. Maybe Sabayon and Pardus are worth of try. Will see about that later. But what I didn't try yet is BSD. I mean for longer period of time, like few months or something. -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org

When using Arch as a server distro, you HAVE to be prepared to revert packages back that bork things, php/apache/mysq/ etc..... this isn't hard at all. I ran into the same php issues, and have yet to complete the upgrade, I simply reverted the package back, and set it to ignore in the upgrade list. I LOVE arch for servers, you just have to use a bit of common sense when doing upgrades. Especially if the servers are like mine, remote servers. However, I have run into much tougher issues when using other versions of Linux to do the same thing. In the end, the trade off of stability vs. bleeding edge, I much prefer the bleeding edge stuff. The most current patches for security are usually implemented, and while at times it breaks a few things you have to fix, many times your going to run into the same issue down the road with a stable system too, patches that break things, at least with the bleeding edge stuff, I have the newest security fixes in place..... so, I prefer to deal with one or two issues per year myself, and have the latest releases of the applications. Just my opinion, ymmv. Crouse On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Jozsef wrote:

On 5 Oct 2009 at 18:43, Sergej Pupykin wrote:

...

 >> Was thiking about PC-BSD.

 >Thats a toy!

Let's give him a chance to  sort out more distros and come back to arch :)

:) You are right about Linux. Arch is the best for sure. And I tried already many linux distros. Didn't try them all of course, but many of them I did. Maybe Sabayon and Pardus are worth of try. Will see about that later. But what I didn't try yet is BSD. I mean for longer period of time, like few months or something.

-- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org

What, specifically, do you see as more stable about BSD over Linux?

Nothing really... Just NetBSD is infamous for being uber stable. Linux under severe load can behave, well strangely. I have seen BSD boxes with loads up to 12 (Single Core as well so that's 12x optimum load) and still behave sanely.

Not saying you're wrong, but just personally I really haven't run into much in the way of stability issues with Linux servers, and it always seemed to me that BSD would have been giving me more headaches - most notably in the area of hardware support.

I think it depends what your doing with the servers. Over the last lot of years Linux has got 100x better, but back in the good ol' days BSD was where it was at. Further to that, hardware was a bitch on both to support. It was a case of choose your weapon. I moved to Arch Linux because of its BSD like nature.... I guess I just like the way BSD does things.... And Arch rocks. BTW: I have started recently using Arch on Servers as my faith grows in the distribution.

Thanks,

DR

Your Welcome -- Dave ------------- root@crankyadmin.net cranky@archlinux.us

On 5 Oct 2009 at 10:32, Crouse wrote:

When using Arch as a server distro, you HAVE to be prepared to revert packages back that bork things, php/apache/mysq/ etc..... this isn't hard at all.

I ran into the same php issues, and have yet to complete the upgrade, I simply reverted the package back, and set it to ignore in the upgrade list. I LOVE arch for servers, you just have to use a bit of common sense when doing upgrades. Especially if the servers are like mine, remote servers.

However, I have run into much tougher issues when using other versions of Linux to do the same thing. In the end, the trade off of stability vs. bleeding edge, I much prefer the bleeding edge stuff. The most current patches for security are usually implemented, and while at times it breaks a few things you have to fix, many times your going to run into the same issue down the road with a stable system too, patches that break things, at least with the bleeding edge stuff, I have the newest security fixes in place..... so, I prefer to deal with one or two issues per year myself, and have the latest releases of the applications.

Just my opinion, ymmv.

Crouse

Yes that's true. With any other distro you will have some issues, sooner or later. I know that very well. But, from the other side, let's say if I have an issue with Arch I can't fix at all, what's the function using it at all? Just like for example, right now my PHP isn't working. And if I will not be able to fix it at all, shall I wait for next Syu to get it working or I'll spend all the time, in the meantime, until next Syu fixing this PHP to work again? :) I have some other things to do in my life than only reading, learning and fixing things with OS. Maybe David is right. Use Ubuntu :) I just don't like it. Maybe KUbuntu :P Jozsef Kurucity | Web & Graphic Designer -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org http://linux.sgms-centre.com/advocacy/no-ms-office.php

On Monday 05 October 2009 06:26:52 am Allan McRae wrote:

Did you read the news about php on the front page of the website?

Oh, you mean that one, the one you have to scroll way down (one or two mouse scrolls) to find... (ducking..... ;-) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com

On Wednesday 07 October 2009 02:39:19 am Jozsef wrote:

I read it while it was still on top, don't worry. But as I said things went wrong even after next Syu... Everything works fine now. So that's OK.

Glad to hear it. I got 5.3 when it first went into testing and about pulled my hair out tightening the php.ini configuration to play nice with 5.3. The changes really show where you had been loose in your config before 5.3 and gotten away with it. Now 5.3 requires a bit of clean up with your config, but then works just fine. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com

once you understand that the ones behind archlinux development are human beings and that as human beings they can make mistakes makes you be prepared for unexpected results after updates, thats the price you have to pay for having a bleeding edge distribution. as simple as this, with a bleeding edge distribution you have to deal with possible packaging errors but with "stable" distributions you have to deal with outdated software. what I do is: I dont update archlinux on my laptop unless I have some free time, and also I dont update my server unless I had updated my laptop and checked that everything is working fine. On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:54 AM, wrote:

On 7 Oct 2009 at 11:34, David C. Rankin wrote:

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On Wednesday 07 October 2009 02:39:19 am Jozsef wrote:

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I read it while it was still on top, don't worry. But as I said things went wrong even after next Syu... Everything works fine now. So that's OK.

Glad to hear it. I got 5.3 when it first went into testing and about pulled my hair out tightening the php.ini configuration to play nice with 5.3. The changes really show where you had been loose in your config before 5.3 and gotten away with it. Now 5.3 requires a bit of clean up with your config, but then works just fine.

Usually I don't have too much time for pulling my hear or for anything else that's why I like when things just works. Even if I need to fix things it's OK but sometimes I can't fix them just like that for few minutes. I read the news, I went to #archlinux, I sent a message here in the list but still nothing. Then I search the forum and tried different things until once it start working again. Few days I didn't touch anything at all. Really didn't have time. I still can't try any other OS here because I spent too much time setting this Arch up and configuring. It's my baby :)) It looks and works beautiful. Except after Syu; but not always. Most of the time things just work... Can't just say goodbye to Arch so easily. But if once it will happen that I really can't fix something, that will be the moment... I guess. Anyway, I'll try to buy another PC and install something else...

Jozsef Kurucity  |  Web & Graphic Designer -- O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org http://linux.sgms-centre.com/advocacy/no-ms-office.php

On Wednesday 07 October 2009 12:54:22 pm jozefk@gmx.com wrote:

Usually I don't have too much time for pulling my hear or for anything else that's why I like when things just works. Even if I need to fix things it's OK but sometimes I can't fix them just like that for few minutes. I read the news, I went to #archlinux, I sent a message here in the list but still nothing. Then I search the forum and tried different things until once it start working again. Few days I didn't touch anything at all. Really didn't have time. I still can't try any other OS here because I spent too much time setting this Arch up and configuring. It's my baby :)) It looks and works beautiful. Except after Syu; but not always. Most of the time things just work... Can't just say goodbye to Arch so easily. But if once it will happen that I really can't fix something, that will be the moment... I guess. Anyway, I'll try to buy another PC and install something else...

Remember it well. I was just like that with the first Mandrake server I set up for my office a decade ago. Then you learn that Linux is fairly indestructible and that no matter what config changes happen along the way, a bit of reading of the latest release notes and a bit of tweaking and anything can be brought back to life. As for looking at another OS, it's great to experiment, but I'd be willing to wager that you find your way back to Arch. By far the most current, responsive and cleanest I've found. (I've tried a lot) Updates are going to causes changes in configs, etc. occasionally, that's just progress. One thing that really helps if you are using your linux box in a critical role is to setup another 'testing' box to test updates on and confirm all is well before updating the box you rely on. That will virtually eliminate any downtime. With P4 3.0GHz boxes being excessed for as little as $60 it's cheap insurance. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com