[arch-general] The ultimate Home Theater / media center computer
Hi list
Somehow I got it into my head that I want a home theater PC. I'm growing tired of having to watch television and movies on my computer's 17" LCD screen. At the shop I used to work at, once in a while we'd build a media center computer, but the concept never really took off here (Belgium). There are many reasons for that, such as:
* Television is major suckage here (thanks to That Big Company and Government-Not-Governing). The entire country is split into very small regions where broadcast frequencies differ, there's no unified TV guide system, not all regions can receive all channels. Digital television is even worse: That Big Company forces you to buy one of their proprietary decoders. The only way to receive digital television without restrictions is DVB-T with a very limited number of channels (basically nothing). * At that time, the hardware sucked (noisy, too big, not stylish enough to put it along your other hi-fi components, not powerful enough, limited digital outputs, etc...). The software wasn't much better (too complicated, took a long time to start, etc...).
Anyway, my goal is to build the *ULTIMATE* HTPC. As such, strong demands must be met:
The hardware:
* It should be stylish, a timeless look which fits with your other hi-fi components. * It must be entirely silent. Zero moving components. No exceptions. * Unrestricted fully digital outputs. * Must be able to play at least 720p MKV's using x264 encoded video. * Easy remote control. No remote controls with more buttons than there are stars in the sky and certainly no "dual function" buttons (those functions in a different color which you need to flick a switch or are context dependent). * Able to receive DVB-C.
The software:
* There is no room for "Digital Rights Management" fascism. All content must play flawless and in the highest quality possible. In some cases this will mean circumventing protections. That'll probably make the device illegal in some countries, but I don't care. * Easy user interface (also see hardware remote control point). * Can connect to NAS or other storage devices such as USB sticks.
In total:
* Must be a complete replacement for your DVD player and other media devices. The goal here is keeping the number of remote controls down. Ideally you should only have two: one for controlling your HTPC and one for your hi-fi set. * It is geared towards modern television, that means stuff like HDTV and no legacy connector stuff (like composite).
With those goals set, I started looking for hardware. Here's what I've come up with:
* Case: Silverstone LC19 http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_spec.php?pno=lc19&area=usa
+ Fanless PSU. + Casefans can be removed + Comes with PCI-e and PCI risercards + Integrated cardreader and slimline optical slot + Available in black and silver + Accommodates standard ATX I/O shield + Room for a 3.5" storage device (SSD?) + Vents right above the CPU + Slim
- Fits only small motherboard sizes - Only 120 watt PSU - No infrared receiver, no remote control
* Motherboard: Asus P5N7A-VM http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=8YiUFvK51IergAqY&templete=2
+ Powerful on-board graphics (nVidia 9300) + Supports 16 GB of RAM + eSATA port + Optical audio output + HDMI, DVI and VGA video output + Gigabit ethernet + Solid caps
- nVidia on-board graphics (requiring proprietary driver) - On-board graphics use system memory - Crappy realtek audio codec
* DVB-C receiver: ?
I have zero experience with DVB-C receivers for computers. I've come across the "DVBWorldDTV Cable" (http://www.worlddvb.com/product/htm/pcic.htm) which seems to provide what I'm looking for. Anyone know how good this hardware actually is and how well it's supported by linux?
I have an old hauppauge PVR-350 card which works well, unfortunately hauppauge doesn't seem to have DVB-C products.
* Remote control: ?
I want to have something simple here. Maybe a small USB infrared receiver and a simple remote control with buttons up, down, left, right, enter? Anyone know if such hardware exists?
* Processor: Intel Celeron?
No idea how much processing power would be required for a decent HTPC. Preferably as low powered as possible, as the CPU will have to be passively cooled.
* Processor cooling: ?
I was thinking of a big block with small fins which you see a lot in 1U rackservers. Copper would be the logical choice but from what I've read, aluminum allows for better heat transfer to the environment. So a copper base with alu fins would be ideal.
* Storage: ?
For storing the operating system I was thinking of those IDE compact flash cards. Downside is that they are very slow. An SSD can be considered but I want to leave the option open to use the 3.5" bay for a hard drive for people that don't have the luxury of a NAS or don't want to leave a NAS running all times.
Moving along. The most annoying aspect: software. Obviously we want all our software to be open source. A shortlist of open source media center software:
* MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org/) * XBMC (http://xbmc.org/) * Elisa (http://elisa.fluendo.com/)
The point I really want to focus on is ease of use. Take this as a benchmark: you only have to explain your parents once how it works.
Any suggestions, comments, thoughts, etc... are appreciated.
Thanks,
Best regards,
Glenn
For the software, I strongly recommend LinuxMCE <linuxmce.com> Take a look at the video they have there, showing the software features, which takes impressively 20+ minutes! <wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Video>
With the rest, I unfortunately can't help you much, but good luck!
Best Regards, Thiago Varela
On Sun, 03 May 2009 21:33:14 +0200 RedShift redshift@pandora.be wrote:
Hi list
Somehow I got it into my head that I want a home theater PC. I'm growing tired of having to watch television and movies on my computer's 17" LCD screen. At the shop I used to work at, once in a while we'd build a media center computer, but the concept never really took off here (Belgium). There are many reasons for that, such as:
- Television is major suckage here (thanks to That Big Company and
Government-Not-Governing). The entire country is split into very small regions where broadcast frequencies differ, there's no unified TV guide system, not all regions can receive all channels. Digital television is even worse: That Big Company forces you to buy one of their proprietary decoders. The only way to receive digital television without restrictions is DVB-T with a very limited number of channels (basically nothing).
- At that time, the hardware sucked (noisy, too big, not stylish enough to
put it along your other hi-fi components, not powerful enough, limited digital outputs, etc...). The software wasn't much better (too complicated, took a long time to start, etc...).
Anyway, my goal is to build the *ULTIMATE* HTPC. As such, strong demands must be met:
The hardware:
- It should be stylish, a timeless look which fits with your other hi-fi
components.
- It must be entirely silent. Zero moving components. No exceptions.
- Unrestricted fully digital outputs.
- Must be able to play at least 720p MKV's using x264 encoded video.
- Easy remote control. No remote controls with more buttons than there are
stars in the sky and certainly no "dual function" buttons (those functions in a different color which you need to flick a switch or are context dependent).
- Able to receive DVB-C.
The software:
- There is no room for "Digital Rights Management" fascism. All content must
play flawless and in the highest quality possible. In some cases this will mean circumventing protections. That'll probably make the device illegal in some countries, but I don't care.
- Easy user interface (also see hardware remote control point).
- Can connect to NAS or other storage devices such as USB sticks.
In total:
- Must be a complete replacement for your DVD player and other media devices.
The goal here is keeping the number of remote controls down. Ideally you should only have two: one for controlling your HTPC and one for your hi-fi set.
- It is geared towards modern television, that means stuff like HDTV and no
legacy connector stuff (like composite).
With those goals set, I started looking for hardware. Here's what I've come up with:
- Case: Silverstone LC19
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_spec.php?pno=lc19&area=usa
- Fanless PSU.
- Casefans can be removed
- Comes with PCI-e and PCI risercards
- Integrated cardreader and slimline optical slot
- Available in black and silver
- Accommodates standard ATX I/O shield
- Room for a 3.5" storage device (SSD?)
- Vents right above the CPU
- Slim
- Fits only small motherboard sizes
- Only 120 watt PSU
- No infrared receiver, no remote control
- Motherboard: Asus P5N7A-VM
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=8YiUFvK51IergAqY&templete=2
- Powerful on-board graphics (nVidia 9300)
- Supports 16 GB of RAM
- eSATA port
- Optical audio output
- HDMI, DVI and VGA video output
- Gigabit ethernet
- Solid caps
- nVidia on-board graphics (requiring proprietary driver)
- On-board graphics use system memory
- Crappy realtek audio codec
- DVB-C receiver: ?
I have zero experience with DVB-C receivers for computers. I've come across the "DVBWorldDTV Cable" (http://www.worlddvb.com/product/htm/pcic.htm) which seems to provide what I'm looking for. Anyone know how good this hardware actually is and how well it's supported by linux?
I have an old hauppauge PVR-350 card which works well, unfortunately hauppauge doesn't seem to have DVB-C products.
- Remote control: ?
I want to have something simple here. Maybe a small USB infrared receiver and a simple remote control with buttons up, down, left, right, enter? Anyone know if such hardware exists?
- Processor: Intel Celeron?
No idea how much processing power would be required for a decent HTPC. Preferably as low powered as possible, as the CPU will have to be passively cooled.
- Processor cooling: ?
I was thinking of a big block with small fins which you see a lot in 1U rackservers. Copper would be the logical choice but from what I've read, aluminum allows for better heat transfer to the environment. So a copper base with alu fins would be ideal.
- Storage: ?
For storing the operating system I was thinking of those IDE compact flash cards. Downside is that they are very slow. An SSD can be considered but I want to leave the option open to use the 3.5" bay for a hard drive for people that don't have the luxury of a NAS or don't want to leave a NAS running all times.
Moving along. The most annoying aspect: software. Obviously we want all our software to be open source. A shortlist of open source media center software:
- MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org/)
- XBMC (http://xbmc.org/)
- Elisa (http://elisa.fluendo.com/)
The point I really want to focus on is ease of use. Take this as a benchmark: you only have to explain your parents once how it works.
Any suggestions, comments, thoughts, etc... are appreciated.
Thanks,
Best regards,
Glenn
2009/5/3 RedShift redshift@pandora.be:
Hi list
[...]
Anyway, my goal is to build the *ULTIMATE* HTPC.
[...]
- Processor: Intel Celeron?
No idea how much processing power would be required for a decent HTPC. Preferably as low powered as possible, as the CPU will have to be passively cooled.
How about a Via Epia CPU? These have two important advantages for a HTPC: - fanless (not all models) - MPEG-accelleration
I've built a HTPC myself as a toy-project, altough i use it mainly for watching DVDs. So far the Epia works great for me, it's not the strongest CPU around, but it's nice and quiet (fanless, HDD/DVD are the only moving parts).
mvg, Guus
On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 14:33, RedShift redshift@pandora.be wrote: <snip>
With those goals set, I started looking for hardware. Here's what I've come up with:
- Case: Silverstone LC19
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_spec.php?pno=lc19&area=usa
- Fanless PSU.
- Casefans can be removed
- Comes with PCI-e and PCI risercards
- Integrated cardreader and slimline optical slot
- Available in black and silver
- Accommodates standard ATX I/O shield
- Room for a 3.5" storage device (SSD?)
- Vents right above the CPU
- Slim
- Fits only small motherboard sizes
- Only 120 watt PSU
- No infrared receiver, no remote control
120W might be a little low. I have the P5N7A-VM motherboard listed below in my HTPC and it draws ~80W (as computed from the measured current through an ammeter from the wall socket). I have a Core2Duo, 2 case fans, HDD, and a PCI TV tuner card in mine though.
- Motherboard: Asus P5N7A-VM
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=8YiUFvK51IergAqY&templete=2
- Powerful on-board graphics (nVidia 9300)
- Supports 16 GB of RAM
- eSATA port
- Optical audio output
- HDMI, DVI and VGA video output
- Gigabit ethernet
- Solid caps
- nVidia on-board graphics (requiring proprietary driver)
- On-board graphics use system memory
- Crappy realtek audio codec
As i mentioned, i use this motherboard in my HTPC. Works nice, but i'm afraid the heat dissipation from the nvidia chipset is a bit much for a fanless solution. If you are still considering this motherboard and want some numbers, i can turn off the fans and measure the case temperature to give you a ballpark figure.
Other problems i've had with this motherboard: - HDMI doesn't seem to work if the TV is not powered on when the computer is booted. I haven't had time to debug this, so i'm just using a DVI-HDMI cable which doesn't have this problem. - I could never figure out how to get audio working through the HDMI cable. It worked fine in Windows, but under Linux the digital audio only worked through the optical output, regardless of BIOS settings. - The audio is victim of the latest changes in the 2.6.29 kernel (see FS #14246 [0])
- DVB-C receiver: ?
I have zero experience with DVB-C receivers for computers. I've come across the "DVBWorldDTV Cable" (http://www.worlddvb.com/product/htm/pcic.htm) which seems to provide what I'm looking for. Anyone know how good this hardware actually is and how well it's supported by linux?
I have an old hauppauge PVR-350 card which works well, unfortunately hauppauge doesn't seem to have DVB-C products.
I don't have much experience with European DVB receivers, but one word of warning: make sure the card you decide on fits in your case of choice. For example, some cases only accept half-height cards.
- Processor: Intel Celeron?
No idea how much processing power would be required for a decent HTPC. Preferably as low powered as possible, as the CPU will have to be passively cooled.
This depends what you want it to be capable of doing. If you just want TV viewing, recording, and playback, a low-power celeron is all you need. I'm pretty sure an Intel Atom is all you need, assuming the graphics chipset is adequate. If you want to re-encode the media (e.g. in the H.264 format), that takes a little more power. As a point of reference, I used to run an HD media PC on an Athlon 1100.
- Storage: ?
For storing the operating system I was thinking of those IDE compact flash cards. Downside is that they are very slow. An SSD can be considered but I want to leave the option open to use the 3.5" bay for a hard drive for people that don't have the luxury of a NAS or don't want to leave a NAS running all times.
Arch boots fine from a CF card through an IDE-CF adapter, but as you mentioned, they are slow.
Moving along. The most annoying aspect: software. Obviously we want all our software to be open source. A shortlist of open source media center software:
- MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org/)
- XBMC (http://xbmc.org/)
- Elisa (http://elisa.fluendo.com/)
I have used MythTV and XBMC for a little while now. I hadn't heard of Elisa until i read your email. Here is my take on the three: MythTV - highly configurable. Probably more options than you could ever want. Need to use plugins for video playback (non-recorded) and music. XBMC - My opinion is that it is easier to use than MythTV, however, it does not have TV tuner/PVR support, and i've had some playback issues with the built-in codecs it uses on files that mplayer/MythTV didn't. Elisa - since i have only tried this for a little while, my concerns here might not be valid. Out-of-box, the user interface seemed to be the best of the three. However, the controls were awkward (compared to MythTV), but they might be customizable. Also, i had trouble adding media directories because my media is under /mnt/media but it would only allow access to my home directory. It also could not play Quicktime media out of box.
[0] http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/14246
-Marq
Marq Schneider wrote:
- Motherboard: Asus P5N7A-VM
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=8YiUFvK51IergAqY&templete=2
- Powerful on-board graphics (nVidia 9300)
- Supports 16 GB of RAM
- eSATA port
- Optical audio output
- HDMI, DVI and VGA video output
- Gigabit ethernet
- Solid caps
- nVidia on-board graphics (requiring proprietary driver)
- On-board graphics use system memory
- Crappy realtek audio codec
As i mentioned, i use this motherboard in my HTPC. Works nice, but i'm afraid the heat dissipation from the nvidia chipset is a bit much for a fanless solution. If you are still considering this motherboard and want some numbers, i can turn off the fans and measure the case temperature to give you a ballpark figure.
Could you provide us those figures? If the nVidia chipset gets too hot, I'd try the intel board (the DG45FC discussed earlier). If it still gets too hot, we'll probably have to start looking at VIA solutions. But I'm affraid those will be underpowered and I have bad experiences with VIA grahpics chipsets and linux.
Thanks,
Glenn
So I finally got around to spending some time again on this project. I ordered the Silverstone LC-19 case discussed below but for the motherboard, I went with a Zotac IONITX-D-E [1].
Though I'm still having some small issues and the system is not complete (it doesn't meet all the requirements yet I set below), I can already tell it's an awesome hardware combination.
As the mediacenter software, I chose XBMC (because I think it works the best and has built-in support for VDPAU).
I'm writing a full review and intend on writing a wiki page to achieve the perfect setup in combination with ArchLinux.
[1] http://pden.zotac.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypag...
Best regards,
Glenn
RedShift wrote:
Hi list
Somehow I got it into my head that I want a home theater PC. I'm growing tired of having to watch television and movies on my computer's 17" LCD screen. At the shop I used to work at, once in a while we'd build a media center computer, but the concept never really took off here (Belgium). There are many reasons for that, such as:
- Television is major suckage here (thanks to That Big Company and
Government-Not-Governing). The entire country is split into very small regions where broadcast frequencies differ, there's no unified TV guide system, not all regions can receive all channels. Digital television is even worse: That Big Company forces you to buy one of their proprietary decoders. The only way to receive digital television without restrictions is DVB-T with a very limited number of channels (basically nothing).
- At that time, the hardware sucked (noisy, too big, not stylish enough
to put it along your other hi-fi components, not powerful enough, limited digital outputs, etc...). The software wasn't much better (too complicated, took a long time to start, etc...).
Anyway, my goal is to build the *ULTIMATE* HTPC. As such, strong demands must be met:
The hardware:
- It should be stylish, a timeless look which fits with your other hi-fi
components.
- It must be entirely silent. Zero moving components. No exceptions.
- Unrestricted fully digital outputs.
- Must be able to play at least 720p MKV's using x264 encoded video.
- Easy remote control. No remote controls with more buttons than there
are stars in the sky and certainly no "dual function" buttons (those functions in a different color which you need to flick a switch or are context dependent).
- Able to receive DVB-C.
The software:
- There is no room for "Digital Rights Management" fascism. All content
must play flawless and in the highest quality possible. In some cases this will mean circumventing protections. That'll probably make the device illegal in some countries, but I don't care.
- Easy user interface (also see hardware remote control point).
- Can connect to NAS or other storage devices such as USB sticks.
In total:
- Must be a complete replacement for your DVD player and other media
devices. The goal here is keeping the number of remote controls down. Ideally you should only have two: one for controlling your HTPC and one for your hi-fi set.
- It is geared towards modern television, that means stuff like HDTV and
no legacy connector stuff (like composite).
With those goals set, I started looking for hardware. Here's what I've come up with:
- Case: Silverstone LC19
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_spec.php?pno=lc19&area=usa
- Fanless PSU.
- Casefans can be removed
- Comes with PCI-e and PCI risercards
- Integrated cardreader and slimline optical slot
- Available in black and silver
- Accommodates standard ATX I/O shield
- Room for a 3.5" storage device (SSD?)
- Vents right above the CPU
- Slim
- Fits only small motherboard sizes
- Only 120 watt PSU
- No infrared receiver, no remote control
- Motherboard: Asus P5N7A-VM
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=8YiUFvK51IergAqY&templete=2
- Powerful on-board graphics (nVidia 9300)
- Supports 16 GB of RAM
- eSATA port
- Optical audio output
- HDMI, DVI and VGA video output
- Gigabit ethernet
- Solid caps
- nVidia on-board graphics (requiring proprietary driver)
- On-board graphics use system memory
- Crappy realtek audio codec
- DVB-C receiver: ?
I have zero experience with DVB-C receivers for computers. I've come across the "DVBWorldDTV Cable" (http://www.worlddvb.com/product/htm/pcic.htm) which seems to provide what I'm looking for. Anyone know how good this hardware actually is and how well it's supported by linux?
I have an old hauppauge PVR-350 card which works well, unfortunately hauppauge doesn't seem to have DVB-C products.
- Remote control: ?
I want to have something simple here. Maybe a small USB infrared receiver and a simple remote control with buttons up, down, left, right, enter? Anyone know if such hardware exists?
- Processor: Intel Celeron?
No idea how much processing power would be required for a decent HTPC. Preferably as low powered as possible, as the CPU will have to be passively cooled.
- Processor cooling: ?
I was thinking of a big block with small fins which you see a lot in 1U rackservers. Copper would be the logical choice but from what I've read, aluminum allows for better heat transfer to the environment. So a copper base with alu fins would be ideal.
- Storage: ?
For storing the operating system I was thinking of those IDE compact flash cards. Downside is that they are very slow. An SSD can be considered but I want to leave the option open to use the 3.5" bay for a hard drive for people that don't have the luxury of a NAS or don't want to leave a NAS running all times.
Moving along. The most annoying aspect: software. Obviously we want all our software to be open source. A shortlist of open source media center software:
- MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org/)
- XBMC (http://xbmc.org/)
- Elisa (http://elisa.fluendo.com/)
The point I really want to focus on is ease of use. Take this as a benchmark: you only have to explain your parents once how it works.
Any suggestions, comments, thoughts, etc... are appreciated.
Thanks,
Best regards,
Glenn
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 6:12 AM, RedShift redshift@pandora.be wrote:
I'm writing a full review and intend on writing a wiki page to achieve the perfect setup in combination with ArchLinux.
Nice! While I don't have money to get one right now, I definitely find the idea great =] Thanks for sharing.
-- Guilherme M. Nogueira "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke
participants (5)
-
Guilherme M. Nogueira
-
Guus Snijders
-
Marq Schneider
-
RedShift
-
Thiago Varela