[arch-general] GHC 7.4.1 or HP 2011.4.0.0??
It's been out for a day now... this would be a good time to decide whether ArchLinux should be bold and move to a haskell-platform-free state, or trudge on with HP and the ache it causes.
If we're moving to 7.4.1 there's a lot of work with getting ArchHaskell in shape for it, so the longer notice the better :)
If we're to trudge on with HP then we really ought to move to 2011.4.0.0, which also means a new version of GHC and a lot of work on ArchHaskell, so the longer notice the better :)
Please, please, please, can we move on this soon?
I'm available to help out with [extra]&[community] packages if need be, updating PKGBUILDs, building, verifying other's changes, etc.
/M
My personal opinion as a user is that it would be nice to abandon the Haskell Platform in favor of keeping more Haskell packages up-to-date with the upstream. That seems more in line with the general Arch philosophy of staying as current as possible. Also, GHC 7.4 has some cool features that I would love to be able to use...
My understanding of the implications of this kind of decision is fairly limited, though, so I take my own opinion with a rather large grain of salt. :)
Also, if there's anything a normal user can do to contribute to the upgrade effort, I'd be glad to offer my help.
This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and especially Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as found in [extra].
We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP in Arch. *I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead was, but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. I don't like the current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision would be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.
/M
On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 04:28:28PM +0100, Magnus Therning wrote:
It's been out for a day now... this would be a good time to decide whether ArchLinux should be bold and move to a haskell-platform-free state, or trudge on with HP and the ache it causes.
If we're moving to 7.4.1 there's a lot of work with getting ArchHaskell in shape for it, so the longer notice the better :)
If we're to trudge on with HP then we really ought to move to 2011.4.0.0, which also means a new version of GHC and a lot of work on ArchHaskell, so the longer notice the better :)
Please, please, please, can we move on this soon?
I'm available to help out with [extra]&[community] packages if need be, updating PKGBUILDs, building, verifying other's changes, etc.
/M
-- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and especially Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as found in [extra].
You might want to contact Vesa directly. He might not be following this ML.
We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP in Arch. *I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead was, but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. I don't like the current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision would be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.
/M
On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 04:28:28PM +0100, Magnus Therning wrote:
It's been out for a day now... this would be a good time to decide whether ArchLinux should be bold and move to a haskell-platform-free state, or trudge on with HP and the ache it causes.
If we're moving to 7.4.1 there's a lot of work with getting ArchHaskell in shape for it, so the longer notice the better :)
If we're to trudge on with HP then we really ought to move to 2011.4.0.0, which also means a new version of GHC and a lot of work on ArchHaskell, so the longer notice the better :)
Please, please, please, can we move on this soon?
I'm available to help out with [extra]&[community] packages if need be, updating PKGBUILDs, building, verifying other's changes, etc.
/M
-- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus
-- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus
Most software today is very much like an Egyptian pyramid with millions of bricks piled on top of each other, with no structural integrity, but just done by brute force and thousands of slaves. -- Alan Kay
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and especially Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as found in [extra].
We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP in Arch. *I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead was, but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. I don't like the current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision would be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.
Yeah, I noticed 7.4.1's release just now.
The question of HP and Arch was left in a limbo the last time, I feel. The reason I started pondering about dropping HP earlier was that there seemed to be no progress on it with regards to 7.2. Then it was pointed out that 7.2 was sort of an unstable upstream release, so that was the reason for HP not going with it.
So now I'm not so certain anymore about dropping it. We could again wait for a while until HP catches up (it should be relatively fast this time, since 7.4 is supposedly a real stable release) or just drop it and go to 7.4.1 asap (and probably face some breakage). What do you people think?
--vk
On 06/02/12 06:18, Vesa Kaihlavirta wrote:
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and especially Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as found in [extra].
We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP in Arch. *I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead was, but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. I don't like the current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision would be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.
Yeah, I noticed 7.4.1's release just now.
The question of HP and Arch was left in a limbo the last time, I feel. The reason I started pondering about dropping HP earlier was that there seemed to be no progress on it with regards to 7.2. Then it was pointed out that 7.2 was sort of an unstable upstream release, so that was the reason for HP not going with it.
So now I'm not so certain anymore about dropping it. We could again wait for a while until HP catches up (it should be relatively fast this time, since 7.4 is supposedly a real stable release) or just drop it and go to 7.4.1 asap (and probably face some breakage). What do you people think?
Drop HP.
On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 21:18, Vesa Kaihlavirta vpkaihla@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and especially Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as found in [extra].
We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP in Arch. *I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead was, but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. I don't like the current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision would be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.
Yeah, I noticed 7.4.1's release just now.
The question of HP and Arch was left in a limbo the last time, I feel. The reason I started pondering about dropping HP earlier was that there seemed to be no progress on it with regards to 7.2. Then it was pointed out that 7.2 was sort of an unstable upstream release, so that was the reason for HP not going with it.
So now I'm not so certain anymore about dropping it. We could again wait for a while until HP catches up (it should be relatively fast this time, since 7.4 is supposedly a real stable release) or just drop it and go to 7.4.1 asap (and probably face some breakage). What do you people think?
Drop HP. The main reason is that the goals of HP are opposite the goals of ArchLinux.
/M
On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 10:18:32PM +0200, Vesa Kaihlavirta wrote:
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
This was mainly directed to the Arch Devs on the list, and especially Vesa since he's putting in most of the work on GHC as found in [extra].
We've already discussed the question of whether we should keep HP in Arch. *I* think there was clear what the favoured route ahead was, but in the end it's the Arch Devs who decide. I don't like the current situation (outdated GHC and outdated HP), so a decision would be much welcome then the work on catching up can begin.
Yeah, I noticed 7.4.1's release just now.
The question of HP and Arch was left in a limbo the last time, I feel. The reason I started pondering about dropping HP earlier was that there seemed to be no progress on it with regards to 7.2. Then it was pointed out that 7.2 was sort of an unstable upstream release, so that was the reason for HP not going with it.
Here's how I think:
1. The decision to not go with 7.2 was not bad. I think upstream caused a bit of confusion by giving a stable-release-number to a tech preview. 2. I think the correct path forward is to drop HP. HP is a set of libraries, and it blesses certain versions of those libraries. Each of those libraries is however released independently as well so sticking with HP feels counter to how the Arch Way is practised[1]. 3. My impression was that there was a majority of people on the ArchHaskell mailing list in favour of dropping HP.
So now I'm not so certain anymore about dropping it. We could again wait for a while until HP catches up (it should be relatively fast this time, since 7.4 is supposedly a real stable release) or just drop it and go to 7.4.1 asap (and probably face some breakage). What do you people think?
There's still a bit of work needed to keep up with HP since there's been a new release with GHC 7.0.4.
/M
[1]: I write it this way since I can't find anything in the Arch Way saying that it's a goal to always stay with the latest release of packages.
/M
I vote for 7.4.1. Things are moving beyond 7.0.4. HP is a nice idea, but I've never really used it on Arch - I just install the Haskell packages I need and their dependencies are automatically installed. Here, I view it more of a "blessed baseline" for the larger goal of supporting as many useful Haskell packages together as possible.
-Leif
On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 7:28 AM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
It's been out for a day now... this would be a good time to decide whether ArchLinux should be bold and move to a haskell-platform-free state, or trudge on with HP and the ache it causes.
If we're moving to 7.4.1 there's a lot of work with getting ArchHaskell in shape for it, so the longer notice the better :)
If we're to trudge on with HP then we really ought to move to 2011.4.0.0, which also means a new version of GHC and a lot of work on ArchHaskell, so the longer notice the better :)
Please, please, please, can we move on this soon?
I'm available to help out with [extra]&[community] packages if need be, updating PKGBUILDs, building, verifying other's changes, etc.
/M
-- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus
arch-haskell mailing list arch-haskell@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/arch-haskell
We ought to be ashamed, Debian unstable now has GHC 7.4.1! ;) http://packages.debian.org/sid/ghc
In the meantime I've put together a repo with GHC 7.4.1 (x86_64 only) and a few packages: http://is.gd/L7ZBQC
/M
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:59 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
We ought to be ashamed, Debian unstable now has GHC 7.4.1! ;) http://packages.debian.org/sid/ghc
In the meantime I've put together a repo with GHC 7.4.1 (x86_64 only) and a few packages: http://is.gd/L7ZBQC
/M
-- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus
Perl is another example of filling a tiny, short-term need, and then being a real problem in the longer term. -- Alan Kay
Hi,
I will be working with vega in around 2 weeks to update ghc and cleaning up the haskell pkgs. I'm not working on it right now because I'm currently focusing on cleaning up our ruby package and guidelines. Vega is working on a tool to help us with the update.
If you really need ghc 7.4.1, I have a preliminary package for ghc at http://pkgbuild.com/~td123/ghc.tar Binaries are available under http://pkgbuild.com/~td123/ Note this is completely unsupported and should be only used if you know what you're doing. Not specifically saying this to you, but other people that come across reading this :)
-Thomas Dziedzic
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 12:07:13PM -0600, Thomas Dziedzic wrote:
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:59 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
We ought to be ashamed, Debian unstable now has GHC 7.4.1! ;) http://packages.debian.org/sid/ghc
In the meantime I've put together a repo with GHC 7.4.1 (x86_64 only) and a few packages: http://is.gd/L7ZBQC
Hi,
I will be working with vega in around 2 weeks to update ghc and cleaning up the haskell pkgs. I'm not working on it right now because I'm currently focusing on cleaning up our ruby package and guidelines. Vega is working on a tool to help us with the update.
All right, so it's coming that's good :-)
Am I to understand that this means HP will go?
In the meantime I'll try to build as many of the packages in [extra]/[community] as possible. That ought to be useful to you later on, particularly if any patches are necessary.
/M
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 12:07:13PM -0600, Thomas Dziedzic wrote:
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:59 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
We ought to be ashamed, Debian unstable now has GHC 7.4.1! ;) http://packages.debian.org/sid/ghc
In the meantime I've put together a repo with GHC 7.4.1 (x86_64 only) and a few packages: http://is.gd/L7ZBQC
Hi,
I will be working with vega in around 2 weeks to update ghc and cleaning up the haskell pkgs. I'm not working on it right now because I'm currently focusing on cleaning up our ruby package and guidelines. Vega is working on a tool to help us with the update.
All right, so it's coming that's good :-)
Am I to understand that this means HP will go?
That's the plan so far.
In the meantime I'll try to build as many of the packages in [extra]/[community] as possible. That ought to be useful to you later on, particularly if any patches are necessary.
This would be really awesome if you found the time to do this especially if you found any breakages and patches that fixed those.
/M
-- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus
Perl is another example of filling a tiny, short-term need, and then being a real problem in the longer term. -- Alan Kay
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 09:03:02PM -0600, Thomas Dziedzic wrote:
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
[...]
Am I to understand that this means HP will go?
That's the plan so far.
:-)
In the meantime I'll try to build as many of the packages in [extra]/[community] as possible. That ought to be useful to you later on, particularly if any patches are necessary.
This would be really awesome if you found the time to do this especially if you found any breakages and patches that fixed those.
Of course. I'll collect it all in the git repo I pointed to earlier.
By now I've gotten almost all packages from [extra] compiled. So far I've skipped OpenGL/GLUT since these packages have been drastically re-arranged in the recent releases. I'm wondering whether it's worth including them at all if HP is dropped. (Are there usage statistics to consult somewhere?)
/M
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 07:13:22PM +0100, Magnus Therning wrote: [...]
By now I've gotten almost all packages from [extra] compiled. So far I've skipped OpenGL/GLUT since these packages have been drastically re-arranged in the recent releases. I'm wondering whether it's worth including them at all if HP is dropped. (Are there usage statistics to consult somewhere?)
And now I've added the packages from [community]. The total list is now:
ghc74 alex 3.0.1-1 ghc74 ghc 7.4.1-2 [installed] ghc74 gtk2hs-buildtools 0.12.1-1 ghc74 happy 1.18.9-1 ghc74 haskell-ansi-terminal 0.5.5-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-ansi-wl-pprint 0.6.4-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-bytestring-show 0.3.5.1-1 ghc74 haskell-cairo 0.12.2-1 ghc74 haskell-cereal 0.3.5.1-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-cgi 3001.1.8.2-1 ghc74 haskell-cmdargs 0.9.2-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-crypto-api 0.9-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-darcs-beta 2.7.98.3-2 ghc74 haskell-data-default 0.2.0.1-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-dataenc 0.14.0.3-2 ghc74 haskell-dbus 0.4-1 ghc74 haskell-entropy 0.2.1-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-fgl 5.4.2.4-1 ghc74 haskell-ghc-paths 0.1.0.8-1 ghc74 haskell-glib 0.12.2-1 ghc74 haskell-gtk 0.12.2-1 ghc74 haskell-hashed-storage 0.5.9-2 ghc74 haskell-haskeline 0.6.4.6-2 ghc74 haskell-haskell-src 1.0.1.5-1 ghc74 haskell-hslogger 1.1.5-1 ghc74 haskell-html 1.0.1.2-2 ghc74 haskell-http 4000.2.2-1 ghc74 haskell-hunit 1.2.4.2-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-json 0.5-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-largeword 1.0.1-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-mmap 0.5.7-2 ghc74 haskell-monadcatchio-mtl 0.3.0.4-1 ghc74 haskell-mtl 2.0.1.0-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-network 2.3.0.11-1 ghc74 haskell-pango 0.12.2-1 ghc74 haskell-parallel 3.2.0.2-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-parsec 3.1.2-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-primitive 0.4.1-2 ghc74 haskell-puremd5 2.1.0.3-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-quickcheck 2.4.2-1 ghc74 haskell-random 1.0.1.1-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-regex-base 0.93.2-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-regex-compat 0.95.1-2 ghc74 haskell-regex-posix 0.95.1-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-regex-tdfa 1.1.8-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-semigroups 0.8-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-split 0.1.4.2-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-stm 2.2.0.1-1 ghc74 haskell-syb 0.3.6-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-tagged 0.2.3.1-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-tar 0.3.2.0-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-text 0.11.1.13-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-transformers 0.2.2.0-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-unixutils 1.47-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-utf8-string 0.3.7-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-vector 0.9.1-2 ghc74 haskell-x11 1.5.0.1-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-x11-xft 0.3.1-1 ghc74 haskell-xhtml 3000.2.0.5-1 ghc74 haskell-xmonad 0.10-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-xmonad-contrib 0.10-2 [installed] ghc74 haskell-xmonad-extras 0.10.1-5 [installed] ghc74 haskell-zlib 0.5.3.2-2 [installed]
/M
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 7:13 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.orgwrote:
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 09:03:02PM -0600, Thomas Dziedzic wrote:
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org
wrote: [...]
Am I to understand that this means HP will go?
That's the plan so far.
:-)
In the meantime I'll try to build as many of the packages in [extra]/[community] as possible. That ought to be useful to you later on, particularly if any patches are necessary.
This would be really awesome if you found the time to do this especially if you found any breakages and patches that fixed those.
Of course. I'll collect it all in the git repo I pointed to earlier.
By now I've gotten almost all packages from [extra] compiled. So far I've skipped OpenGL/GLUT since these packages have been drastically re-arranged in the recent releases. I'm wondering whether it's worth including them at all if HP is dropped. (Are there usage statistics to consult somewhere?)
This website shows all archlinux's package stats (only for the people how have pkgstats) https://www.archlinux.de/?page=Statistics
/M
-- Magnus Therning OpenPGP: 0xAB4DFBA4 email: magnus@therning.org jabber: magnus@therning.org twitter: magthe http://therning.org/magnus
I invented the term Object-Oriented, and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind. -- Alan Kay
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 19:07, Thomas Dziedzic gostrc@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:59 PM, Magnus Therning magnus@therning.org wrote:
We ought to be ashamed, Debian unstable now has GHC 7.4.1! ;) http://packages.debian.org/sid/ghc
In the meantime I've put together a repo with GHC 7.4.1 (x86_64 only) and a few packages: http://is.gd/L7ZBQC
I will be working with vega in around 2 weeks to update ghc and cleaning up the haskell pkgs. I'm not working on it right now because I'm currently focusing on cleaning up our ruby package and guidelines. Vega is working on a tool to help us with the update.
If you really need ghc 7.4.1, I have a preliminary package for ghc at http://pkgbuild.com/~td123/ghc.tar Binaries are available under http://pkgbuild.com/~td123/ Note this is completely unsupported and should be only used if you know what you're doing. Not specifically saying this to you, but other people that come across reading this :)
I've made some changes to that package (in particular adding a patch that makes installation of packages *a lot* less verbose). Please consider grabbing it out of my git repo.
/M
participants (8)
-
Allan McRae
-
Eric Bélanger
-
Jelle van der Waa
-
Leif Warner
-
Magnus Therning
-
Taylor Hedberg
-
Thomas Dziedzic
-
Vesa Kaihlavirta