Hello, If any of you, still misses the gnome 2.32 with ffmpeg, mplayer, mencoder, dvdstyler, and all the stuff that comes with, I have setted up an archlinux server at: archlinux.k1.com.br ======================================== howto: 1) edit /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist to have only one line Server = http://archlinux.k1.com.br:81/$repo/os/x86_64 2) edit the /etc/pacman.conf and uncomment the code to fetch from community, multilib, lzt lzt is the "private" packages brought from FreeBSD 8.2 3) do the command pacman -Syu the system will bring the codes from the k1 archlinux repository 4) pacman -S abs will rebuild the /etc/abs.conf to point to the K1 abs 5) command: abs will fetch (via rsync) the abs and put it in the /var/abs ======================================= for now, there is a complete gnome 2.32 working with gdm 2.18 (the old one) that have gdmsetup. libreoffice is version 3.3.3 and the pt-br package is libreoffice-pt-BR I have tested on several old notebooks and seems OK Just in case some of you need the old gnome. Sergio
On 5 July 2011 01:53, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi <lenzi.sergio@gmail.com> wrote:
Just in case some of you need the old gnome.
That's not how we roll, and people should be discouraged from using frozen repositories. The only way this could work would be to have an actively maintained repository complementing the official ones. I imagine this is not an easy task at all, considering upstream's discontinuation of the Gnome 2 line. So, people who are still using Gnome 2 are encouraged to upgrade to Gnome 3 and see if they like it. After a week or so, they can choose to either keep it – if they're happy – or switch to another desktop environment (maybe even try a window manager instead).
Em Ter, 2011-07-05 às 02:58 +0300, Evangelos Foutras escreveu:
On 5 July 2011 01:53, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi <lenzi.sergio@gmail.com> wrote:
Just in case some of you need the old gnome.
That's not how we roll, and people should be discouraged from using frozen repositories.
I know, I do not like the idea too. I build the repository only because I have several (30+) notebooks, used by end users that are unable to use gnome3. Gnome3 is too advanced for them, or the notebooks do not have graphical hardware for gnome3 (3D). They barely can operate gnome2 (they came from windows XP)... The keyboard commands in gnome3 is not an option for them. The option was to come back to windows XP. but they would loose the libreoffice, the evolution, epiphany, gthumb. They are: musicist, nurses, house wifes, old peole (60+ yo)... and so on... I tried the Xfce, but it does not have integration gnome have (automount, gphoto, gthumb, eog, evince... Kde is too complicated for them. some have used Kde 3.2...
The only way this could work would be to have an actively maintained repository complementing the official ones. I imagine this is not an easy task at all, considering upstream's discontinuation of the Gnome 2 line.
So, people who are still using Gnome 2 are encouraged to upgrade to Gnome 3 and see if they like it. After a week or so, they can choose to either keep it – if they're happy – or switch to another desktop environment (maybe even try a window manager instead).
or come back to windows XP and forget about the Linux adventure... Here K1 (my company) builds servers running FreeBSD, and we already support about 1200 ports (applications) that runs on servers. We decided for Archlinux because of the notebooks (freebsd does not do well on notebooks still) . Indeed, we have to port serveral applications to Archlinux for example: id3ren, gdm 2.18, libreoffice 3.3.4, mencoder, new versions of ffmpeg, mplayer, dvdstyler, anjuta, sis671 Xserver, vnc (not tightvnc), Xvnc... basically what we use in FreeBSD and do not have in archlinux... Sergio
On Tue, Jul 05, 2011 at 01:17:49AM -0300, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:
Em Ter, 2011-07-05 às 02:58 +0300, Evangelos Foutras escreveu:
On 5 July 2011 01:53, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi <lenzi.sergio@gmail.com> wrote:
Just in case some of you need the old gnome.
That's not how we roll, and people should be discouraged from using frozen repositories.
I know, I do not like the idea too. I build the repository only because I have several (30+) notebooks, used by end users that are unable to use gnome3. Gnome3 is too advanced for them, or the notebooks do not have graphical hardware for gnome3 (3D). They barely can operate gnome2 (they came from windows XP)... The keyboard commands in gnome3 is not an option for them. The option was to come back to windows XP. but they would loose the libreoffice, the evolution, epiphany, gthumb. They are: musicist, nurses, house wifes, old peole (60+ yo)... and so on... I tried the Xfce, but it does not have integration gnome have (automount, gphoto, gthumb, eog, evince... Kde is too complicated for them. some have used Kde 3.2...
You might want to give mint xfce, or mint lxde a try. They have nice set of tools and will work nice on older hardware.
Em Ter, 2011-07-05 às 10:41 +0530, gt escreveu:
You might want to give mint xfce, or mint lxde a try. They have nice set of tools and will work nice on older hardware.
Wow... finally I have a valid point... Very thanks... I will try it ASAP and whoe the users what they think about.... Sergio
În data de Ma, 05-07-2011 la 02:41 -0300, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi a scris:
Wow... finally I have a valid point... Very thanks... I will try it ASAP and whoe the users what they think about....
I just can't understand why everyone forgets there is still a way to use metacity and gnome-panel and even if they were to be deprecated upstream, which isn't the case yet, they could be simply replaced by anything else. The real problem with gnome3 is just this: the window manager and the panel. Get over it and work around the upstream decision in a smart way. Using a different window manager is the best thing to do for those of us that can't or won't use gnome-shell and is not that hard. It can be done either in normal or fallback mode, keeping metacity and gnome-panel or not, even if that was intended as a "solution" for those systems that don't have 3D acceleration. It won't work *exactly* as gnome2, so what? You can get the sources and make it work as you want. Your users don't know how to do it? Fine, do it yourself for them, or hire someone to do it. Things will change anyway. We all understand that the things around us and the things we use everyday change, and we are proud of being able to adapt, wheter in real life or our fictitious lifes, and yet everyone fails at the easiest thing in software world: editing a few config files. I might even consider writing a how to, especially if someone would apreciate my work, but untill then I will just say that with a few edited config files and the proper packages installed anyone can get a gnome2 like behaviour in gnome3. I now am using Compiz with Emerald and AWN, but I've also tried, as in configured untill everything was just like in gnome2, Sawfish and Openbox with fbpanel. With other window managers it might not be that easy to mimic the behaviour, but it's still doable. Note that on my system I don't have ane of these: gnome-applets, gnome-panel, gnome-shell, metacity nor mutter. As a strong argument for how nice and easy it can be done, have a look at this picture http://ompldr.org/vOWQxOA and here's one with the good old gnome2 that inspired me http://ompldr.org/vOWQxYQ (too bad it was made on Debian just a few days before I decided to switch to Parabola). Don't get fooled by the looks, it's just a Mist like theme, and is not yet finished. The way it works is more important. The fact that I have 3D support, is just a bonus. Things can be done to work the same even without it. -- <>< Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
Sergio! Maybe try xfce or lxde with then? It will be clever because gnome2 will not give you updates anymore, and will be harder and harder to keep things working in the long run. (Unless someone forked gnome2 and is working on that right now) Specially xfce is very closed to gnome2, and maybe now it will be even more similar.
2011/7/5 Bernardo Barros <bernardobarros2@gmail.com>
Sergio!
Maybe try xfce or lxde with then?
It will be clever because gnome2 will not give you updates anymore, and will be harder and harder to keep things working in the long run.
(Unless someone forked gnome2 and is working on that right now)
Specially xfce is very closed to gnome2, and maybe now it will be even more similar.
There is a gnome2 fork and its alredy in aur. Don't remember the name, bu it is there. -- (\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile (0.o ) to help him achieve world domination. (> <) come join the dark side. /_|_\ (we have cookies.)
2011/7/5 jesse jaara <jesse.jaara@gmail.com>
2011/7/5 Bernardo Barros <bernardobarros2@gmail.com>
Sergio!
Maybe try xfce or lxde with then?
It will be clever because gnome2 will not give you updates anymore, and will be harder and harder to keep things working in the long run.
(Unless someone forked gnome2 and is working on that right now)
Specially xfce is very closed to gnome2, and maybe now it will be even more similar.
There is a gnome2 fork and its alredy in aur. Don't remember the name, bu it is there.
-- (\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile (0.o ) to help him achieve world domination. (> <) come join the dark side. /_|_\ (we have cookies.)
I found it :D https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=121162 http://matsusoft.com.ar/redmine/projects/mate -- (\_ /) copy the bunny to your profile (0.o ) to help him achieve world domination. (> <) come join the dark side. /_|_\ (we have cookies.)
Gnome2 fork???? I love open source... Thanks... I am now testing the Parabola....
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:53 AM, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi <lenzi.sergio@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
If any of you, still misses the gnome 2.32 with ffmpeg, mplayer, mencoder, dvdstyler, and all the stuff that comes with,
Excuse my little impudence here, but I have ffmpeg, mplayer and mencoder on my system from [extra], as they are the current stable versions and don't even depend on gtk. I find it confusing if you're advertising your gnome2 repo with that. Myself, I run a spartanic wm config on a cpu that could easily handle more, but *box, pekwm or a real tiling wm would probably be too geeky for the linux-excursioning weekend scout club of windows users. However, someone might come and like your idea! :-) cheers! mar77i
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 07/05/2011 12:53 AM, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:
for now, there is a complete gnome 2.32 working with gdm 2.18 (the old one) that have gdmsetup. libreoffice is version 3.3.3 and the pt-br package is libreoffice-pt-BR I have tested on several old notebooks and seems OK
What's wrong with Gnome 3 in fallback mode? Have I missed something? - -- vic.demuzere.be :: vic@demuzere.be :: PGP: 0x5F3A08A1 My software never contains bugs, it just develops random features. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJOFcbJAAoJEG+257lfOgih3rAIAIZpjdaZ37AzRz7qudCF7wGq zjEsEDZGwRmOmSZe0PD6BkQaL//1tKlJVuzfaCFjABngMyeats5HfZMjhLnoXeok 6Vj+18BXLhP4i9IEq/7YQiq8oW7knOIq7Qj9+ugxcai4mWHeLk0U+LMNGUCNnygA rqm7xDEzj9yT7sAuCEd5ajFElWYBEGM2lp0M2YgR6pqV+gXXOV3/gvl96bbqulyc HCel/erhPAKzANE07c5Os7mFO7Dx10m5/LGk+Cabc3KI6txzYEKlOZThqmTSR9Jn 020QkjuRnUWrR5szW3AuvtI09UYiu5MUfN4fsYcJnIRpVPZIR/GvT8/udIwiXnE= =7Oke -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
What's wrong with Gnome 3 in fallback mode? Have I missed something?
in fallback mode: does not have icons in the desktop, the panel is not the same, the mouse right click does not work there are no applets. Nautilus is a stand alone program and not use the desktop any more There are several keyboard commands that end users are not able to use as they are trained to use only the mouse. For a skilled computer wizard, gnome3 is good, fast... but is is useless for an end user. That is the reasons I setup an old gnome (2.32) repository, and in the future will move users to xfce4. Gnome will loose a lot of users, and will be restrict to "wizards computer gurus" (about 1% of the users...) How many end users that uses LInux, are using Kde4?? here in my country the few notebooks sold with Linux are using Kde3, and or gnome 2.32... Please note that "end users" are: second grade studends of: psicology, medicine, sociology,... (not a technitian) Nurses, Moms (your mom).. music people.., actors.... Normal people (90%) of the population around you... that does not wants to know how computer works, just wants to use the computer, without learning anything, gnome 2 does exactly what is suposed to do, make the computer work. Only in the company I work for (more than 180 users), still uses gnome2.32, but as I said, I am working in a Xfce4 desktop for them. Xfce does not have all the gnome features, but it is better than windows XP. Sergio
On 07/07/2011 11:17 PM, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:
What's wrong with Gnome 3 in fallback mode? Have I missed something?
in fallback mode: does not have icons in the desktop, the panel is not the same, the mouse right click does not work there are no applets. Nautilus is a stand alone program and not use the desktop any more There are several keyboard commands that end users are not able to use as they are trained to use only the mouse.
For a skilled computer wizard, gnome3 is good, fast... but is is useless for an end user.
everything you said above is plain wrong. EVERYTHING go read the wiki or use gnome manuals 1) you can set up nautilus to manage your desktop (use gnome-tweak-tool if you are not skilled enough) 2) alt+right click doh, is specified all over the internet at this point, not only in the manual 3) see 1 and system settings->keyboard->shortcuts Can you please spare us and start discovering? Is not that hard to open a manual or search on google -- Ionuț
On Jul 7, 2011 10:26 PM, "Ionut Biru" <ibiru@archlinux.org> wrote:
everything you said above is plain wrong. EVERYTHING go read the wiki or use gnome manuals
1) you can set up nautilus to manage your desktop (use gnome-tweak-tool if you are not skilled enough) 2) alt+right click doh, is specified all over the internet at this point, not only in the manual 3) see 1 and system settings->keyboard->shortcuts
Can you please spare us and start discovering? Is not that hard to open a manual or search on google
That's what I thought, but I have never used fallback mode so I don't know how usable it is. I do know some non-geek end users who actually like gnome 3 shell, though. I think it's a better idea to spend your time on improving fallback mode in gnome 3, than spending it on maintaining outdated software. -- Vic
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Vic Demuzere <vic@demuzere.be> wrote:
On Jul 7, 2011 10:26 PM, "Ionut Biru" <ibiru@archlinux.org> wrote:
everything you said above is plain wrong. EVERYTHING go read the wiki or use gnome manuals
1) you can set up nautilus to manage your desktop (use gnome-tweak-tool if you are not skilled enough) 2) alt+right click doh, is specified all over the internet at this point, not only in the manual 3) see 1 and system settings->keyboard->shortcuts
Can you please spare us and start discovering? Is not that hard to open a manual or search on google
That's what I thought, but I have never used fallback mode so I don't know how usable it is. I do know some non-geek end users who actually like gnome 3 shell, though.
I think it's a better idea to spend your time on improving fallback mode in gnome 3, than spending it on maintaining outdated software.
indeed. i personally find gnome3 to be incredibly intuitive to use, and minus the first week or so tweaking to my needs i am rather productive at this point -- though i'm def in power/super/awesome/better-than-you/geek-to-the-max user group, and spend most time in a term/vim/tmux/browser anyways ... ... but on that note, my partner/fiancé definitely does not. she is the embodiment of an "anti-user" ... an aspiring art-therapist that *hates* computers and will use paper/non-digital for everything unless external forces imposes otherwise (how we work at all together is a great mystery :-). she didn't even own a computer until college @ ~20yrs old, and prior to that had very little exposure via the minimum required at school. frankly, even the most basic UX assumptions potentially confuse her; while very intelligent, some people just don't have the "expected exposure" required in today's environment. ... anyways, the moral of the story is she loves gnome3 and finds it totally make sense; she had no trouble finding her way around the activities UI layout, and she does not use key-bindings at all (just click "Activities" or move mouse to top-left). she even says she *likes* it, which is the only time i've ever heard her speak of a computer like that in years :-) ... i think the only thing i did was reinstate the icons on her desktop, even though it can have some odd consequences. over the years i've tried compiz/gnome2/kde/xfce/.../... ie. slews of DE's and WM's, tweaked to the max, and nothing has even come close to gnome3 success with her. sooooo, while gnome3 does have plenty to improve on, and 3.2 might be a better transition target, IMO it's done very well, and your clients deserve a chance to demonstrate just how competent they can be (even if they seem totally n00b, and believe me, i know what that is ;-) C Anthony
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:11 PM, C Anthony Risinger <anthony@xtfx.me> wrote:
On Jul 7, 2011 10:26 PM, "Ionut Biru" <ibiru@archlinux.org> wrote:
everything you said above is plain wrong. EVERYTHING go read the wiki or use gnome manuals
1) you can set up nautilus to manage your desktop (use gnome-tweak-tool if you are not skilled enough) 2) alt+right click doh, is specified all over the internet at this
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Vic Demuzere <vic@demuzere.be> wrote: point,
not only in the manual
3) see 1 and system settings->keyboard->shortcuts
Can you please spare us and start discovering? Is not that hard to open a manual or search on google
That's what I thought, but I have never used fallback mode so I don't know how usable it is. I do know some non-geek end users who actually like gnome 3 shell, though.
I think it's a better idea to spend your time on improving fallback mode in gnome 3, than spending it on maintaining outdated software.
I know you are right... I must have to find a way to present a "transition" if ever, between gnome2 and gnome 3. My users needs an update perhaps once a year..
Meanwhile I will install again gnome3 in the test computer nvidia chipset, amd 2 cores. So I expect theat by JUN 2012, gonome3 have become more stable, and then I will start to send new notebooks with gnome3 interface...
C Anthony
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 8:40 PM, sergio lenzi <lenzi.sergio@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:11 PM, C Anthony Risinger <anthony@xtfx.me> wrote:
On Jul 7, 2011 10:26 PM, "Ionut Biru" <ibiru@archlinux.org> wrote:
everything you said above is plain wrong. EVERYTHING go read the wiki or use gnome manuals
1) you can set up nautilus to manage your desktop (use gnome-tweak-tool if you are not skilled enough) 2) alt+right click doh, is specified all over the internet at this
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Vic Demuzere <vic@demuzere.be> wrote: point,
not only in the manual
3) see 1 and system settings->keyboard->shortcuts
Can you please spare us and start discovering? Is not that hard to open a manual or search on google
That's what I thought, but I have never used fallback mode so I don't know how usable it is. I do know some non-geek end users who actually like gnome 3 shell, though.
I think it's a better idea to spend your time on improving fallback mode in gnome 3, than spending it on maintaining outdated software.
I know you are right... I must have to find a way to present a "transition" if ever, between gnome2 and gnome 3. My users needs an update perhaps once a year..
Meanwhile I will install again gnome3 in the test computer nvidia chipset, amd 2 cores.
So I expect theat by JUN 2012, gonome3 have become more stable, and then I will start to send new notebooks with gnome3 interface...
C Anthony
8-| did I just read that you're shipping snapshots of archlinux to users and plan on updating them next year??? archlinux may not be the distro for you...
8-| did I just read that you're shipping snapshots of archlinux to users and plan on updating them next year???
archlinux may not be the distro for you...
The "users" just want to use the computer (like an apple user, they just "use" it) here a macbook is extremely expensive for them (about 4 times) the price of a notebook with celeron or atom. An atom/celeron/pentium based notebook here you can buy for US$550 and you pay it about US$50/month so almost every person can buy one. (320Gb disk, 1Gb memory, LED display 13 inches, bluetooth, wifi, camera). comes with W7 starter kit, or Linux Kde3 based. example===> http://tinyurl.com/3lbhq3x In windows it is very slow, with linux(that comes installed) is very outdated. Software: If I install ubuntu, it loads and works out of the box, but it is too closed. (I use FreeBSD and archlinux is the closest one) Archlinux have the makepkg that is wonderful, fast, reliable, small, easy to mantain the repo, the AUR is a good source of solution, and finally, the people on the Archlinux list is very skilled, and know what they are doing/saying... (Thank you all...). People here uses the computer (95%) for email, messenger, enter facebook, office package, movie/mp3 downloads. They want a computer that does not brake when a pen drive is inserted, they want to use wifi on the class, they love to start an "ad-hoc" network using wicd and exchange files between them, chat on the messenger, store/download movies and pictures from their cell phone... they love the way linux hibernates.. and wakes up days after.. They love to change users (system-> logout-> change user) For them, US$50 (the month payment) is a lot of money... usually 10% of the family income, with windows they have to "upgrade" (home start edition is useless), install "anti-virus".. (more money....) . and eventually have to pay (US$20) for a "cleanup", or install a very outdated XP (another US$50) Online gaming and "stunned" graphics games is a distant dream.. Some of them are using Archlinux for 2 years now without updating... (a notebook you cannot upgrade the hardware...) sometimes they mail me for a specific program (music editor...) or out of space message... make a new user (useradd...) sometimes they forget how to take a picture of the desktop, or resize a picture and send via email (using evolution).. or even create a new evolution account... they than go to a LAN-HOUSE, or "CYBER" and fire "pacman -Sy" , "pacman -S xxxx" for this they have to pay about US$10... they live far away and the only way of support is email, or chat... Another thing: they are very proud of using LINUX... they "feel" they are using a "better" solution... and not feel like "another brick on the wall" Archlinux is good also or that old "EEEPC" that have only a flash disk of 4Gb.... Thank you for Listening (your patience) and attention. Sergio
On 07/09/2011 02:41 PM, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:
8-| did I just read that you're shipping snapshots of archlinux to users and plan on updating them next year???
archlinux may not be the distro for you...
The "users" just want to use the computer (like an apple user, they just "use" it) here a macbook is extremely expensive for them (about 4 times) the price of a notebook with celeron or atom.
An atom/celeron/pentium based notebook here you can buy for US$550 and you pay it about US$50/month so almost every person can buy one. (320Gb disk, 1Gb memory, LED display 13 inches, bluetooth, wifi, camera). comes with W7 starter kit, or Linux Kde3 based. example===> http://tinyurl.com/3lbhq3x In windows it is very slow, with linux(that comes installed) is very outdated.
Software:
If I install ubuntu, it loads and works out of the box, but it is too closed. (I use FreeBSD and archlinux is the closest one)
Archlinux have the makepkg that is wonderful, fast, reliable, small, easy to mantain the repo, the AUR is a good source of solution, and finally, the people on the Archlinux list is very skilled, and know what they are doing/saying... (Thank you all...).
People here uses the computer (95%) for email, messenger, enter facebook, office package, movie/mp3 downloads.
They want a computer that does not brake when a pen drive is inserted, they want to use wifi on the class, they love to start an "ad-hoc" network using wicd and exchange files between them, chat on the messenger, store/download movies and pictures from their cell phone... they love the way linux hibernates.. and wakes up days after.. They love to change users (system-> logout-> change user)
For them, US$50 (the month payment) is a lot of money... usually 10% of the family income, with windows they have to "upgrade" (home start edition is useless), install "anti-virus".. (more money....) . and eventually have to pay (US$20) for a "cleanup", or install a very outdated XP (another US$50) Online gaming and "stunned" graphics games is a distant dream..
Some of them are using Archlinux for 2 years now without updating... (a notebook you cannot upgrade the hardware...) sometimes they mail me for a specific program (music editor...) or out of space message... make a new user (useradd...) sometimes they forget how to take a picture of the desktop, or resize a picture and send via email (using evolution).. or even create a new evolution account... they than go to a LAN-HOUSE, or "CYBER" and fire "pacman -Sy" , "pacman -S xxxx" for this they have to pay about US$10... they live far away and the only way of support is email, or chat...
Another thing: they are very proud of using LINUX... they "feel" they are using a "better" solution... and not feel like "another brick on the wall"
Archlinux is good also or that old "EEEPC" that have only a flash disk of 4Gb....
Thank you for Listening (your patience) and attention.
Sergio
nice to hear that arch do things in the way you like. That's the beauty of using opensource software in general, that you can tweak it to meet your needs. -- Ionuț
2011/7/9 Ionut Biru <ibiru@archlinux.org>:
On 07/09/2011 02:41 PM, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:
8-| did I just read that you're shipping snapshots of archlinux to users and plan on updating them next year???
archlinux may not be the distro for you...
The "users" just want to use the computer (like an apple user, they just "use" it) here a macbook is extremely expensive for them (about 4 times) the price of a notebook with celeron or atom.
An atom/celeron/pentium based notebook here you can buy for US$550 and you pay it about US$50/month so almost every person can buy one. (320Gb disk, 1Gb memory, LED display 13 inches, bluetooth, wifi, camera). comes with W7 starter kit, or Linux Kde3 based. example===> http://tinyurl.com/3lbhq3x In windows it is very slow, with linux(that comes installed) is very outdated.
Software:
If I install ubuntu, it loads and works out of the box, but it is too closed. (I use FreeBSD and archlinux is the closest one)
Archlinux have the makepkg that is wonderful, fast, reliable, small, easy to mantain the repo, the AUR is a good source of solution, and finally, the people on the Archlinux list is very skilled, and know what they are doing/saying... (Thank you all...).
People here uses the computer (95%) for email, messenger, enter facebook, office package, movie/mp3 downloads.
They want a computer that does not brake when a pen drive is inserted, they want to use wifi on the class, they love to start an "ad-hoc" network using wicd and exchange files between them, chat on the messenger, store/download movies and pictures from their cell phone... they love the way linux hibernates.. and wakes up days after.. They love to change users (system-> logout-> change user)
For them, US$50 (the month payment) is a lot of money... usually 10% of the family income, with windows they have to "upgrade" (home start edition is useless), install "anti-virus".. (more money....) . and eventually have to pay (US$20) for a "cleanup", or install a very outdated XP (another US$50) Online gaming and "stunned" graphics games is a distant dream..
Some of them are using Archlinux for 2 years now without updating... (a notebook you cannot upgrade the hardware...) sometimes they mail me for a specific program (music editor...) or out of space message... make a new user (useradd...) sometimes they forget how to take a picture of the desktop, or resize a picture and send via email (using evolution).. or even create a new evolution account... they than go to a LAN-HOUSE, or "CYBER" and fire "pacman -Sy" , "pacman -S xxxx" for this they have to pay about US$10... they live far away and the only way of support is email, or chat...
Another thing: they are very proud of using LINUX... they "feel" they are using a "better" solution... and not feel like "another brick on the wall"
Archlinux is good also or that old "EEEPC" that have only a flash disk of 4Gb....
Thank you for Listening (your patience) and attention.
Sergio
nice to hear that arch do things in the way you like. That's the beauty of using opensource software in general, that you can tweak it to meet your needs.
-- Ionuț
+1 to Sergio comments. Sometimes I talk to people about linux and first find it come to their mind is "oh, you use that... uhn.. Ubuntu?", like if it was the only linux distro available - normal thought for Windows-users. Then I show them Archlinux, this easy and highly customizable linux dristribution, and some times I convince them to change for it. I've got some success already. It's /\archlinux ruling in Brazil! :) Cheers, Rafael
On Saturday, July 09, 2011 09:55:43 AM rafael ff1 wrote:
2011/7/9 Ionut Biru <ibiru@archlinux.org>:
On 07/09/2011 02:41 PM, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:
8-| did I just read that you're shipping snapshots of archlinux to users and plan on updating them next year???
archlinux may not be the distro for you...
The "users" just want to use the computer (like an apple user, they just "use" it) here a macbook is extremely expensive for them (about 4 times) the price of a notebook with celeron or atom.
An atom/celeron/pentium based notebook here you can buy for US$550 and you pay it about US$50/month so almost every person can buy one. (320Gb disk, 1Gb memory, LED display 13 inches, bluetooth, wifi, camera). comes with W7 starter kit, or Linux Kde3 based. example===> http://tinyurl.com/3lbhq3x In windows it is very slow, with linux(that comes installed) is very outdated.
Software:
If I install ubuntu, it loads and works out of the box, but it is too closed. (I use FreeBSD and archlinux is the closest one)
Archlinux have the makepkg that is wonderful, fast, reliable, small, easy to mantain the repo, the AUR is a good source of solution, and finally, the people on the Archlinux list is very skilled, and know what they are doing/saying... (Thank you all...).
People here uses the computer (95%) for email, messenger, enter facebook, office package, movie/mp3 downloads.
They want a computer that does not brake when a pen drive is inserted, they want to use wifi on the class, they love to start an "ad-hoc" network using wicd and exchange files between them, chat on the messenger, store/download movies and pictures from their cell phone... they love the way linux hibernates.. and wakes up days after.. They love to change users (system-> logout-> change user)
For them, US$50 (the month payment) is a lot of money... usually 10% of the family income, with windows they have to "upgrade" (home start edition is useless), install "anti-virus".. (more money....) . and eventually have to pay (US$20) for a "cleanup", or install a very outdated XP (another US$50) Online gaming and "stunned" graphics games is a distant dream..
Some of them are using Archlinux for 2 years now without updating... (a notebook you cannot upgrade the hardware...) sometimes they mail me for a specific program (music editor...) or out of space message... make a new user (useradd...) sometimes they forget how to take a picture of the desktop, or resize a picture and send via email (using evolution).. or even create a new evolution account... they than go to a LAN-HOUSE, or "CYBER" and fire "pacman -Sy" , "pacman -S xxxx" for this they have to pay about US$10... they live far away and the only way of support is email, or chat...
Another thing: they are very proud of using LINUX... they "feel" they are using a "better" solution... and not feel like "another brick on the wall"
Archlinux is good also or that old "EEEPC" that have only a flash disk of 4Gb....
Thank you for Listening (your patience) and attention.
Sergio
nice to hear that arch do things in the way you like. That's the beauty of using opensource software in general, that you can tweak it to meet your needs.
-- Ionuț
+1 to Sergio comments.
Sometimes I talk to people about linux and first find it come to their mind is "oh, you use that... uhn.. Ubuntu?", like if it was the only linux distro available - normal thought for Windows-users. Then I show them Archlinux, this easy and highly customizable linux dristribution, and some times I convince them to change for it. I've got some success already. It's /\archlinux ruling in Brazil! :)
Cheers,
Rafael
Sadly, a lot of Ubuntu users assume all Linux is Ubuntu as well.
On Sat, Jul 09, 2011 at 08:41:32AM -0300, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:
8-| did I just read that you're shipping snapshots of archlinux to users and plan on updating them next year???
archlinux may not be the distro for you...
The "users" just want to use the computer (like an apple user, they just "use" it) here a macbook is extremely expensive for them (about 4 times) the price of a notebook with celeron or atom.
An atom/celeron/pentium based notebook here you can buy for US$550 and you pay it about US$50/month so almost every person can buy one. (320Gb disk, 1Gb memory, LED display 13 inches, bluetooth, wifi, camera). comes with W7 starter kit, or Linux Kde3 based. example===> http://tinyurl.com/3lbhq3x In windows it is very slow, with linux(that comes installed) is very outdated.
Software:
If I install ubuntu, it loads and works out of the box, but it is too closed. (I use FreeBSD and archlinux is the closest one)
Archlinux have the makepkg that is wonderful, fast, reliable, small, easy to mantain the repo, the AUR is a good source of solution, and finally, the people on the Archlinux list is very skilled, and know what they are doing/saying... (Thank you all...).
People here uses the computer (95%) for email, messenger, enter facebook, office package, movie/mp3 downloads.
They want a computer that does not brake when a pen drive is inserted, they want to use wifi on the class, they love to start an "ad-hoc" network using wicd and exchange files between them, chat on the messenger, store/download movies and pictures from their cell phone... they love the way linux hibernates.. and wakes up days after.. They love to change users (system-> logout-> change user)
For them, US$50 (the month payment) is a lot of money... usually 10% of the family income, with windows they have to "upgrade" (home start edition is useless), install "anti-virus".. (more money....) . and eventually have to pay (US$20) for a "cleanup", or install a very outdated XP (another US$50) Online gaming and "stunned" graphics games is a distant dream..
Some of them are using Archlinux for 2 years now without updating... (a notebook you cannot upgrade the hardware...) sometimes they mail me for a specific program (music editor...) or out of space message... make a new user (useradd...) sometimes they forget how to take a picture of the desktop, or resize a picture and send via email (using evolution).. or even create a new evolution account... they than go to a LAN-HOUSE, or "CYBER" and fire "pacman -Sy" , "pacman -S xxxx" for this they have to pay about US$10... they live far away and the only way of support is email, or chat...
Another thing: they are very proud of using LINUX... they "feel" they are using a "better" solution... and not feel like "another brick on the wall"
Archlinux is good also or that old "EEEPC" that have only a flash disk of 4Gb....
Thank you for Listening (your patience) and attention.
Sergio
I am very happy that people in developing countries like brazil, and even India to an extent are using linux more than other countries. Here people have limited incomes, and should realize that instead of using a pirated version of windows (most people in developing countries don't buy licenses), using linux is a better option.
Apple is just about to open a big (computer/ipad/i-xxx) factory in Brazil. It is growing and invading various niches here, which is equally threatening to freedom... But now we have ArchAudio that will prove an strong alternative in the fields of Music and ProAudio too! =)
Em Sáb, 2011-07-09 às 11:49 -0300, Bernardo Barros escreveu:
Apple is just about to open a big (computer/ipad/i-xxx) factory in Brazil. It is growing and invading various niches here, which is equally threatening to freedom...
But now we have ArchAudio that will prove an strong alternative in the fields of Music and ProAudio too! =)
Hello again, Ipad (i have a one, my son, too and so my gand-son) it is a great peace of machine+software, but here it is expensive (2 times the price of the notebook), and so is out of the possibilities of a 80% of the population. In my master (administration) they show me that while everyone is trying to sell everything to the 10% top of the social pyramid, they forget that the other 90% have needs, and one of the TOP needs is education (learning) and so they need computers and internet. Here (Brazil) the price of the desktop is the same of a notebook, so people prefer the notebook, small ones, (1Gb memory, 160Gb hd, celerom/atom)... Here I bought several notebooks HD (sansung 160GB or sansung 320GB) install archlinux (cloning the filesystem), so I always have about 5 units ready when I receive a notebook, I open it, change the HD, boot it, fix the Xserver config, and it is ready, usually a 10-15 minutes work time... Sometimes I had to install gnome-ppp to support 3G/gprs network. People use Linux because it is easy, and cheaper, (even if windows is for free: pirate one), they charge for installing it over and over again.. so Linux is cheaper. better.. Sergio
Apple devices stopped looking appealing to me when people around me started getting them and I found out how much control Apple has over what people do with their devices, especially i-devices, iPod, iPad, iPhone, etc. And now that they have brought their twisted concept of an app store to MacOS, they will start controlling desktops and notebooks in the same way most likely. Heck, even Microsoft doesn't try to take so much control of a computer as Apple does. I choose Arch Linux for all compatible machines. The installation process is a bit daunting for some people, but that is because of its flexibility and numerous customization options. However, once it's up and running, there's nothing better. I have total freedom to put anything on my computer that I want and leave off anything I don't want. If there's something I can't find in the official repositories or the AUR, it is extremely easy to add something to the AUR, and I could eventually find that same package in the official repositories if enough people like and use it. The packaging system is actually easier to manage than Ubuntu/Debian/derivatives, not to mention the fact that it's much easier to create a package build file even than it is to create an RPM spec file. All that, plus most packages work out of the box with minimal configuration, and where they do need some user interactions for configuration, the installation script prints a message that indicates what needs to be done. So Arch Linux may not be for everyone who wishes to have a quick diy install, but I wouldn't hesitate to install it for anyone, even those who are new to Linux in general. ~Kyle
On Saturday, July 09, 2011 01:11:22 PM Kyle wrote:
Apple devices stopped looking appealing to me when people around me started getting them and I found out how much control Apple has over what people do with their devices, especially i-devices, iPod, iPad, iPhone, etc. And now that they have brought their twisted concept of an app store to MacOS, they will start controlling desktops and notebooks in the same way most likely. Heck, even Microsoft doesn't try to take so much control of a computer as Apple does.
(snip) For me it was that, and the fact Apple has a ridiculous markup on products that bring less features and capability. I never bought into the iPhone hype, finding I could do more with my ancient Treo and now, my Droid. The macs are a disgrace. Why should mid-range PCs be priced like top-of-the- line gaming rigs?
~Kyle
On 07/09/2011 12:15 PM, Yaro Kasear wrote:
On Saturday, July 09, 2011 01:11:22 PM Kyle wrote:
Apple devices stopped looking appealing to me when people around me started getting them and I found out how much control Apple has over what people do with their devices, especially i-devices, iPod, iPad, iPhone, etc. And now that they have brought their twisted concept of an app store to MacOS, they will start controlling desktops and notebooks in the same way most likely. Heck, even Microsoft doesn't try to take so much control of a computer as Apple does.
(snip)
For me it was that, and the fact Apple has a ridiculous markup on products that bring less features and capability. I never bought into the iPhone hype, finding I could do more with my ancient Treo and now, my Droid.
The macs are a disgrace. Why should mid-range PCs be priced like top-of-the- line gaming rigs?
because ooh, shiny!
~Kyle
On 9 July 2011 19:15, Yaro Kasear <yaro@marupa.net> wrote:
The macs are a disgrace. Why should mid-range PCs be priced like top-of-the- line gaming rigs?
As long as people are prepared to pay for it, why not? I'd never pay that much for a mid-range PC, but some people do. As long as we have the choice not to buy Apple PC's, I couldn't care less. I do have a problem with other manufacturers selling more and more speaker sets and navigation systems with ONLY an iPhone connector, and no support for the numerous other phones out there. -- Vic Demuzere
On 09-07-2011 18:15, Yaro Kasear wrote:
The macs are a disgrace. Why should mid-range PCs be priced like top-of-the- line gaming rigs?
Because they are imagical, they have the wifis and the bigger GBs and dont forget the apps. Just don't hold it iwrong :p -- Mauro Santos
Same case here in India. We buy, suppose a lenovo laptop(standard config - core i3, 15" LCD, 2GB RAM, 160 GB HDD), for 35,000 INR. However the price of the lowest apple laptop is about 65,000 INR (with student discounts). So the number of Apple laptops used is very low. Also I have never touched an android,ios or blackbery device till date. Its because they are so costly that none of my close relatives and friends can afford these(forget about me. I am very poor. :P). Most OEMS now provide genuine windows 7 with their machines, which I believe is a pretty good OS. So the number of pirated windows users who bought a new laptop since about november last year are very low. But almost all of my friends have Linux Mint installed. And I am trying hard to get it installed on as many computers as possible. Some of my friends have even started using ArchLinux. Thanks.
Well said Madhurya Kakati, While ipads, iphones, sony vaio, Hp... lenovo... have they share in the market of people who buy it because have money to do so, there are 10X more people that can only buy a celeron 3300 notebook for US$50 dolars/month. Some months ago, the woman who cleans my home (Maria), have bought a notebook and I install archlinux for her for free, she said she went to work in another home (not mine) and the owner have a "super" notebook. They compared the graphics, sound, wifi , image, speed, easy of use, of the US$50 with the US$3000 one indeed Maria's have the same speed, never breaks, have better wifi (wicd), and 3G access was faster. For the curiosity, 3G access in Linux is much faster (about 6Mbits)... just because it does not use the "driver" that comes with the modem. So I guess that the speed limit is in the "driver"... Maria said she, her husband, son, doughter, all use the Notebook, it never loose anything, and is rock stable.. She is proud of using Linux... Sergio
Out of curiosity where are you based? 2011/7/10 Sergio de Almeida Lenzi <lenzi.sergio@gmail.com>
Well said Madhurya Kakati, While ipads, iphones, sony vaio, Hp... lenovo... have they share in the market of people who buy it because have money to do so, there are 10X more people that can only buy a celeron 3300 notebook for US$50 dolars/month.
Some months ago, the woman who cleans my home (Maria), have bought a notebook and I install archlinux for her for free, she said she went to work in another home (not mine) and the owner have a "super" notebook. They compared the graphics, sound, wifi , image, speed, easy of use, of the US$50 with the US$3000 one indeed Maria's have the same speed, never breaks, have better wifi (wicd), and 3G access was faster.
For the curiosity, 3G access in Linux is much faster (about 6Mbits)... just because it does not use the "driver" that comes with the modem. So I guess that the speed limit is in the "driver"...
Maria said she, her husband, son, doughter, all use the Notebook, it never loose anything, and is rock stable.. She is proud of using Linux...
Sergio
Em Dom, 2011-07-10 às 02:13 -0300, Victor Silva escreveu:
Out of curiosity where are you based?
Brasil South, Curitiba
Just asked cause here in Brazil I do consider uncommon to maids to be able to afford a laptop still it has becamew much more cheaper in the last years. Btw im in THE SOUTH, Porto Alegre. Em 10 de julho de 2011 02:15, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi < lenzi.sergio@gmail.com> escreveu:
Em Dom, 2011-07-10 às 02:13 -0300, Victor Silva escreveu:
Out of curiosity where are you based?
Brasil South, Curitiba
participants (19)
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Bernardo Barros
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C Anthony Risinger
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dmbuce＠gmail.com
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Evangelos Foutras
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gt
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Ionut Biru
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jesse jaara
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Kyle
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Madhurya Kakati
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Martti Kühne
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Mauro Santos
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rafael ff1
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Sergio de Almeida Lenzi
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sergio lenzi
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Sorin-Mihai Vârgolici
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Thomas Dziedzic
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Vic Demuzere
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Victor Silva
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Yaro Kasear