Re: [arch-general] [arch-dev-public] Cleaning up the base group
On Fri 2008-08-29 23:42, Pierre Schmitz wrote:
Am Freitag 29 August 2008 12:27:50 schrieb Thomas Bächler:
- nano Do we really need another editor in base? Let's leave it in core, remove it from base.
This might end up in a flamwar, but if we have to remove one editor I would vote vor vim and keep nano. [... more nonsense ]
||||||||| vvvvvvvvv ************* ======================> * THIS * <================================ ======================> * IS * <================================ ======================> * MADNESS! * <================================ ************* ^^^^^^^^^ ||||||||| :%s/Pierre Schmitz/Wuss Infidel/g :wq! -- Alessio (molok) Bolognino
lördagen den 30 augusti 2008 skrev Alessio Bolognino:
This might end up in a flamwar, but if we have to remove one editor I would vote vor vim and keep nano. [... more nonsense ]
vvvvvvvvv ************* ======================> * THIS * <================================ ======================> * IS * <================================ ======================> * MADNESS! * <================================ ************* ^^^^^^^^^
:%s/Pierre Schmitz/Wuss Infidel/g :wq!
Please not vim, since if you don't know vim, you very fast get stuck. I just installed and tried vim, and first it beeped on any key pressed. Then somehow it stopped, and I could not exit instead. I tried CTRL-C CTRL-C...., and it said ":quit to exit", but it did not work either. So "killall vim" was the way to exit. Yes, madness is the right word. nano is more logical. Everything you type inserts, and i has a menu at the bottom always. So you can figure out he first time. vim is a speciality editor, since you need to know it to use it. emacs is similar there. Both require you to learn it to do even simple things. And when installing a system, you need something so that you can edit the files to get started. For a novice there should be an editor that is self-explanatory, and it appears that nano can work there. But then I don't care since I anyway do: pacman -Rs vim nano
On Saturday 30 August 2008 17:52:15 Karolina Lindqvist wrote:
Please not vim, since if you don't know vim, you very fast get stuck. I just installed and tried vim, and first it beeped on any key pressed. Then somehow it stopped, and I could not exit instead. I tried CTRL-C CTRL-C...., and it said ":quit to exit", but it did not work either. So "killall vim" was the way to exit. Yes, madness is the right word.
nano is more logical. Everything you type inserts, and i has a menu at the bottom always. So you can figure out he first time.
vim is a speciality editor, since you need to know it to use it. emacs is similar there. Both require you to learn it to do even simple things. And when installing a system, you need something so that you can edit the files to get started. For a novice there should be an editor that is self-explanatory, and it appears that nano can work there.
+1 i'm an emacs fan, but still i agree nano makes alot more sense for a base system. Especially becouse it behaves logical. (e.g. ctrl+c) which neither emcas nor vim do properly.
But then I don't care since I anyway do: pacman -Rs vim nano
which in some cases requires you to correct config files before. -- best regards Arvid Ephraim Picciani
On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 06:13:52PM +0200, Arvid Ephraim Picciani wrote:
On Saturday 30 August 2008 17:52:15 Karolina Lindqvist wrote:
Please not vim, since if you don't know vim, you very fast get stuck. I just installed and tried vim, and first it beeped on any key pressed. Then somehow it stopped, and I could not exit instead. I tried CTRL-C CTRL-C...., and it said ":quit to exit", but it did not work either. So "killall vim" was the way to exit. Yes, madness is the right word.
nano is more logical. Everything you type inserts, and i has a menu at the bottom always. So you can figure out he first time.
vim is a speciality editor, since you need to know it to use it. emacs is similar there. Both require you to learn it to do even simple things. And when installing a system, you need something so that you can edit the files to get started. For a novice there should be an editor that is self-explanatory, and it appears that nano can work there.
+1 i'm an emacs fan, but still i agree nano makes alot more sense for a base system. Especially becouse it behaves logical. (e.g. ctrl+c) which neither emcas nor vim do properly.
I am a vim user but I do agree that nano is the more convenient way for beginners. Besides that, the version of vim installed with base is compiled with a low fetureset and represents a different package than extra/vim, in my opinion this is very confusing and unnecessary! cheers wakeup -- An Ashanti Proverb from Ghana - It is because of beauty, that is why the woman holds her breasts when she runs, not because the breasts are going to fall -Fela Kuti
On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 10:25 AM, wakeup <wakeup@erehwon.de> wrote:
Besides that, the version of vim installed with base is compiled with a low fetureset and represents a different package than extra/vim, in my opinion this is very confusing and unnecessary!
Just have a look at the dependencies of vi and vim packages. The first can be in core/base, the second can't.
Le Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:25:00 +0200, wakeup <wakeup@erehwon.de> a écrit :
I am a vim user but I do agree that nano is the more convenient way for beginners.
Same here.
Besides that, the version of vim installed with base is compiled with a low fetureset and represents a different package than extra/vim, in my opinion this is very confusing and unnecessary!
I use vim from base (vi), mostly because their buffers don't behave the same way. With vi I can copy and paste using middle click between my laptop and my server through ssh in urxvt out-of-the-box, with vim I have to change some configuration options. And anyway, I don't need the extra bloat added by --with-features=big --with-x=yes. -- catwell
On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Pierre Chapuis <catwell@archlinux.us> wrote:
I use vim from base (vi), mostly because their buffers don't behave the same way. With vi I can copy and paste using middle click between my laptop and my server through ssh in urxvt out-of-the-box, with vim I have to change some configuration options.
I have this in my .vimrc : set mouse=v " disable the mouse
On Sat 2008-08-30 17:52, Karolina Lindqvist wrote:
lördagen den 30 augusti 2008 skrev Alessio Bolognino:
This might end up in a flamwar, but if we have to remove one editor I would vote vor vim and keep nano. [... more nonsense ]
vvvvvvvvv ************* ======================> * THIS * <================================ ======================> * IS * <================================ ======================> * MADNESS! * <================================ ************* ^^^^^^^^^
:%s/Pierre Schmitz/Wuss Infidel/g :wq!
Please not vim, since if you don't know vim, you very fast get stuck. I just installed and tried vim, and first it beeped on any key pressed. Then somehow it stopped, and I could not exit instead. I tried CTRL-C CTRL-C...., and it said ":quit to exit", but it did not work either. So "killall vim" was the way to exit. Yes, madness is the right word.
nano is more logical. Everything you type inserts, and i has a menu at the bottom always. So you can figure out he first time.
vim is a speciality editor, since you need to know it to use it. emacs is similar there. Both require you to learn it to do even simple things. And when installing a system, you need something so that you can edit the files to get started. For a novice there should be an editor that is self-explanatory, and it appears that nano can work there.
But then I don't care since I anyway do: pacman -Rs vim nano
Well, I was just trolling; it's very likely that both nano and vi(m) will stay in base, so this discussion doesn't make sense, but vi is not just "an editor", it's the standard UNIX editor. -- Alessio (molok) Bolognino Please send personal email to themolok@gmail.com
Alessio Bolognino ha scritto:
On Sat 2008-08-30 17:52, Karolina Lindqvist wrote:
lördagen den 30 augusti 2008 skrev Alessio Bolognino:
This might end up in a flamwar, but if we have to remove one editor I would vote vor vim and keep nano. [... more nonsense ]
vvvvvvvvv ************* ======================> * THIS * <================================ ======================> * IS * <================================ ======================> * MADNESS! * <================================ ************* ^^^^^^^^^
:%s/Pierre Schmitz/Wuss Infidel/g :wq!
Please not vim, since if you don't know vim, you very fast get stuck. I just installed and tried vim, and first it beeped on any key pressed. Then somehow it stopped, and I could not exit instead. I tried CTRL-C CTRL-C...., and it said ":quit to exit", but it did not work either. So "killall vim" was the way to exit. Yes, madness is the right word.
nano is more logical. Everything you type inserts, and i has a menu at the bottom always. So you can figure out he first time.
vim is a speciality editor, since you need to know it to use it. emacs is similar there. Both require you to learn it to do even simple things. And when installing a system, you need something so that you can edit the files to get started. For a novice there should be an editor that is self-explanatory, and it appears that nano can work there.
But then I don't care since I anyway do: pacman -Rs vim nano
Well, I was just trolling; it's very likely that both nano and vi(m) will stay in base, so this discussion doesn't make sense, but vi is not just "an editor", it's the standard UNIX editor.
Ouch, +1 molok for president Imho, i think both should be in base, why remove one of them why will be the "benefit" of push the users to edit in just 1 editor, it's senseless, plus, some emacs lovers should hate the option that they weren't considered in put emacs on the list, so as Pierre says, *this will start a flamewar*, so consideer don't remove anyone. -- Angel Velásquez angvp @ irc.freenode.net Arch Linux Trusted User (TU) http://www.angvp.com
On Samstag, 30. August 2008 17:52 Karolina Lindqvist wrote:
vim is a speciality editor, since you need to know it to use it. emacs is similar there. Both require you to learn it to do even simple things. And when installing a system, you need something so that you can edit the files to get started. For a novice there should be an editor that is self-explanatory, and it appears that nano can work there.
+1 And just for the stats i use joe to edit config files on the console.
But then I don't care since I anyway do: pacman -Rs vim nano
And this works? I even see vi if i run a "crontab -e" which is the reason that i don't remove it until now. This is not bad because i use anacron and so i have only to fight one time for one line with vi.-) See you, Attila
* Attila <attila@invalid.invalid> [2008-08-30 20:12]:
And this works? I even see vi if i run a "crontab -e" which is the reason that i don't remove it until now. This is not bad because i use anacron and so i have only to fight one time for one line with vi.-)
$ VISUAL=nano crontab -e Bernhard
On Sat, Aug 30, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Bernhard Walle <bernhard.walle@gmx.de> wrote:
* Attila <attila@invalid.invalid> [2008-08-30 20:12]:
And this works? I even see vi if i run a "crontab -e" which is the reason that i don't remove it until now. This is not bad because i use anacron and so i have only to fight one time for one line with vi.-)
$ VISUAL=nano crontab -e
Oh man, can we stop this discussion? Both are staying. For the record, though, vi is required by SUS v2. While I don't think we follow all directives of the spec, it's useful to know that there *is* a standard that says "vi is part of unix" http://opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xcuix.html
* "Aaron Griffin" <aaronmgriffin@gmail.com> [2008-08-30 15:41]:
Oh man, can we stop this discussion?
Sorry, I was not for dropping vi. I just wanted to give Attila a hint how he could use nano for editing crontab. Bernhard
On Samstag, 30. August 2008 20:34 Bernhard Walle wrote:
$ VISUAL=nano crontab -e
Cool, thanks. I set only EDITOR which was not enough in this case. See you, Attila
participants (10)
-
Aaron Griffin
-
Alessio Bolognino
-
Arvid Ephraim Picciani
-
Attila
-
Bernhard Walle
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Karolina Lindqvist
-
Pierre Chapuis
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wakeup
-
Xavier
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Ángel Velásquez