Re: [arch-general] [arch-dev-public] ttf-ms-fonts (WAS: Re: [pacman-dev] [PATCH] New feature: files verification)
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 04:39:23PM -0500, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:25 AM, Pierre Schmitz <pierre@archlinux.de> wrote:
Am Montag, 30. März 2009 12:17:07 schrieb Thomas Bächler:
I say we drop it, as it does not meet Arch's packaging standards.
Yes, if we cannot package it the way we want, lets drop it.
Can we confirm that things look "nice" without these fonts? I remember fonts being terribly ugly way back when without this package.
Actually I would recommend that ttf-ms-fonts be made a depends, or at least an optdepends of wine. The text in some windows programs is unreadable without it.
Loui Chang wrote:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 04:39:23PM -0500, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:25 AM, Pierre Schmitz <pierre@archlinux.de> wrote:
Am Montag, 30. März 2009 12:17:07 schrieb Thomas Bächler:
I say we drop it, as it does not meet Arch's packaging standards.
Yes, if we cannot package it the way we want, lets drop it.
Can we confirm that things look "nice" without these fonts? I remember fonts being terribly ugly way back when without this package.
Actually I would recommend that ttf-ms-fonts be made a depends, or at least an optdepends of wine. The text in some windows programs is unreadable without it.
And there is/was a bug about text in youtube (or some other flash site) no showing without it being installed. Allan
Allan McRae schrieb:
And there is/was a bug about text in youtube (or some other flash site) no showing without it being installed.
Ah, that is why this is happening :) Anyway, as I mentioned before, the package does not qualify to Arch's packaging standards, so unless we can package it properly, we move it to AUR!
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:32 AM, Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org> wrote:
Allan McRae schrieb:
And there is/was a bug about text in youtube (or some other flash site) no showing without it being installed.
Ah, that is why this is happening :)
Anyway, as I mentioned before, the package does not qualify to Arch's packaging standards, so unless we can package it properly, we move it to AUR!
If the packaging problem is simply the files being installed in /tmp, that can be easily fixed. Instead of installing the files in /tmp, just install them somewhere else (/usr/share/ttf-ms-fonts/ ?) where they won't be deleted.
Eric Bélanger schrieb:
If the packaging problem is simply the files being installed in /tmp, that can be easily fixed. Instead of installing the files in /tmp, just install them somewhere else (/usr/share/ttf-ms-fonts/ ?) where they won't be deleted.
The problem is that files are installed at run-time and cannot be tracked by pacman. That is a no-go for packages!
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org> wrote:
Eric Bélanger schrieb:
If the packaging problem is simply the files being installed in /tmp, that can be easily fixed. Instead of installing the files in /tmp, just install them somewhere else (/usr/share/ttf-ms-fonts/ ?) where they won't be deleted.
The problem is that files are installed at run-time and cannot be tracked by pacman. That is a no-go for packages!
We've allowed it in the past when the package has been of significance. Like nvidia and fglrx before those were rewritten. Though I have all the fonts in my own ~/.fonts, I'd prefer to keep the package in the repos. Installation was at 70% in pkgstats. James
James Rayner schrieb:
We've allowed it in the past when the package has been of significance. Like nvidia and fglrx before those were rewritten.
And we've fixed them and they're not broken any more.
Though I have all the fonts in my own ~/.fonts, I'd prefer to keep the package in the repos. Installation was at 70% in pkgstats.
Since when are we concerned by that? Our philosophy is to create the distro in a clean way, not to do weird hacks just to satisfy our users. Our userbase is very comfortable with the AUR and they have always installed missing and problematic applications from there. ttf-ms-fonts is no different, it is in the AUR (with a clean package, http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=5418).
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:55 AM, Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org> wrote:
James Rayner schrieb:
We've allowed it in the past when the package has been of significance. Like nvidia and fglrx before those were rewritten.
And we've fixed them and they're not broken any more.
Though I have all the fonts in my own ~/.fonts, I'd prefer to keep the package in the repos. Installation was at 70% in pkgstats.
Since when are we concerned by that? Our philosophy is to create the distro in a clean way, not to do weird hacks just to satisfy our users. Our userbase is very comfortable with the AUR and they have always installed missing and problematic applications from there. ttf-ms-fonts is no different, it is in the AUR (with a clean package, http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=5418).
I see both sides here... I dunno what to do. On one hand, the package sucks. But on the other hand, we've always tried to keep useful things around, despite non-free status and the like. I think this package may be a "necessary evil"
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org> wrote:
Eric Bélanger schrieb:
If the packaging problem is simply the files being installed in /tmp, that can be easily fixed. Instead of installing the files in /tmp, just install them somewhere else (/usr/share/ttf-ms-fonts/ ?) where they won't be deleted.
The problem is that files are installed at run-time and cannot be tracked by pacman. That is a no-go for packages!
For this, we could use touch to create empty files in the correct location in the package. These empty files would be replace by the correct files on post install. Still messy but pacman will know which files belongs to the package. The downside is that we don't know the package size either on download or on install.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Eric Bélanger wrote: | On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:47 AM, Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org> wrote: |> Eric Bélanger schrieb: |>> If the packaging problem is simply the files being installed in |>> /tmp, that can be easily fixed. Instead of installing the files in |>> /tmp, just install them somewhere else (/usr/share/ttf-ms-fonts/ ?) |>> where they won't be deleted. |> The problem is that files are installed at run-time and cannot be tracked by |> pacman. That is a no-go for packages! |> |> | | For this, we could use touch to create empty files in the correct | location in the package. These empty files would be replace by the | correct files on post install. Still messy but pacman will know which | files belongs to the package. The downside is that we don't know the | package size either on download or on install. | test -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJJ0nbBAAoJEG0WVcFM4cE+W0YP/2c+78nCE3DfpUHchu76krgN NVdDSE+mJgNwa3qZISNhVppd3CYh1lExNaK349F33BVw2voIQwgmGODpF6zkuFxL 6pVP/sAi0RoJV3fhklIqDBzWAmmRheMneKemXXsraB6Qc97D+YHtHZRDzZfl2ecV 4cE8gsg2mfcom1PCZmDARneoky/NA2DeZQUnZ0PRDiq9UHYYT1zRrmVogciHTP0d rnlzsxlCBlZtln76vbVeVLPQpWBvFMpymofJYRqCkb2YX9rHJTESSVk+Uql7u56K b3Y/xdxDvozjaZ62+b3jBHnaSQUn8/Vaufj3mnZ0f8l8UrXo01tJDE38WmP3lSbG wi2Cs5fDL36+ch0/UllSttCzlyNDaRTKTrFJ5N9e5BrjezUQg5SApzzhWivq4C0D kgokwGwpX1JjNRh8eofgNODwalBplL4h1wpMhlv90bs25RnQtmhf2pSZG4gxQP8v WOCGQIJGJfHKwDV7xBpY7hgRGs/Hj4ZR/7N7km3Wirpk1YP2Wfk+tyde4e626YZH rZQBORXERxLnjeIykDNHE/PtWsLeRPiLvJeV1cBr+St8/mBGlEfHfKfr3dWhbPPv I+QVV2lPcDTKFq+iH8v8fQG9EY7tK8u+OLUfpliX01JpsYLpdsvEu3iVaUrGaOwO 7vjVDU4PjqXTDNGeX0YM =HZ+a -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Sorry guys, just wanted to test if my thunderbird still messes up the quotes when sending and thought you can't post to this list :( -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJJ0nc7AAoJEG0WVcFM4cE+JsIP/RsdziBYo/aFVWMwQfI0Ww9N haN5BPmrszHIH4ap/3QfsTcJ20eE2WzHlZPBlTJKFG0fvbJ2Z5JMlYEsMPJIYEK4 IQMmBg9sKjzD7Dp8oFHR+wV6lsNqCvf9iWNtkDC1xcvOQnzfKoPC1hW3RMyIa+qg 78bBJDynIg9mTmPwxf4PEuRmLabL1MZg70X8db+AHpbYBilx+sE3GluN1woATsOj WJnvKXC5CpvYUVLjD7e24j3vu5C14cODNoa4uA6uykyqTfyMuyCjX/p980jfIQKT S3YyoXbLO2LmXbANIIVmmTpEChR9prwIjSBg8zHjkQRTLe9rLW7d+wCY5wuxNr+W bNxgjXPuy/AljVCkyrx0bEV8ndQ5rpnI2YMj3ieJMsy5S8Mki1Ji5Zmuqy/ozi3W NV6k+DNU2FLlc1YbLnjF78E2WeQYbn0N6TGz6Gcy0/Z2Tywa9bhn0wqWF2aHq3pk +mD/QJ7Y/Edq7kdWn6/aZYFK2T+IUensZzRQcPEVmUhz2m78ex5s0Wfxdm9EOMyt 5SJRJNXyLldqdodUF8Wvuz1OLDERCkCY4dxmBB3EB+dqDljSmpFtFS00Snh4RpRW rr6SAjQv/f2SDl3dil9iAJEslkSTLD4jqnwy6VqqCe6iNHO1h4LxqRL1aVnS/sov hNNU1Scvs0bm6hr15fIn =n1I2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
I'd like to point out that ttf-liberation from [community] seems to be fully capable of replacing ttf-ms-fonts, at least it works well with flash (eg youtube) so I think ttf-ms-fonts are not so necessary.
Lukáš Jirkovský schrieb:
I'd like to point out that ttf-liberation from [community] seems to be fully capable of replacing ttf-ms-fonts, at least it works well with flash (eg youtube) so I think ttf-ms-fonts are not so necessary.
WOW! That is really great, thank you so much for that tip.
On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 7:51 AM, Thomas Bächler <thomas@archlinux.org> wrote:
Lukáš Jirkovský schrieb:
I'd like to point out that ttf-liberation from [community] seems to be fully capable of replacing ttf-ms-fonts, at least it works well with flash (eg youtube) so I think ttf-ms-fonts are not so necessary.
WOW! That is really great, thank you so much for that tip.
After this thread, I uninstalled ttf-ms-fonts and have been running without them for a few days. Fonts seem smaller by default, though, and password characters are a little weird (black circle instead of a *), but otherwise I noticed little difference. I did, though, install ttf-liberation
participants (8)
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Aaron Griffin
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Allan McRae
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Eric Bélanger
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Florian Pritz
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James Rayner
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Loui Chang
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Lukáš Jirkovský
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Thomas Bächler