Hello, So today I have been working on a new ArchWiki page and I have realised that I have never considered the differences in English language when writing the pages. I assume I am meant to stick to US English, but being a Brit we spell things slightly differently, and as it is habit I am not sure what I am meant to do. What is the conventions when it comes to the spellings you use within the ArchWiki pages, and if I accidentally spelt something "non-US English", would it matter too much? Thanks, -- Polarian GPG signature: 0770E5312238C760 Website: https://polarian.dev JID/XMPP: polarian@polarian.dev
On 1/23/23 16:09, Polarian wrote:
...
What is the conventions when it comes to the spellings you use within the ArchWiki pages, and if I accidentally spelt something "non-US English", would it matter too much?
Well, just consider the amount of non native English speakers users around the globe who contribute to the wiki, :) So if it's valid English spelling from the UK or the US, I guess it's valid for the wiki, hehe. And I hope if one introduces something wrong, others would be able to catch it and fix it, :) Greetings ! -- Javier
On 1/23/23 16:09, Polarian wrote:
...
What is the conventions when it comes to the spellings you use within the ArchWiki pages, and if I accidentally spelt something "non-US English", would it matter too much?
Apart from my obvious bias for UK-English (colour, trousers, rationalise) instead of (color, pants, rationalize) I think the official language of ArchWiki is US-English However, as long as the information is in readable English, I think it is perfectly acceptable to submit it in either UK, or US English. If anyone objects to seeing trousers instead of pants, they can always edit the article afterwards and pantsify it. PS: the above is my own opinion and I do not have any decision power
Hello,
Well, just consider the amount of non native English speakers users around the globe who contribute to the wiki, 😄 So if it's valid English spelling from the UK or the US, I guess it's valid for the wiki, hehe. And I hope if one introduces something wrong, others would be able to catch it and fix it, 😄
The issue with this however, is a lot of countries still argue what the "correct" spellings are, which could fuel massive arguments within the community, some portions of Europe use UK spellings, along with Australians and New Zealanders. Some other regions of Europe, I know of Romanians and Polish which use US English (it is what is taught within their respective education systems), so even within Europe there is a divide between the spellings. UK spellings are considered obsolete, sorry for any fellow Brits who take offense to this, it is the nature of the internet, US spellings are used even within the UK now, which just highlight how the UK spellings are dying out due to the adoption of a universal standard, or more commonly referred to as Americans having a large grasp over the internet (if you don't believe this check the locations of the root DNS servers, nearly all of them are hosted and ran by American companies, with a few dotted in Europe and one or two in Asia). So I naturally assumed that Arch Linux would enforce a US-only spelling in the documentation to prevent the spelling wars which could erupt. Thanks, -- Polarian GPG signature: 0770E5312238C760 Website: https://polarian.dev JID/XMPP: polarian@polarian.dev
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 22:09:53 +0000 Polarian <polarian@polarian.dev> wrote:
Hello,
So today I have been working on a new ArchWiki page and I have realised that I have never considered the differences in English language when writing the pages.
I assume I am meant to stick to US English, but being a Brit we spell things slightly differently, and as it is habit I am not sure what I am meant to do.
What is the conventions when it comes to the spellings you use within the ArchWiki pages, and if I accidentally spelt something "non-US English", would it matter too much?
Thanks,
Hello,
Apart from my obvious bias for UK-English (colour, trousers, rationalise) instead of (color, pants, rationalize) I think the official language of ArchWiki is US-English
We all have our biases which is the exact reason I brought up this issue, some people aren't as dismissive as you where they wouldn't care less what spellings are used, some people take this stuff seriously and the last thing I want to do within the ArchWiki is end up destroying it by arguing over spellings (All wiki pages I have wrote so far I have checked with American spell checkers to ensure my British spellings do not leak through).
However, as long as the information is in readable English, I think it is perfectly acceptable to submit it in either UK, or US English. If anyone objects to seeing trousers instead of pants, they can always edit the article afterwards and pantsify it.
What if people object to that, and then you get the war of reverting the change over and over again before an administrator has to solve this issue. That is my concern, that if I accidentally use UK spellings within Wiki pages, cause that is my nationality and it is what I am used to, I am not well versed in "American English" so I am bound to make mistakes, I want to be as non-biased as possible, I am trying to support the ArchWiki by documenting code which hasn't yet been documented there (and added their codebases to the AUR). So I guess the overall question is, do I continue checking ever page I write to ensure I have not accidentally spelt something in UK english, or do I stop worrying so much about something which should not be important, but a lot of people make important (I have unfortunately had people within the Linux community when discuss fibre optics within networking groups reply to my messages saying *fiber, so it is a valid issue and one I do not know the solution to) Thanks for the advice, -- Polarian GPG signature: 0770E5312238C760 Website: https://polarian.dev JID/XMPP: polarian@polarian.dev
Hello, Thanks for the link, the following applies to this conversation: "ArchWiki prefers no national variety of English over any other, adopting the same guidelines outlined in Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English; in case of conflict with any of ArchWiki's other explicitly defined guidelines, ArchWiki's prevail. When writing new content within an existing article it is recommended to maintain the spelling convention already prevalent in it; if the article does not have a clear prevalent spelling, write accordingly to the variant used in the edited section. Harmonizing the spelling around the edited content is acceptable, however refrain from performing edits whose main purpose is changing or harmonizing the spelling standard of articles or series thereof." However, the issue with this is that it does not clear anything up for me, it is basically just telling me to stick to one standard depending on the page, but what if the page has two different spellings?!?!? And what happens if some asshole comes along and decides to translate the entire page? I do not find this section helpful, as it is open to interpretation, and "refraining" from stupid edits does not solve the issue too. Do I intentionally write in US english as I have been doing, so that my wiki pages are better for the wider audience, or should I stop caring so much and just write with whatever spelling (in my case UK english), but what if that causes conflictions with others? I feel like I am trying to evaluate a complex subject, to get it down to a simple boolean answer, but in my case, I need to know EXACTLY what I should/should not do, and not have it left up to interpretation, otherwise the uncertainty will make me uncomfortable (Autistic trait sorry). Thanks for the advice, -- Polarian GPG signature: 0770E5312238C760 Website: https://polarian.dev JID/XMPP: polarian@polarian.dev
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 22:42:02 +0000 Polarian <polarian@polarian.dev> wrote:
Hello,
Thanks for the link, the following applies to this conversation:
"ArchWiki prefers no national variety of English over any other, adopting the same guidelines outlined in Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English; in case of conflict with any of ArchWiki's other explicitly defined guidelines, ArchWiki's prevail. When writing new content within an existing article it is recommended to maintain the spelling convention already prevalent in it; if the article does not have a clear prevalent spelling, write accordingly to the variant used in the edited section. Harmonizing the spelling around the edited content is acceptable, however refrain from performing edits whose main purpose is changing or harmonizing the spelling standard of articles or series thereof."
Here's a fresh idea: how about if we all just decide to get along? I'm a U.S. citizen, but I'm perfectly happy with British spellings. Most things are reasonably understandable regardless. Some things, like "pants", "trousers" and such are confusing, since Americans and Brits mean different things when they say them. But "color" and "colour" mean the same thing no matter which side of the Atlantic you prefer. The cited paragraph is principally a recommendation, not a mandate. Follow the recommendation. If the page is already British English, do that. New pages, do as you like. Again, all due respect to the O.P., this is a silly problem. Those who feel offended by spellings from the other side of the Atlantic should really seek something more important (world hunger? crime?) to winge about. Did you folks know that Google/Facebook/Apple spy on you? Worry about that. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Hello, You sound offended, so I would like to highlight I was not referring to you in any way being a US citizen.
Here's a fresh idea: how about if we all just decide to get along? I'm a U.S. citizen, but I'm perfectly happy with British spellings. Most things are reasonably understandable regardless. Some things, like "pants", "trousers" and such are confusing, since Americans and Brits mean different things when they say them. But "color" and "colour" mean the same thing no matter which side of the Atlantic you prefer.
I do not think the ArchWiki speaks about trousers/pants so I think we are good there, but the issue is you might not care, but some people do, like I highlighted in a previous response on this thread. People do intentionally go out of their way to "correct your spelling" even though it is correct, for your nationality. I would rather not have spelling wars, and just get on with writing ArchWiki pages.
The cited paragraph is principally a recommendation, not a mandate. Follow the recommendation. If the page is already British English, do that. New pages, do as you like.
What if the pages contain both British and American spellings, what do i do then?
Again, all due respect to the O.P., this is a silly problem. Those who feel offended by spellings from the other side of the Atlantic should really seek something more important (world hunger? crime?) to winge about. Did you folks know that Google/Facebook/Apple spy on you? Worry about that.
Unfortunately, as much as I would like to say this problem is silly, it really is not. There is genuinely a lot of people out there who take spelling very seriously, either to be an ass or because they are way too patriotic to their nationality that they feel the need to push it onto everyone else around them. To sum up this thread, so that others subscribed to this list do not contemplate unsubscribing, I am correct in assuming that in most cases it does not matter what spellings you use as long as it is clearly understandable by ALL English speakers, both American, European and Asian? Also as the for "lets all get along" comment, if only this was possible, all world issues could be solved at that point, unfortunately this will never happen, and there will always be a select few which do not want to get along, its life! Thanks for the advice, -- Polarian GPG signature: 0770E5312238C760 Website: https://polarian.dev JID/XMPP: polarian@polarian.dev
On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 23:29:39 +0000 Polarian <polarian@polarian.dev> wrote:
Hello,
You sound offended, so I would like to highlight I was not referring to you in any way being a US citizen.
I'm not offended at all, and I'm aware you weren't targeting me. All of what I've said is based on this: there is a scale of actions which offend, and a scale of justification for being offended. I'm of the mind that minor actions with (IMO) minimal consequences don't warrant being offended. And if people are, we should ignore them until they grow up. Correctly spelling words differently based on geography is one of those things. Some people are endlessly concerned with the "feelings" of others. I'm quite empathetic, but at some point, you simply have to ignore the feelings of others and get on with it. Or you could look at it this way: it's often better to ask for forgiveness than permission. 'Nuff said. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
participants (5)
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Andy Pieters
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Doug Newgard
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Javier
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paulf＠quillandmouse.com
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Polarian