[arch-general] KDE4.3 Beta - Rocks, still a bit rough, but very usable as a primary desktop
Listmates, Having been a leading pessimist of KDE4 since a crippled 4.04 was dumped on the openSuSE community on 11.0 and then more disappointment dumped again with kde 4.1 in 11.1, I have been skeptical if the desktop, which from first looks was something developed by teenagers on way too much Jolt Soda, would ever get to a usable state. Well for the past week I took the plunge again with openSuSE's 4.3Beta1 1- click install on my spare drive, and ... I never thought I would type these words, but I like it! It is more than usable as a primary desktop. That's not to say it doesn't still need a lot of tlc, but the bugs are largely run of the mill bugs that just need cleanup and aren't showstoppers. One of my biggest bitches has been the fish_kio functionality and the inability to connect to boxes across the internet (fish over lan worked). Well, fish over the internet isn't broken, it's just really screwed up! What that means is that you can actually get fish to connect to a remote box (you just have to repeatedly try the same connection 3-25 times have it connect- crash-disconnect until it actually succeeds in connecting and establishing a session for the first time) The upside? Once you establish the connection to your remote host the first time, fish will re-connect to it as usual. No kidding. Why it craters after connecting and before a fish session is established the on the first 3-25 times is still up in the air, as well as why it continues to work just fine after that... but it does. I have given kde4 on heck of a shakedown and added 15 or so new, along with a couple of old, bugs to bugs.kde.org. Here is a short list of the bugs from the shakedown of kde4 in the past few days (just add the "ID" at the end of: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id= if you want the details) ID Summary 195247 KDE4.3beta1 knotes causes SegFault in Kontact 195259 kmail "message structure" needs show/hide button 195505 Composer Standard Templates Defaults Not Reset After Default Pressed & OK 195635 Konqueror "Tabbed Browsing" Settings Do Not Take Effect until Restart 195808 File Manager Does Not Restore Saved Profile 195697 F8 (show hidden files) Requires Manual Focus on File List 158985 kbattleship freezes when attempting to join lan game 195528 Detail View: Clicking in space between File/Folder name and Size fails to place Focus 195533 kmail: No indication shown for Unread Messages in Collapsed Thread 195343 New sub-basket does not respect color scheme 195623 Basket Groups Not Expanded and Systray Icon Won't Restore Basket App 195489 Organization should be Formatted Name if no Family or Given present 195493 Groupware Integration Authentication Fails after Session Timeout 195523 "Formatted Name" Listbox needs to be accessible outside "Edit Name" subform 195367 fish_kio Fails in kde4.3 for konqueror, kate, kwrite, etc.. 176599 Wish - KfontViewer needs 'next->file' 'previous->file' and 'mark/tag' features 189583 Ability to add submenu "like editors" to kicker panel from classic menu If you have been staying away from kde4 until it was "usable" (as I was), well, "It's Usable!" in 4.3 Beta. The more users that take the plunge now and find the little snafus in their favorite apps and bug it to bugs.kde.org, the quicker it will be "Cleanly Usable" Now all I have to do is figure out how to get 4.3 Beta loaded on my Arch drive and I'll be golden! Seriously, I thought I would load kde4, see what had improved and be disappointed again, probably trash my elegant kde3 install with cross-configuration issues in the process, and have to dump the drive and reinstall. Was I ever pleasantly surprised. If you have been in the same holding-pattern lately in your thinking about kde4 as well -- I bet you will be pleasantly surprised as well ;-) Thank God .. There is hope for KDE4 after all! P.S. To really see the desktop effects as they should be, you need to adjust the "Animation duration" to something that is reasonable for your hardware (it is set to a terrible default for any newer hardware) In kde control center > appearance > desktop effects (then in the individual effect settings) try a setting of about 250ms and go up (most likely) or down by 50ms at a time until the effects smooth out and look right. 250-280ms worked fine on my laptop. I suspect the default is off by a factor of 10 from its intended setting which makes the effects look jerky and crude compared to the compiz effect they were based on. (the default is probably 25ms when it was intended to be 250ms) Anyway, it sure make the effects look much better. The kde4 desktop effects still don't compare to the equivalent compiz effects and there is no equivalent to certain compiz effects I really like (Expo, etc.), but what is there looks pretty darn good for KDE4 all things considered. Give it a go... Now where can I get 4.3 Beta for Arch? or at least a good howto on how to download the build dependencies needed to build from source. I'll check the wiki ;-) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Wednesday 10 June 2009 09:22:55 David C. Rankin wrote:
Now where can I get 4.3 Beta for Arch? or at least a good howto on how to download the build dependencies needed to build from source. I'll check the wiki ;-)
Subscribe to arch-dev-public and look for the kde-unstable repo. Yes, people using this repo really should subscribe and be warned for not so smooth updates. Direct links to the archive: http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2009-June/011863.html http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2009-June/011890.html -- Pierre Schmitz Clemens-August-Straße 76 53115 Bonn Telefon 0228 9716608 Mobil 0160 95269831 Jabber pierre@jabber.archlinux.de WWW http://www.archlinux.de
Pierre Schmitz wrote:
On Wednesday 10 June 2009 09:22:55 David C. Rankin wrote:
Now where can I get 4.3 Beta for Arch? or at least a good howto on how to download the build dependencies needed to build from source. I'll check the wiki ;-)
Subscribe to arch-dev-public
Pierre, Thanks, I was able to subscribe, but it appears Allan and Tobias don't like me over there :-( I can't post to the list: <quote> This list is for ArchLinux Development and is not open for public comment. If there is an important issue, please reply directly to the original author or to the general ArchLinux mailing list (arch-general@archlinux.org). Write access to this list may be provided in special circumstances, and may need to be evaluated by the rest of the developers. Please send an email to aaron@archlinux.org to request write access if you feel you fit a "special circumstance". </quote> and look for the kde-unstable repo. Where do I find this repo and do I need to do anything more than sync against the repo holding the 4.3 packages? Thanks. Yes, people
using this repo really should subscribe and be warned for not so smooth updates.
Direct links to the archive: http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2009-June/011863.html http://www.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-dev-public/2009-June/011890.html
-- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:39 PM, David C. Rankin < drankinatty@suddenlinkmail.com> wrote:
Pierre Schmitz wrote:
On Wednesday 10 June 2009 09:22:55 David C. Rankin wrote:
Now where can I get 4.3 Beta for Arch? or at least a good howto on how to download the build dependencies needed to build from source. I'll check the wiki ;-)
Subscribe to arch-dev-public
Pierre, Thanks,
I was able to subscribe, but it appears Allan and Tobias don't like me over there :-( I can't post to the list:
<quote>
This list is for ArchLinux Development and is not open for public comment. If there is an important issue, please reply directly to the original author or to the general ArchLinux mailing list (arch-general@archlinux.org).
Write access to this list may be provided in special circumstances, and may need to be evaluated by the rest of the developers. Please send an email to aaron@archlinux.org to request write access if you feel you fit a "special circumstance".
</quote>
and look for the kde-unstable repo.
Only devs or people close to Arch development can post there. Thankfully.
Where do I find this repo and do I need to do anything more than sync against the repo holding the 4.3 packages? Thanks.
Any mirror? eg http://ftp.ntua.gr/pub/linux/archlinux/ -- Greg
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 16:39:50 David C. Rankin wrote:
and look for the kde-unstable repo.
Where do I find this repo and do I need to do anything more than sync against the repo holding the 4.3 packages? Thanks.
Just enabled it in your pacman.conf: [kde-unstable] Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist [testing] Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist [core] Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist [extra] Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist -- Pierre Schmitz Clemens-August-Straße 76 53115 Bonn Telefon 0228 9716608 Mobil 0160 95269831 Jabber pierre@jabber.archlinux.de WWW http://www.archlinux.de
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 11:51:25 Pierre Schmitz wrote:
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 16:39:50 David C. Rankin wrote:
and look for the kde-unstable repo.
Where do I find this repo and do I need to do anything more than sync against the repo holding the 4.3 packages? Thanks.
Just enabled it in your pacman.conf:
[kde-unstable] Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist
[testing] Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist
[core] Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist
[extra] Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist
[Smacks Self!] Thanks Grigorios, Pierre. I'm still getting used to the arch way of doing things and where are the pieces are hidden. (smacks self again for good measure...) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 11:51:25 Pierre Schmitz wrote:
[kde-unstable] Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist
One more thing If I do a pacman -s -u What do I do with all the :: Replace kdemultimedia with kde-unstable/kde- meta-kdemultimedia? [Y/n] questions if I want to preserve my kdemod3 install? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:43:13 David C. Rankin wrote:
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 11:51:25 Pierre Schmitz wrote:
[kde-unstable] Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist
One more thing
If I do a pacman -s -u
What do I do with all the :: Replace kdemultimedia with kde-unstable/kde- meta-kdemultimedia? [Y/n] questions if I want to preserve my kdemod3 install?
I think I have it. I just did pacman -S kde kde-extragear and I bet when I update again, then they won't appear again. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 06:43:13 David C. Rankin wrote:
What do I do with all the :: Replace kdemultimedia with kde-unstable/kde- meta-kdemultimedia? [Y/n] questions if I want to preserve my kdemod3 install?
No idea why pacman asks this anyway. If you answer "no" it wont work; so just hit enter here. Mixing with kdemod is not really recommend. See http://kdemod.ath.cx/wiki/index.php/Repositories_and_Packages -- Pierre Schmitz Clemens-August-Straße 76 53115 Bonn Telefon 0228 9716608 Mobil 0160 95269831 Jabber pierre@jabber.archlinux.de WWW http://www.archlinux.de
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:51:19 Pierre Schmitz wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 06:43:13 David C. Rankin wrote:
What do I do with all the :: Replace kdemultimedia with kde-unstable/kde- meta-kdemultimedia? [Y/n] questions if I want to preserve my kdemod3 install?
No idea why pacman asks this anyway. If you answer "no" it wont work; so just hit enter here.
Mixing with kdemod is not really recommend. See http://kdemod.ath.cx/wiki/index.php/Repositories_and_Packages
Well, I'll probably just blow kdemod3 away if all goes well. Thankfully, I'm installing this on a desktop with an nvidia card. I think my laptop would melt down with its ATI card, no fglrx driver & desktop effects enabled -- I don't think I want to find out. We will see how this full kde4 install goes on Arch. I'm actually looking forward to it after my experience with it on my laptop with suse. So far I'm 18 bugs into kde.org and counting in the past 2.5 weeks on kde4. But kde4 is in reasonable shape all things considered. I just hope they make a real honest push to get rid of most of the bugs in the queue before 4.3. Most of the bugs really show the haste in which kde4 has been coded and most shouldn't be in a .2 release much less at .3 release of a desktop. fingers- crossed. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:51:19 Pierre Schmitz wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 06:43:13 David C. Rankin wrote:
What do I do with all the :: Replace kdemultimedia with kde-unstable/kde- meta-kdemultimedia? [Y/n] questions if I want to preserve my kdemod3 install?
No idea why pacman asks this anyway. If you answer "no" it wont work; so just hit enter here.
Mixing with kdemod is not really recommend. See http://kdemod.ath.cx/wiki/index.php/Repositories_and_Packages
Well, So far kde4 will not even install. After starting the install last night and going to bed. I woke to thousands of lines of: /usr/share/doc/kde/html/en/ksnapshot/window.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/ksnapshot.svgz exists in both 'kdegraphics-ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/bin/okular exists in both 'kdegraphics-okular' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/include/okular/core/action.h exists in both 'kdegraphics-okular' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/include/okular/core/annotations.h exists in both 'kdegraphics-okular' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/include/okular/core/area.h exists in both 'kdegraphics-okular' and 'kdegraphics' Evidently kde4 saw and conflict with the kde3 packages and didn't install anything. The last line of the output was: Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded. Talk about a bummer.... What does the brain-trust suggest? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
If you are planning on moving to KDE4, wipe out KDE3 and install KDE4. I'm moving to KDE unstable atm. Koffice was complaining at the begin, so I've remove it as he want kde-base4.2 I'll tell you if there is any trouble in the upgrade.
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 15:16:54 ludovic coues wrote:
I'm moving to KDE unstable atm. Koffice was complaining at the begin, so I've remove it as he want kde-base4.2
I'll tell you if there is any trouble in the upgrade.
Could you be more verbose about the trouble with koffice? Those problems are the ones why there is the kde-unstable repo. So please share your experience. -- Pierre Schmitz Clemens-August-Straße 76 53115 Bonn Telefon 0228 9716608 Mobil 0160 95269831 Jabber pierre@jabber.archlinux.de WWW http://www.archlinux.de
I'll dive into pacman logs. I've install koffice after upgrade and log-out/in, and it have install like a charm :-\ I reply in a couple of minute.
look like I'd installed koffice from aur, and haven't update it for some times. I can't found the error message in pacman.log, but I have an install in march, and that I've remove it today, plus a build in my home. By the way, kde4.3 is really cool.
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 08:16:54 ludovic coues wrote:
If you are planning on moving to KDE4, wipe out KDE3 and install KDE4.
I'm moving to KDE unstable atm. Koffice was complaining at the begin, so I've remove it as he want kde-base4.2
I'll tell you if there is any trouble in the upgrade.
Thanks Lodovic! I have my kde3 tweaked to perfection, so I guess I'm just reluctant to wipe the whole thing out. On the other hand, I could thrash the whole install and not really care as it is just installed as a second OS on a completely separate raid array on one of my servers. It is the install I used to first setup Arch and configure it as a server to see how it would function as a complete replacement for openSuSE on the box. (which it did flawlessly) If I was going to completely wipe out my kdemod3 install on that box before re-attempting the kde-unstable install, How do I completely remove it?? pacman -e kdemod3?? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
ludovic coues wrote:
If you are planning on moving to KDE4, wipe out KDE3 and install KDE4.
Again - not necessary. The stock Arch KDE4 packages can live side-by-side with kdemod3 just fine. Can't speak for kde-unstable, but I assume (hope?) it's installed in the same place as stock KDE4. DR
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 16:00, David C. Rankin wrote:
Well,
So far kde4 will not even install. After starting the install last night and going to bed. I woke to thousands of lines of:
/usr/share/doc/kde/html/en/ksnapshot/window.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/ksnapshot.svgz exists in both 'kdegraphics-ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/bin/okular exists in both 'kdegraphics-okular' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/include/okular/core/action.h exists in both 'kdegraphics-okular' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/include/okular/core/annotations.h exists in both 'kdegraphics- okular' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/include/okular/core/area.h exists in both 'kdegraphics-okular' and 'kdegraphics'
Evidently kde4 saw and conflict with the kde3 packages and didn't install anything. The last line of the output was:
Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded.
Talk about a bummer.... What does the brain-trust suggest?
i saw the same in a VM. pacman -Sf worked for me, tho i wouldn't use - f on my normal system...
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 15:18:49 Ed Jobs wrote:
i saw the same in a VM. pacman -Sf worked for me, tho i wouldn't use - f on my normal system...
No, don't even think about using -f or -d. Especially on an update. Those errors are prompted for a good reason and if you fore the install you system will be broken for sure. There are only rare cases when -f is an option and then you will only use it on one package. And only when you really know what you are doing. -- Pierre Schmitz Clemens-August-Straße 76 53115 Bonn Telefon 0228 9716608 Mobil 0160 95269831 Jabber pierre@jabber.archlinux.de WWW http://www.archlinux.de
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 15:00:32 David C. Rankin wrote:
Evidently kde4 saw and conflict with the kde3 packages and didn't install anything. The last line of the output was:
Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded.
Talk about a bummer.... What does the brain-trust suggest?
Make sure you don't have any third packages related to KDE installed (aka kdemod). If you don't have KDE installed from extra before there will be a problem with installing kde the first time from kde-unstable. If you install by group (pacman -S kde) pacman tries to install the kde group it finds in extra and the on in kde-unstable. And then you'll get a file conflict of course. Three options: * just install kdebase-workspace and everything else you need by hand * run pacman -S kde and make sure to answer "no" to all packages you will be asked for the second time (the first ones will be from kde-unstable and the other ones from extra) * Use the kde-meta group or kde-meta-* packages to install Note that this is just pacman's limitation and you are only affected when using testing/kde-unstable and don't just update but make a new install of KDE. See also: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/KDE_Packages -- Pierre Schmitz Clemens-August-Straße 76 53115 Bonn Telefon 0228 9716608 Mobil 0160 95269831 Jabber pierre@jabber.archlinux.de WWW http://www.archlinux.de
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 08:29:29 Pierre Schmitz wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 15:00:32 David C. Rankin wrote:
Evidently kde4 saw and conflict with the kde3 packages and didn't install anything. The last line of the output was:
Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded.
Talk about a bummer.... What does the brain-trust suggest?
Make sure you don't have any third packages related to KDE installed (aka kdemod). If you don't have KDE installed from extra before there will be a problem with installing kde the first time from kde-unstable.
If you install by group (pacman -S kde) pacman tries to install the kde group it finds in extra and the on in kde-unstable. And then you'll get a file conflict of course.
Three options: * just install kdebase-workspace and everything else you need by hand * run pacman -S kde and make sure to answer "no" to all packages you will be asked for the second time (the first ones will be from kde-unstable and the other ones from extra) * Use the kde-meta group or kde-meta-* packages to install
Note that this is just pacman's limitation and you are only affected when using testing/kde-unstable and don't just update but make a new install of KDE.
Err -- Ah Ha! So Arch uses /opt/kde for both kde3 and kde4 instead of leaving kde3 as /opt/kde and installing kde4 in /usr/bin. That's got to be the difference and the reason I can't have both kde3 and kde4 live side-by-side?? Is that correct? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
Err -- Ah Ha!
So Arch uses /opt/kde for both kde3 and kde4 instead of leaving kde3 as /opt/kde and installing kde4 in /usr/bin. That's got to be the difference and the reason I can't have both kde3 and kde4 live side-by-side?? Is that correct?
my /opt contain only openoffice, java and erlang stuff... Nothing concerning kde.
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 09:15:50 ludovic coues wrote:
Err -- Ah Ha!
So Arch uses /opt/kde for both kde3 and kde4 instead of leaving kde3 as /opt/kde and installing kde4 in /usr/bin. That's got to be the difference and the reason I can't have both kde3 and kde4 live side-by-side?? Is that correct?
my /opt contain only openoffice, java and erlang stuff... Nothing concerning kde.
My /opt contains the complete kde3 install in /opt/kde3: [09:19 archangel:/opt/kde] # l total 112 drwxr-xr-x 9 root root 4096 2009-04-21 12:02 . drwxr-xr-x 8 root root 4096 2009-06-14 04:04 .. drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 20480 2009-06-14 04:04 bin drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-10-10 08:03 env drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2009-04-21 12:02 etc drwxr-xr-x 67 root root 28672 2009-06-14 04:04 include drwxr-xr-x 7 root root 40960 2009-06-14 04:04 lib drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 4096 2009-04-21 12:02 share drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-10-10 08:03 shutdown -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
So I'm wondering why package are causing issues. Try to do what pierre have said, install only kde-base, and add bit by bit. As far as you have show, only kde-graphics refuse to install. Maybe the issue is only here. And on the other hand, desktop effects seems to not be driver related problems for me. I've no glossy stuff like cube desktop, KDE refuse to enable them, but I've now smooth login/logout and translucent windows when moving them. And all of this with movie player working smoothly, not like with KDE4.2
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 09:33:43 ludovic coues wrote:
So I'm wondering why package are causing issues. Try to do what pierre have said, install only kde-base, and add bit by bit.
As far as you have show, only kde-graphics refuse to install. Maybe the issue is only here.
And on the other hand, desktop effects seems to not be driver related problems for me. I've no glossy stuff like cube desktop, KDE refuse to enable them, but I've now smooth login/logout and translucent windows when moving them. And all of this with movie player working smoothly, not like with KDE4.2
Oh no, There were thousands of conflict errors. My scrollback buffer only caught the last 5000 lines. What I posted was just an example. See: (29k) http://nirvana.3111skyline.com/download/Archlinux/bugs/kde4-conflicts.txt.bz... I will try just the base install and report back. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 19:45:50 ludovic coues wrote:
my /opt contain only openoffice, java and erlang stuff... Nothing concerning kde.
It seems that kde4 takes /usr and kde3 takes /opt/kde. This is from stable kde 4.2.4 $ which kate /usr/bin/kate $ which konsole /usr/bin/konsole $ which kfile /opt/kde/bin/kfile $ which kdevelop /opt/kde/bin/kdevelop $ which kdesu /usr/bin/kdesu I have a ton of stuff in /opt/kde but that is related to kdelib3 only. $ pacman -Qo /opt/kde/bin/kdevelop /opt/kde/bin/kdevelop is owned by kdevelop 3.5.4-1 $ pacman -Qo /opt/kde/bin/kfile /opt/kde/bin/kfile is owned by kdelibs3 3.5.10-3 -- Shridhar
David C. Rankin wrote:
Err -- Ah Ha!
So Arch uses /opt/kde for both kde3 and kde4 instead of leaving kde3 as /opt/kde and installing kde4 in /usr/bin. That's got to be the difference and the reason I can't have both kde3 and kde4 live side-by-side?? Is that correct?
No. [darose@daroselin ~]$ pacman -Ql kdeutils | grep bin/ark kdeutils /usr/bin/ark [darose@daroselin ~]$ pacman -Ql kdemod3-kdeutils-ark | grep bin/ark kdemod3-kdeutils-ark /opt/kde/bin/ark Again, you can keep kdemod3 and kde4 side-by-side. The problems you're having are conflicts between kde and kde-unstable. DR
David C. Rankin wrote:
Well,
So far kde4 will not even install. After starting the install last night and going to bed. I woke to thousands of lines of:
/usr/share/doc/kde/html/en/ksnapshot/window.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/22x22/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/32x32/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps/ksnapshot.png exists in both 'kdegraphics- ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/ksnapshot.svgz exists in both 'kdegraphics-ksnapshot' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/bin/okular exists in both 'kdegraphics-okular' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/include/okular/core/action.h exists in both 'kdegraphics-okular' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/include/okular/core/annotations.h exists in both 'kdegraphics-okular' and 'kdegraphics' /usr/include/okular/core/area.h exists in both 'kdegraphics-okular' and 'kdegraphics'
Evidently kde4 saw and conflict with the kde3 packages and didn't install anything. The last line of the output was:
Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded.
Talk about a bummer.... What does the brain-trust suggest?
This is not a conflict between kde4 and kde3. You can tell because the kde3 packages are all prefixed with kdemod3-*, which does not appear here. This is a conflict between KDE4 and KDE4-unstable. I'd try resolving it by completely uninstalling all the KDE(4) packages and then reinstalling them (this time from kde-unstable). DR
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 10:21:02 David Rosenstrauch wrote: <snip>
This is not a conflict between kde4 and kde3. You can tell because the kde3 packages are all prefixed with kdemod3-*, which does not appear here.
This is a conflict between KDE4 and KDE4-unstable. I'd try resolving it by completely uninstalling all the KDE(4) packages and then reinstalling them (this time from kde-unstable).
DR
DR, I have never installed anything from kde4 prior to trying to install kde4- unstable. The only kde4 that is on my box would be from kde3 packages built against the kde4 runtime that have pulled in kde4base, etc. as dependencies. How would I uninstall this stuff so I can proceed with the kde4-unstable install?? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 10:30:48 David C. Rankin wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 10:21:02 David Rosenstrauch wrote: <snip>
This is not a conflict between kde4 and kde3. You can tell because the kde3 packages are all prefixed with kdemod3-*, which does not appear here.
This is a conflict between KDE4 and KDE4-unstable. I'd try resolving it by completely uninstalling all the KDE(4) packages and then reinstalling them (this time from kde-unstable).
DR
DR,
I have never installed anything from kde4 prior to trying to install kde4- unstable. The only kde4 that is on my box would be from kde3 packages built against the kde4 runtime that have pulled in kde4base, etc. as dependencies.
How would I uninstall this stuff so I can proceed with the kde4-unstable install??
Or better yet, why can't I just -f and Force the package overwrite in this situation?? -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
David C. Rankin wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 10:30:48 David C. Rankin wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 10:21:02 David Rosenstrauch wrote: <snip>
This is not a conflict between kde4 and kde3. You can tell because the kde3 packages are all prefixed with kdemod3-*, which does not appear here.
This is a conflict between KDE4 and KDE4-unstable. I'd try resolving it by completely uninstalling all the KDE(4) packages and then reinstalling them (this time from kde-unstable).
DR DR,
I have never installed anything from kde4 prior to trying to install kde4- unstable. The only kde4 that is on my box would be from kde3 packages built against the kde4 runtime that have pulled in kde4base, etc. as dependencies.
How would I uninstall this stuff so I can proceed with the kde4-unstable install??
Or better yet, why can't I just -f and Force the package overwrite in this situation??
-f is generally a bad idea. The only times I ever use it is a) in the rare occasions where pacman gets confused during an upgrade, or b) I want to temporarily uninstall and then quickly reinstall the same package, without having to also uninstall all of the package's dependencies. Trust me - don't use -f except for rare occasions like this where you're absolutely sure that you know what's going on better than pacman does. I would not say that that's the case here. DR
David C. Rankin wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 10:21:02 David Rosenstrauch wrote: <snip>
This is not a conflict between kde4 and kde3. You can tell because the kde3 packages are all prefixed with kdemod3-*, which does not appear here.
This is a conflict between KDE4 and KDE4-unstable. I'd try resolving it by completely uninstalling all the KDE(4) packages and then reinstalling them (this time from kde-unstable).
DR
DR,
I have never installed anything from kde4 prior to trying to install kde4- unstable. The only kde4 that is on my box would be from kde3 packages built against the kde4 runtime that have pulled in kde4base, etc. as dependencies.
AFAIK, none of the kdemod3 packages are dependent on KDE4 packages. They probably came in with some KDE app you installed. (e.g., k3b)
How would I uninstall this stuff so I can proceed with the kde4-unstable install??
1) pacman -Q | grep kde | grep -v kdemod3 2) Issue a "pacman -Rs" on every package that shows up from step one. If it pushes back at you telling you that one of those packages can't be uninstalled because it's a dependency for something else, then that'll tell you the reason why the kde4 packages got installed in the first place. At that point then you'll have to make the decision to uninstall whatever app it is that needed the kde4 packages. DR
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 10:45:31 David Rosenstrauch wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 10:21:02 David Rosenstrauch wrote: <snip>
This is not a conflict between kde4 and kde3. You can tell because the kde3 packages are all prefixed with kdemod3-*, which does not appear here.
This is a conflict between KDE4 and KDE4-unstable. I'd try resolving it by completely uninstalling all the KDE(4) packages and then reinstalling them (this time from kde-unstable).
DR
DR,
I have never installed anything from kde4 prior to trying to install kde4- unstable. The only kde4 that is on my box would be from kde3 packages built against the kde4 runtime that have pulled in kde4base, etc. as dependencies.
AFAIK, none of the kdemod3 packages are dependent on KDE4 packages. They probably came in with some KDE app you installed. (e.g., k3b)
How would I uninstall this stuff so I can proceed with the kde4-unstable install??
1) pacman -Q | grep kde | grep -v kdemod3
2) Issue a "pacman -Rs" on every package that shows up from step one.
If it pushes back at you telling you that one of those packages can't be uninstalled because it's a dependency for something else, then that'll tell you the reason why the kde4 packages got installed in the first place. At that point then you'll have to make the decision to uninstall whatever app it is that needed the kde4 packages.
DR
OK, I think I got it: [10:58 archangel:/opt/kde] # ( IFS=$'\n'; for i in $(pacman -Q | grep kde | grep -v kdemod3); do echo "remove: ${i%%\ *}"; done ) remove: kdebase-runtime remove: kdelibs remove: kdemultimedia remove: kdesvn [10:58 archangel:/opt/kde] # ( IFS=$'\n'; for i in $(pacman -Q | grep kde | grep -v kdemod3); do pacman -Rs ${i%%\ *}; done ) checking dependencies... error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies) :: k9copy: requires kdebase-runtime :: kdemultimedia: requires kdebase-runtime checking dependencies... error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies) :: k3b: requires kdelibs :: kdebase-runtime: requires kdelibs :: kdemultimedia: requires kdelibs :: kdesvn: requires kdelibs :: kdiff3: requires kdelibs checking dependencies... error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies) :: k3b: requires kdemultimedia checking dependencies... Remove (2): kdesvn-1.3.1-1 subversion-1.6.2-3 Total Removed Size: 33.00 MB Do you want to remove these packages? [Y/n] (1/2) removing kdesvn [######################################################################] 100% (2/2) removing subversion [######################################################################] 100% warning: /etc/xinetd.d/svn saved as /etc/xinetd.d/svn.pacsave warning: /etc/conf.d/svnserve saved as /etc/conf.d/svnserve.pacsave [10:59 archangel:/opt/kde] # for i in k9copy kdemultimedia kdebase-runtime; do pacman -Rs ${i}; done checking dependencies... Remove (1): k9copy-2.3.2-1 Total Removed Size: 3.44 MB Do you want to remove these packages? [Y/n] (1/1) removing k9copy [######################################################################] 100% checking dependencies... error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies) :: k3b: requires kdemultimedia checking dependencies... error: failed to prepare transaction (could not satisfy dependencies) :: kdemultimedia: requires kdebase-runtime [11:01 archangel:/opt/kde] # for i in k3b kdemultimedia kdebase-runtime; do pacman -Rs ${i}; done checking dependencies... Remove (7): k3b-1.66.0alpha2-1 polkit-qt-0.9.2-1 normalize-0.7.7-3 mpg123-1.7.3-1 kdemultimedia-4.2.4-1 kdebase-runtime-4.2.4-1 cdrdao-1.2.2-2 Total Removed Size: 120.38 MB Do you want to remove these packages? [Y/n] (1/7) removing k3b [######################################################################] 100% (2/7) removing polkit-qt [######################################################################] 100% (3/7) removing normalize [######################################################################] 100% (4/7) removing mpg123 [######################################################################] 100% (5/7) removing kdemultimedia [######################################################################] 100% (6/7) removing kdebase-runtime [######################################################################] 100% (7/7) removing cdrdao [######################################################################] 100% kdemultimedia not found, searching for group... error: 'kdemultimedia': not found in local db kdebase-runtime not found, searching for group... error: 'kdebase-runtime': not found in local db I'll report back after I try again.... -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 11:04:51 David C. Rankin wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 10:45:31 David Rosenstrauch wrote: <snip>
AFAIK, none of the kdemod3 packages are dependent on KDE4 packages. They probably came in with some KDE app you installed. (e.g., k3b)
How would I uninstall this stuff so I can proceed with the kde4-unstable install??
1) pacman -Q | grep kde | grep -v kdemod3
2) Issue a "pacman -Rs" on every package that shows up from step one.
If it pushes back at you telling you that one of those packages can't be uninstalled because it's a dependency for something else, then that'll tell you the reason why the kde4 packages got installed in the first place. At that point then you'll have to make the decision to uninstall whatever app it is that needed the kde4 packages.
DR
<snip> I'll report back after I try again....
Frick, Still 20440 lines of conflict: [10:34 nirvana:/srv/www/download/Archlinux/bugs] # wc -l kde4-conflicts- complete.txt 20440 kde4-conflicts-complete.txt The complete list is here (139k): http://www.3111skyline.com/download/Archlinux/bugs/kde4-conflicts- complete.txt.bz2 What now?? (the -f option is looking mighty good about now since most of the conflicts are man pages and icons.....) P.S. - Does anybody know how to paste text into kde4 kmail without it prompting for "Add as text" "Add as attachment"? That is annoying as hell when you are trying to do a simple middle-mouse paste... -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 1:15 PM, David C.
Rankin
What now?? (the -f option is looking mighty good about now since most of the conflicts are man pages and icons.....)
Have you used pacman -Qo to see what package is the current owner? When I have file conflicts, I always use that to find what to do. HTH -- ------------------------------------------- Denis A. Altoe Falqueto ------------------------------------------- George Carlin - "Electricity is really just organized lightning." - http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_carlin.html
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 11:15:31 David C. Rankin wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 11:04:51 David C. Rankin wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 10:45:31 David Rosenstrauch wrote:
<snip>
AFAIK, none of the kdemod3 packages are dependent on KDE4 packages. They probably came in with some KDE app you installed. (e.g., k3b)
How would I uninstall this stuff so I can proceed with the kde4-unstable install??
1) pacman -Q | grep kde | grep -v kdemod3
2) Issue a "pacman -Rs" on every package that shows up from step one.
If it pushes back at you telling you that one of those packages can't be uninstalled because it's a dependency for something else, then that'll tell you the reason why the kde4 packages got installed in the first place. At that point then you'll have to make the decision to uninstall whatever app it is that needed the kde4 packages.
DR
<snip>
I'll report back after I try again....
Frick,
Still 20440 lines of conflict:
[10:34 nirvana:/srv/www/download/Archlinux/bugs] # wc -l kde4-conflicts- complete.txt 20440 kde4-conflicts-complete.txt
The complete list is here (139k):
http://www.3111skyline.com/download/Archlinux/bugs/kde4-conflicts- complete.txt.bz2
What now?? (the -f option is looking mighty good about now since most of the conflicts are man pages and icons.....)
<snip> I know all the warning about not using -f, but after reviewing the conflicts being icons and other misc. files, I decided it was time for the 'nuclear option'. So I reared back and let the following fly: pacman -Sy -f kde kde-extragear and just hit return, return, return, return until it started installing. 264 packages later and after reinstalling k3b, and k9copy, walking over to the server (I was working from my laptop via ssh for the install) and logging out of kde3 and selecting 'kde' and the session type and .... ... ... ... DAMN what a good looking mirrored splash, and what a good looking desktop! It all worked like a charm. kdemod3 works fine and kde-unstable seems to be doing great. I'll start whittling away on more bugs on the arch version. QUESTION: Does Arch want to be cc'ed in any way on the bugs I file with kde.org? Some issues can implicate both arch as well as kde. What are the Arch guidelines on this?? Thanks for everyone's help! -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
David C. Rankin wrote:
I know all the warning about not using -f, but after reviewing the conflicts being icons and other misc. files, I decided it was time for the 'nuclear option'. So I reared back and let the following fly:
pacman -Sy -f kde kde-extragear
and just hit return, return, return, return until it started installing.
Just my $0.02, but bad idea. I'd think it's quite possible that you'd wind up with stray files hanging around by forcing pacman like this. It's never a good idea to leave system/app files hanging around that pacman doesn't know about, since you can wind up with weird file conflicts down the road. DR
Excerpts from David Rosenstrauch's message of Wed Jun 17 15:00:54 -0400 2009:
Just my $0.02, but bad idea. I'd think it's quite possible that you'd wind up with stray files hanging around by forcing pacman like this. It's never a good idea to leave system/app files hanging around that pacman doesn't know about, since you can wind up with weird file conflicts down the road.
DR
Wouldn't it also leave a bunch of programs "installed" but possibly broken/unused? Furthermore, doesn't pacman now think that two packages are responsible for the same file in a bunch of cases? Wouldn't that mean that if you then tried to remove the unused program, it steals a bunch of the files that are used by another program? What a mess! -- Andrei Thorp Development Co-op Xandros andrei.thorp@xandros.com www.xandros.com Random Quote (man fortune) ========================== Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth? -- Patrick Sky
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 14:00:54 David Rosenstrauch wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
I know all the warning about not using -f, but after reviewing the conflicts being icons and other misc. files, I decided it was time for the 'nuclear option'. So I reared back and let the following fly:
pacman -Sy -f kde kde-extragear
and just hit return, return, return, return until it started installing.
Just my $0.02, but bad idea. I'd think it's quite possible that you'd wind up with stray files hanging around by forcing pacman like this. It's never a good idea to leave system/app files hanging around that pacman doesn't know about, since you can wind up with weird file conflicts down the road.
DR
I agree whole heartedly and I am a 100% advocate of "Don't do it unless you are absolutely sure what you are doing and what the results will be." It is the same philosophy that applies to rpm's --force option. So, in this case did I follow the rule? (1) Not a production box, Arch install isolated on a spare raid partition, all files (including Arch packages) backed up, nothing critical at risk. (2) The objective. To test and evaluate the installation of kde-unstable on the box while leaving kdemod3 installed. (3) The issue preventing a clean pacman install without -f: -- 20440 lines of conflicting icons, .desktop files, the same .so files, etc. repeatedly listed as a conflict for each package because 2 packages make use of them. (something just looks funny there) (4) The downside if it all goes wrong -- pop the arch disk in the tray; reboot; fdisk /dev/mapper/nvidia_ecaejfdi; then d, d, d, w; reboot and reinstall. (all the packages are already saved locally so reinstall isn't a painful download away) So sticking to the rule, I knew exactly what I was doing and knew exactly what the results would be (...within a slight range so to speak;-) But, seriously, I'm not real sure pacman is thinking correctly on this kde- unstable install. I don't have kde4 installed, but it looks like it sure thinks I do. Take for example the conflicts listed just with regard to "kate". (A standard package, not overly complex, but big enough to provide an example) The conflicts in the attachment to keep the lines from wrapping). All of the conflicts are of the form: application.h exists in both 'kdesdk-kate' and 'kdesdk' To which the logical answer is "yes, I know, it is supposed to, right?". What I don't understand is why should you have to either uninstall kdesdk-kate or kdesdk to make pacman happy? Even if you remove both, after you install then application.h exists in both 'kdesdk-kate' and 'kdesdk' -- again. And, if I force the install of a new application.h that will exist in both 'kdesdk-kate' and 'kdesdk' again anyway -- what's the harm? Following the install, I tested with an update to see the result. The first time it installed 15 or so packages and replaced whatever pacman thought was kde4 with kde4-unstable: :: Starting full system upgrade... :: Replace kdeaccessibility with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeaccessibility? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeadmin with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeadmin? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeartwork with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeartwork? [Y/n] :: Replace kdebase with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdebase? [Y/n] :: Replace kdebindings with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdebindings? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeedu with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeedu? [Y/n] :: Replace kdegames with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdegames? [Y/n] :: Replace kdegraphics with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdegraphics? [Y/n] :: Replace kdemultimedia with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdemultimedia? [Y/n] :: Replace kdenetwork with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdenetwork? [Y/n] :: Replace kdepim with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdepim? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeplasma-addons with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeplasma-addons? [Y/n] :: Replace kdesdk with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdesdk? [Y/n] :: Replace kdetoys with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdetoys? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeutils with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeutils? [Y/n] :: Replace kdewebdev with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdewebdev? [Y/n] Then running it again, all was well: [14:37 archangel:/etc/php] # pms -u :: Synchronizing package databases... kdemod-legacy is up to date kde-unstable is up to date core is up to date extra is up to date community is up to date archlinuxfr is up to date :: Starting full system upgrade... local database is up to date I'll keep an eye on it, but in working with it for a while, I think we're good. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
David C. Rankin wrote:
(1) Not a production box, Arch install isolated on a spare raid partition, all files (including Arch packages) backed up, nothing critical at risk.
(4) The downside if it all goes wrong -- pop the arch disk in the tray; reboot
OK, fair enough, then. As long as you're aware of the potential consequences.
But, seriously, I'm not real sure pacman is thinking correctly on this kde- unstable install. I don't have kde4 installed, but it looks like it sure thinks I do.
Actually, it sounds to me like you *do* have kde4 installed, but you don't think you do.
Take for example the conflicts listed just with regard to "kate". (A standard package, not overly complex, but big enough to provide an example) The conflicts in the attachment to keep the lines from wrapping).
All of the conflicts are of the form:
application.h exists in both 'kdesdk-kate' and 'kdesdk'
OK, so given that message: kdesdk is the stock Arch KDE4 package. I'm guessing that the kdesdk-* packages are the kde-unstable equivalent. So pacman is saying: dude, I can't install kdesdk-kate because its files already exist on disk (belonging to package kdesdk). Solution? First remove kdesdk (from stock Arch), then install kdesk-kate (from unstable). Or, more likely: pacman -Rs kde (remove all the stock Arch KDE packages that you already have installed) pacman -S kde (install all the KDE packages from unstable) So 'kdesdk-kate' and 'kdesdk' will not wind up both being installed on disk simultaneously. They are from different repos (kde-unstable and extra, respectively), and conflict with each other. And so one must be uninstalled before the other can be installed. Make sense? DR
Following the install, I tested with an update to see the result. The first time it installed 15 or so packages and replaced whatever pacman thought was kde4 with kde4-unstable:
:: Starting full system upgrade... :: Replace kdeaccessibility with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeaccessibility? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeadmin with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeadmin? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeartwork with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeartwork? [Y/n] :: Replace kdebase with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdebase? [Y/n] :: Replace kdebindings with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdebindings? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeedu with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeedu? [Y/n] :: Replace kdegames with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdegames? [Y/n] :: Replace kdegraphics with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdegraphics? [Y/n] :: Replace kdemultimedia with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdemultimedia? [Y/n] :: Replace kdenetwork with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdenetwork? [Y/n] :: Replace kdepim with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdepim? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeplasma-addons with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeplasma-addons? [Y/n] :: Replace kdesdk with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdesdk? [Y/n] :: Replace kdetoys with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdetoys? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeutils with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeutils? [Y/n] :: Replace kdewebdev with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdewebdev? [Y/n]
Yes, exactly! The kde-unstable packages replace the Arch stock packages.
Then running it again, all was well:
[14:37 archangel:/etc/php] # pms -u :: Synchronizing package databases... kdemod-legacy is up to date kde-unstable is up to date core is up to date extra is up to date community is up to date archlinuxfr is up to date :: Starting full system upgrade... local database is up to date
I'll keep an eye on it, but in working with it for a while, I think we're good.
OK, yeah. Now that I see these 2 final pacman outputs (i.e., first where the unstable packages are replacing the stock ones, and then where pacman runs normally and installs nothing) it looks like you do in fact have things set up properly in pacman, though you came about it in a roundabout way. So sounds like you won't have more trouble from here on. DR
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 17:06:11 David Rosenstrauch wrote:
David C. Rankin wrote:
(1) Not a production box, Arch install isolated on a spare raid partition, all files (including Arch packages) backed up, nothing critical at risk.
(4) The downside if it all goes wrong -- pop the arch disk in the tray; reboot
OK, fair enough, then. As long as you're aware of the potential consequences.
But, seriously, I'm not real sure pacman is thinking correctly on this kde- unstable install. I don't have kde4 installed, but it looks like it sure thinks I do.
Actually, it sounds to me like you *do* have kde4 installed, but you don't think you do.
Take for example the conflicts listed just with regard to "kate". (A standard package, not overly complex, but big enough to provide an example) The conflicts in the attachment to keep the lines from wrapping).
All of the conflicts are of the form:
application.h exists in both 'kdesdk-kate' and 'kdesdk'
OK, so given that message: kdesdk is the stock Arch KDE4 package. I'm guessing that the kdesdk-* packages are the kde-unstable equivalent. So pacman is saying: dude, I can't install kdesdk-kate because its files already exist on disk (belonging to package kdesdk). Solution? First remove kdesdk (from stock Arch), then install kdesk-kate (from unstable).
Or, more likely:
pacman -Rs kde (remove all the stock Arch KDE packages that you already have installed)
pacman -S kde (install all the KDE packages from unstable)
So 'kdesdk-kate' and 'kdesdk' will not wind up both being installed on disk simultaneously. They are from different repos (kde-unstable and extra, respectively), and conflict with each other. And so one must be uninstalled before the other can be installed.
Make sense?
DR
Following the install, I tested with an update to see the result. The first time it installed 15 or so packages and replaced whatever pacman thought was
kde4 with kde4-unstable: :: Starting full system upgrade... :: Replace kdeaccessibility with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeaccessibility? :: [Y/n] Replace kdeadmin with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeadmin? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeartwork with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeartwork? [Y/n] :: Replace kdebase with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdebase? [Y/n] :: Replace kdebindings with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdebindings? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeedu with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeedu? [Y/n] :: Replace kdegames with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdegames? [Y/n] :: Replace kdegraphics with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdegraphics? [Y/n] :: Replace kdemultimedia with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdemultimedia? [Y/n] :: Replace kdenetwork with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdenetwork? [Y/n] :: Replace kdepim with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdepim? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeplasma-addons with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeplasma-addons? :: [Y/n] Replace kdesdk with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdesdk? [Y/n] :: Replace kdetoys with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdetoys? [Y/n] :: Replace kdeutils with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdeutils? [Y/n] :: Replace kdewebdev with kde-unstable/kde-meta-kdewebdev? [Y/n]
Yes, exactly! The kde-unstable packages replace the Arch stock packages.
Then running it again, all was well:
[14:37 archangel:/etc/php] # pms -u
:: Synchronizing package databases...
kdemod-legacy is up to date kde-unstable is up to date core is up to date extra is up to date community is up to date archlinuxfr is up to date
:: Starting full system upgrade...
local database is up to date
I'll keep an eye on it, but in working with it for a while, I think we're good.
OK, yeah. Now that I see these 2 final pacman outputs (i.e., first where the unstable packages are replacing the stock ones, and then where pacman runs normally and installs nothing) it looks like you do in fact have things set up properly in pacman, though you came about it in a roundabout way. So sounds like you won't have more trouble from here on.
DR
OK, Let's go for 'Round 2'. I have an identical config on an i686 box, I've downloaded the kde-unstable files and now let's see if we can install kde- unstable with resorting to force (same qualifications apply -- this is just a spare box with Arch on it that I can thrash if I need to) First I'll dump all the packages to my server before I delete kde and then roll the packages back in for the install (just in case pacman may want to delete them -- dunno, not going to take the chance). I'll start a new thread "kde-unstable install - Round 2" when I have the results of my first attempt. Thanks! -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com
David C. Rankin wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 11:04:51 David C. Rankin wrote: >> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 10:45:31 David Rosenstrauch wrote: >>>> AFAIK, none of the kdemod3 packages are dependent on KDE4 packages. >>> They probably came in with some KDE app you installed. (e.g., k3b) >>> >>>> How would I uninstall this stuff so I can proceed with the >>>> kde4-unstable install?? >>> 1) pacman -Q | grep kde | grep -v kdemod3 >>> >>> 2) Issue a "pacman -Rs" on every package that shows up from step one. >>> >>> If it pushes back at you telling you that one of those packages can't be >>> uninstalled because it's a dependency for something else, then that'll >>> tell you the reason why the kde4 packages got installed in the first >>> place. At that point then you'll have to make the decision to uninstall >>> whatever app it is that needed the kde4 packages. >>> >>> DR > >> I'll report back after I try again.... > > Frick, > > Still 20440 lines of conflict: > > [10:34 nirvana:/srv/www/download/Archlinux/bugs] # wc -l kde4-conflicts- > complete.txt > 20440 kde4-conflicts-complete.txt > > The complete list is here (139k): > > http://www.3111skyline.com/download/Archlinux/bugs/kde4-conflicts- > complete.txt.bz2 > > What now?? (the -f option is looking mighty good about now since most of the > conflicts are man pages and icons.....) Not sure I understand. You wouldn't be getting *any* conflicts if you had uninstalled all the stock kde4 packages successfully. Output from the file you uploaded makes clear that you *haven't* uninstalled them. Problem: /usr/share/apps/kolourpaint/icons/hicolor/48x48/actions/tool_rect_selection.png exists in both 'kdegraphics-kolourpaint' and 'kdegraphics' Solution: pacman -Rs kdegraphics Problem: /usr/bin/dragon exists in both 'kdemultimedia-dragonplayer' and 'kdemultimedia' Solution: pacman -Rs kdemultimedia etc. Then, when you're finished with all that, you then install kde again - this time from unstable. Not sure I understand what the issue is ... DR
Pierre Schmitz wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 06:43:13 David C. Rankin wrote:
What do I do with all the :: Replace kdemultimedia with kde-unstable/kde- meta-kdemultimedia? [Y/n] questions if I want to preserve my kdemod3 install?
No idea why pacman asks this anyway. If you answer "no" it wont work; so just hit enter here.
Mixing with kdemod is not really recommend. See http://kdemod.ath.cx/wiki/index.php/Repositories_and_Packages
Yes, mixing KDE4 and kdemod is not OK. But KDE4 and kdemod3 (i.e., KDE3) can be installed side-by-side. DR
On Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 17:18 David Rosenstrauch wrote:
Yes, mixing KDE4 and kdemod is not OK. But KDE4 and kdemod3 (i.e., KDE3) can be installed side-by-side.
And how can this be done if kdelibs do replace arts? Have i after this kdemod3 without sound? See you, Attila
Attila wrote:
On Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 17:18 David Rosenstrauch wrote:
Yes, mixing KDE4 and kdemod is not OK. But KDE4 and kdemod3 (i.e., KDE3) can be installed side-by-side.
And how can this be done if kdelibs do replace arts? Have i after this kdemod3 without sound?
See you, Attila
The kdemod3 packages get installed /opt/kde, so they don't conflict with their KDE4 counterparts. And kdemod3 has its own arts package: kdemod3-arts. So if you start the kdemod3 desktop, the kde3 arts package will get used and you'll have sound. DR
On Mittwoch, 24. Juni 2009 22:15 David Rosenstrauch wrote:
The kdemod3 packages get installed /opt/kde, so they don't conflict with their KDE4 counterparts. And kdemod3 has its own arts package: kdemod3-arts.
So if you start the kdemod3 desktop, the kde3 arts package will get used and you'll have sound.
Thanks for the info and nice to know that i have the option to test kde4 with my real hardware instead of running it in a vm. See you, Attila
David C. Rankin wrote:
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 11:51:25 Pierre Schmitz wrote:
[kde-unstable] Include = /etc/pacman.d/mirrorlist
One more thing
If I do a pacman -s -u
What do I do with all the :: Replace kdemultimedia with kde-unstable/kde- meta-kdemultimedia? [Y/n] questions if I want to preserve my kdemod3 install?
None of this has to do with kdemod3. It's asking you to replace one KDE4 package with another (from kde-unstable). DR
On Wednesday 10 June 2009 09:22:55 David C. Rankin wrote:
195367 fish_kio Fails in kde4.3 for konqueror, kate, kwrite, etc..
fish:// is just an evil hack which should removed imho. Use sftp:// instead. -- Pierre Schmitz Clemens-August-Straße 76 53115 Bonn Telefon 0228 9716608 Mobil 0160 95269831 Jabber pierre@jabber.archlinux.de WWW http://www.archlinux.de
participants (10)
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Andrei Thorp
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Attila
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David C. Rankin
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David Rosenstrauch
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Denis A. Altoé Falqueto
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Ed Jobs
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Grigorios Bouzakis
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ludovic coues
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Pierre Schmitz
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Shridhar Daithankar