[arch-general] systemd native files in etc
Hi all, Given all the hullabaloo about systemd I thought I'd try it out. I went to the wiki and saw that it has listed several "native systemd configuration files" that it looks for, and if they're absent, it takes info from rc.conf. It's "strongly advised" (by the wiki) to use the native files. Is there a package that provides these /etc files, like hostname, vconsole.conf, locale.conf? It feels weird creating untracked files in /etc. Is there interest in an aur package (e.g. systemd_etc_files) that I could make with all the many comments and options that are essentially in the rc.conf (or other files)? What package will eventually provide these? MAQ.
Op donderdag 23 augustus 2012 16:14:26 schreef Qadri:
Hi all,
Given all the hullabaloo about systemd I thought I'd try it out. I went to the wiki and saw that it has listed several "native systemd configuration files" that it looks for, and if they're absent, it takes info from rc.conf. It's "strongly advised" (by the wiki) to use the native files.
Is there a package that provides these /etc files, like hostname, vconsole.conf, locale.conf? It feels weird creating untracked files in /etc. Is there interest in an aur package (e.g. systemd_etc_files) that I could make with all the many comments and options that are essentially in the rc.conf (or other files)? What package will eventually provide these?
MAQ.
No there is no package providing those files. why ? if arch would provide you with defaults every time the defaults get updated you would get *.pacnew files in your etc. since those files are depending on your system and are user choice it would not be good to provide those. so please don't create an AUR package providing those files. --Ike
On 23/08/2012 4:41 PM, Ike Devolder wrote:
Op donderdag 23 augustus 2012 16:14:26 schreef Qadri:
Hi all,
Given all the hullabaloo about systemd I thought I'd try it out. I went to the wiki and saw that it has listed several "native systemd configuration files" that it looks for, and if they're absent, it takes info from rc.conf. It's "strongly advised" (by the wiki) to use the native files.
Is there a package that provides these /etc files, like hostname, vconsole.conf, locale.conf? It feels weird creating untracked files in /etc. Is there interest in an aur package (e.g. systemd_etc_files) that I could make with all the many comments and options that are essentially in the rc.conf (or other files)? What package will eventually provide these?
MAQ. No there is no package providing those files.
why ?
if arch would provide you with defaults every time the defaults get updated you would get *.pacnew files in your etc. since those files are depending on your system and are user choice it would not be good to provide those.
so please don't create an AUR package providing those files.
--Ike This logic never applied before. mirrorlist, locale.gen, and many other files are always configured and included in packages. I don't necessarily mind the decision but I can't believe it was that simple. Was there any discussion about this somewhere?
Stephen E. Baker
if arch would provide you with defaults every time the defaults get updated you would get *.pacnew files in your etc. since those files are depending on your system and are user choice it would not be good to provide those.
By that logic, wouldn't I also not get an rc.conf file and rc.conf.pacnew files? This is provided by the initscripts package, I believe, so I thought maybe these files would be in the systemd package but they were not. Perhaps this is a transition decision.
It just seems like if there are 10 files that need to be created on every machine and then customized, why not make a package for it so that you don't need to remember the exact filename every time?
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Stephen E. Baker < baker.stephen.e@gmail.com> wrote:
files are always configured and included in packages. I don't necessarily mind the decision but I can't believe it was that simple. Was there any discussion about this somewhere?
Googling for this is difficult because the question gets asked about every
This logic never applied before. mirrorlist, locale.gen, and many other package's service file so the signal to noise about this exact topic is low. Any devs lying around with more knowledge/experience? MAQ.
Could default templates be provided in the post_install(){} hook for the systemd package? Something like post_install() { if [ ! -e /etc/timezone ] ; then cat > /etc/timezone <<EOF UTC fi if [ ! -e /etc/localtime ] ; then ln -s /usr/share/zoneinfo/UTC /etc/localtime fi if [ ! -e /etc/hostname ] ; then hostname > /etc/hostname fi } That way, on upgrade, they would not be overwritten, but on install you would at least have working settings. -- Sébastien Leblanc
The 23/08/12, Ike Devolder wrote:
No there is no package providing those files.
why ?
if arch would provide you with defaults every time the defaults get updated you would get *.pacnew files in your etc. since those files are depending on your system and are user choice it would not be good to provide those.
What upgrade are you talking about? OP is talking about configuration files not willing to be upgraded for years (if not for their whole life time). I tend to think it's a mistake. -- Nicolas Sebrecht
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Nicolas Sebrecht <nsebrecht@piing.fr> wrote:
The 23/08/12, Ike Devolder wrote:
No there is no package providing those files.
why ?
if arch would provide you with defaults every time the defaults get updated you would get *.pacnew files in your etc. since those files are depending on your system and are user choice it would not be good to provide those.
What upgrade are you talking about? OP is talking about configuration files not willing to be upgraded for years (if not for their whole life time).
I tend to think it's a mistake.
-- Nicolas Sebrecht
If the files are provided in linked packages to their functionality, there'd be a new .pacnew everytime the linked package was updated. If the files are grouped together in a 'default-confs' package, if for any reason upstream changes any one of them, all the rest would generate a .pacnew
The 24/08/12, Oon-Ee Ng wrote:
If the files are provided in linked packages to their functionality, there'd be a new .pacnew everytime the linked package was updated.
I have no idea what you are talking about, sorry. Packages have dependencies to other packages and I don't know how a package can be linked to a "functionnality". There is no SONAME for configuration files. Packages ― including dependencies ― have a litteral name and a version to know if a it needs update. As long as version dependency is not bumped, there won't have update (see dep_vercmp() in libalpm http://projects.archlinux.org/pacman.git/tree/lib/libalpm/deps.c#n353). BTW, my point is what kind of upgrade can you reasonably expect for such files, which you don't reply to.
If the files are grouped together in a 'default-confs' package, if for any reason upstream changes any one of them, all the rest would generate a .pacnew
Which remains to my previous point: what kind of reason could require an update for such files ? As a side note upstream is arch maintainers, here. -- Nicolas Sebrecht
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Nicolas Sebrecht <nsebrecht@piing.fr> wrote:
BTW, my point is what kind of upgrade can you reasonably expect for such files, which you don't reply to.
I can't see the future. 2 years ago would anyone have suggested the current arrangement?
If the files are grouped together in a 'default-confs' package, if for any reason upstream changes any one of them, all the rest would generate a .pacnew
Which remains to my previous point: what kind of reason could require an update for such files ?
As a side note upstream is arch maintainers, here.
My understanding is that the conf file locations (and contents) are synchronized between distros. A side-effect of systemd. Hence I don't believe Arch is upstream in this case. I do not know what sort of reason could require an update. I also would not bet on the files being in the same form and at the same location forever.
The 24/08/12, Oon-Ee Ng wrote:
My understanding is that the conf file locations (and contents) are synchronized between distros. A side-effect of systemd. Hence I don't believe Arch is upstream in this case.
AFAIK, systemd does not provide samples for /etc/localtime, /etc/vconsole.conf, etc. It provides manual pages only. If it would, not including them in the package would break the KISS principle as arch would not stick as near as possible to upstream.
I do not know what sort of reason could require an update. I also would not bet on the files being in the same form and at the same location forever.
Ok, I understand you. This leads to my next point: I do expect pacman to notify me with .pacnew files if a package like systemd require changes in configuration files. It would not be annoyance but expected behaviour. -- Nicolas Sebrecht
Oon-Ee Ng wrote:
On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Nicolas Sebrecht <nsebrecht@piing.fr> wrote:
The 23/08/12, Ike Devolder wrote:
No there is no package providing those files.
why ?
if arch would provide you with defaults every time the defaults get updated you would get *.pacnew files in your etc. since those files are depending on your system and are user choice it would not be good to provide those. What upgrade are you talking about? OP is talking about configuration files not willing to be upgraded for years (if not for their whole life time).
I tend to think it's a mistake.
-- Nicolas Sebrecht
If the files are provided in linked packages to their functionality, there'd be a new .pacnew everytime the linked package was updated.
According to the pacman man page (and my own experience), a .pacnew is created only if the file from the new package is different from the file from the old package. If both are the same, then no .pacnew is generated even if the user modified the file. It would therefore be a good idea to have these files in a package, because if an option is added to one of the files then it will be immediately apparent. Jerome -- mailto:jeberger@free.fr http://jeberger.free.fr Jabber: jeberger@jabber.fr
On Thursday 23 Aug 2012 16:14:26 Qadri wrote:
Is there a package that provides these /etc files, like hostname, vconsole.conf, locale.conf? It feels weird creating untracked files in /etc. Is there interest in an aur package (e.g. systemd_etc_files) that I could make with all the many comments and options that are essentially in the rc.conf (or other files)? What package will eventually provide these?
This seems like a no-brainer to me. These files should be in the filesystem package, along with fstab, crypttab, os-release, hosts, and all the other essential configuration files that are already there. These files form part of a new standard (or at least that is the intention), and both initscripts and systemd support them. Furthermore, although some people are talking about .pacnew files being created all the time, this just won't happen. Pacnew files are only created when the files are changed between package versions, which will rarely occur: most of these files will be empty by default, or contain some kind of brief documentation. The last time I remember fstab changing was when /tmp became a tmpfs by default, and I was glad pacman brought the change to my attention. The same is true of /etc/passwd and /etc/group (and friends). Paul
participants (8)
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"Jérôme M. Berger"
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Ike Devolder
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Nicolas Sebrecht
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Oon-Ee Ng
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Paul Gideon Dann
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Qadri
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Stephen E. Baker
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Sébastien Leblanc