Well, I didn't own the domain too, but do you think is it political correctness all over the place?
We removed a domain from mirror list because somebody claimed it's offensive. To justify it, we were protecting Arch Linux's reputation out of professionalism.
Isn't it literally self censorship? What if somebody claimed wtako.net offensive because of some cosmetic reasons? What will Florian do then? Remove it from mirror list because it offended nobody but him?
This incident is nothing but the most stupid thing I have seen in Arch community yet.
Saren
On 西元2017年07月25日 15:23, Philip Stark wrote:
I didn’t make any decisions.
Also I didn’t say the domain was not a joke. I even smiled. I am personally not offended by it (even though I have to say, I checked the content of the domain with a small amount of trepidation. It’s the internet after all…)
All I said is that it is a perfectly valid decision to disaffiliate because it sounds either like a joke in bad taste (which it is, and that’s fine) or like something genuinely illegal. Corporate IT usually does not investigate for long, they just come gunning for you.
Also, it wasn’t banned, it was simply removed from the official mirror list. It can still host all the arch linux materials it wants. Nothing changed that respect.
Your answers are a little black and white, don’t you think? This is JUST about protecting reputation. And Florian seems to value the reputation of a more corporate and conservative crowd more than the one of the 4chan/reddit crowd (or wherever one makes jokes like that nowadays. I am a little out of touch.)
I am not officially affiliated with Arch Linux, btw. Just to make this clear.
Cheers, Philip Stark
On 25 Jul 2017, at 09:13, Saren Arterius saren@wtako.net wrote:
Agreed. This domain is definitely linked to supporting patriarchy, pedophilia, human trafficking and slavery, and that's why this domain is no joke and must be banned for hosting Arch linux repo, which is 10/10 understandable. I support all of your decisions. /s
On 西元2017年07月25日 15:06, Philip Stark wrote:
Hi Saren,
Unfortunately the joke domain is lacking it’s “just-kidding" emoticon. We live in a world where appearances matter, as much as we all wish it wouldn’t. Many people not steeped in “lulz”-culture would simply not get the joke. And that is a problem, imho.
Cheers, Philip Stark
On 25 Jul 2017, at 09:00, Saren Arterius saren@wtako.net wrote:
Oh wow, did we just ban a mirror because of its joke domain? That's 10/10 professionalism indeed.
On 西元2017年07月25日 14:53, Philip Stark wrote:
Hi Midov, Alucard,
On 25 Jul 2017, at 08:11, Midov midov@midov.pl wrote:
> Dear Florian Pritz,
<snip> >> What does it take to remove all forms of free speech, before it >> doesn't >> matter to anyone at all? >> This is not about free speech.
As far as I understand, you are free to host Arch Linux material on your server under whatever domain you feel like. That is as far as free speech goes. The decision by the Arch Linux project (through Florian) was to stop listing your server, which would imply a certain affiliation. That is not about free speech, it’s a decision by a non-governmental entity. They have the right (legally and ethically, imho) to decide whom to affiliate with, irrelevant of the reason.
This is a move that was borne from a concern for the reputation of the project. You seem to value “teh lulz” high, which is your right. Florian valued the reputation of the project higher than your right to have a goofily named mirror on the official list. I agree. And I’m not sure why that is such a problem.
<snip> >> Could you keep a list of alternative domains not deemed safe for >> work, but >> still mirrors for Arch? >> >> >> >> Imagine if others were to host Arch, let's say on an OpenNic domain, >> or an >> onion address, would those get deemed Not Safe Work too? >> Maybe I'll register CIAloves2.divideandconqu.er to make it more >> palatable. >> How edgy...
I for one would download all my shit from cute loli mirror. Triggered feminists have no place on the free internet, let them go back to their censored safe spaces. Thanks for your attention.
Then go on, add this mirror to your config. Nobody asks you or them not to use this domain.
This is not about feminism, free speech or safe spaces. This is about protecting the reputation of a project trying to project a certain amount of professionalism. And to be honest, I feel a little tired of these discussions trying to use free speech as a shield to waste everyone’s time just because they feel their little jokes deserve wide-spread attention.
TL;DR: A non-governmental project has every right to associate with whatever entities they want. Florian felt that loli.forsale is a domain that does not represent the professionalism they would like to portray. Thus it was removed.
I will answer replies, but I will no longer post about this topic to this list, as I feel it would be spam.
Cheers, Philip Stark
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<0x0465A111.asc>
It's been four hours and more here and on reddit, and honestly I don't get the joke. It's just a gTLD with a short hostname, has a personal website setup and an ArchLinux mirror. If one can provide service that benefits others, then I cannot see the reason to remove that.
If it is a real offensive, then would the Arch officials list the complaint like DMCA request? In that way, the matter is more transparent and rational for people to evaluate the seriousness.
Yours faithfully, Ivan Ipm@lifeho.me Work: (+852) 5218-0135 PGP Fingerprint: DBF6 2ECF 37B6 A576 D8DA B759 1903 5262 2D55 348D [Key ID 56D7BEF6 has been revoked on Apr 14, 2017 due to weak algorithm]
On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Saren Arterius saren@wtako.net wrote:
Well, I didn't own the domain too, but do you think is it political correctness all over the place?
We removed a domain from mirror list because somebody claimed it's offensive. To justify it, we were protecting Arch Linux's reputation out of professionalism.
Isn't it literally self censorship? What if somebody claimed wtako.net offensive because of some cosmetic reasons? What will Florian do then? Remove it from mirror list because it offended nobody but him?
This incident is nothing but the most stupid thing I have seen in Arch community yet.
Saren
On 西元2017年07月25日 15:23, Philip Stark wrote:
I didn’t make any decisions.
Also I didn’t say the domain was not a joke. I even smiled. I am personally not offended by it (even though I have to say, I checked the content of the domain with a small amount of trepidation. It’s the internet after all…)
All I said is that it is a perfectly valid decision to disaffiliate because it sounds either like a joke in bad taste (which it is, and that’s fine) or like something genuinely illegal. Corporate IT usually does not investigate for long, they just come gunning for you.
Also, it wasn’t banned, it was simply removed from the official mirror list. It can still host all the arch linux materials it wants. Nothing changed that respect.
Your answers are a little black and white, don’t you think? This is JUST about protecting reputation. And Florian seems to value the reputation of a more corporate and conservative crowd more than the one of the 4chan/reddit crowd (or wherever one makes jokes like that nowadays. I am a little out of touch.)
I am not officially affiliated with Arch Linux, btw. Just to make this clear.
Cheers, Philip Stark
On 25 Jul 2017, at 09:13, Saren Arterius saren@wtako.net wrote:
Agreed. This domain is definitely linked to supporting patriarchy, pedophilia, human trafficking and slavery, and that's why this domain is no joke and must be banned for hosting Arch linux repo, which is 10/10 understandable. I support all of your decisions. /s
On 西元2017年07月25日 15:06, Philip Stark wrote:
Hi Saren,
Unfortunately the joke domain is lacking it’s “just-kidding" emoticon. We live in a world where appearances matter, as much as we all wish it wouldn’t. Many people not steeped in “lulz”-culture would simply not get the joke. And that is a problem, imho.
Cheers, Philip Stark
On 25 Jul 2017, at 09:00, Saren Arterius saren@wtako.net wrote:
Oh wow, did we just ban a mirror because of its joke domain? That's 10/10 professionalism indeed.
On 西元2017年07月25日 14:53, Philip Stark wrote:
Hi Midov, Alucard,
> On 25 Jul 2017, at 08:11, Midov midov@midov.pl wrote: > > >> Dear Florian Pritz,
<snip> >> What does it take to remove all forms of free speech, before it >> doesn't >> matter to anyone at all? >> This is not about free speech.
As far as I understand, you are free to host Arch Linux material on your server under whatever domain you feel like. That is as far as free speech goes. The decision by the Arch Linux project (through Florian) was to stop listing your server, which would imply a certain affiliation. That is not about free speech, it’s a decision by a non-governmental entity. They have the right (legally and ethically, imho) to decide whom to affiliate with, irrelevant of the reason.
This is a move that was borne from a concern for the reputation of the project. You seem to value “teh lulz” high, which is your right. Florian valued the reputation of the project higher than your right to have a goofily named mirror on the official list. I agree. And I’m not sure why that is such a problem.
<snip> >> Could you keep a list of alternative domains not deemed safe for >> work, but >> still mirrors for Arch? >> >> >> >> Imagine if others were to host Arch, let's say on an OpenNic domain, >> or an >> onion address, would those get deemed Not Safe Work too? >> Maybe I'll register CIAloves2.divideandconqu.er to make it more >> palatable. >> How edgy...
> I for one would download all my shit from cute loli mirror. > Triggered feminists have no place on the free internet, let them go > back to their censored safe spaces. > Thanks for your attention. Then go on, add this mirror to your config. Nobody asks you or them not to use this domain.
This is not about feminism, free speech or safe spaces. This is about protecting the reputation of a project trying to project a certain amount of professionalism. And to be honest, I feel a little tired of these discussions trying to use free speech as a shield to waste everyone’s time just because they feel their little jokes deserve wide-spread attention.
TL;DR: A non-governmental project has every right to associate with whatever entities they want. Florian felt that loli.forsale is a domain that does not represent the professionalism they would like to portray. Thus it was removed.
I will answer replies, but I will no longer post about this topic to this list, as I feel it would be spam.
Cheers, Philip Stark
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<0x0465A111.asc>
Apologies for not investigating thru, that given the original "mirror.cuntflap.me" was not accepted at https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/51870, then why would loli.forsale is being accepted in the end? Without discovering "the joke"? If this is all a drama then why all the add and remove?
Moreover, it's a Tier 2 mirror only... I wonder archlinux mirror list will ban .xxx tld as it tend to provide adult websites?
Yours faithfully, Ivan Ipm@lifeho.me Work: (+852) 5218-0135 PGP Fingerprint: DBF6 2ECF 37B6 A576 D8DA B759 1903 5262 2D55 348D [Key ID 56D7BEF6 has been revoked on Apr 14, 2017 due to weak algorithm]
On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Ip, Ivan m@lifeho.me wrote:
It's been four hours and more here and on reddit, and honestly I don't get the joke. It's just a gTLD with a short hostname, has a personal website setup and an ArchLinux mirror. If one can provide service that benefits others, then I cannot see the reason to remove that.
If it is a real offensive, then would the Arch officials list the complaint like DMCA request? In that way, the matter is more transparent and rational for people to evaluate the seriousness.
Yours faithfully, Ivan Ipm@lifeho.me Work: (+852) 5218-0135 PGP Fingerprint: DBF6 2ECF 37B6 A576 D8DA B759 1903 5262 2D55 348D [Key ID 56D7BEF6 has been revoked on Apr 14, 2017 due to weak algorithm]
On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Saren Arterius saren@wtako.net wrote:
Well, I didn't own the domain too, but do you think is it political correctness all over the place?
We removed a domain from mirror list because somebody claimed it's offensive. To justify it, we were protecting Arch Linux's reputation out of professionalism.
Isn't it literally self censorship? What if somebody claimed wtako.net offensive because of some cosmetic reasons? What will Florian do then? Remove it from mirror list because it offended nobody but him?
This incident is nothing but the most stupid thing I have seen in Arch community yet.
Saren
On 西元2017年07月25日 15:23, Philip Stark wrote:
I didn’t make any decisions.
Also I didn’t say the domain was not a joke. I even smiled. I am personally not offended by it (even though I have to say, I checked the content of the domain with a small amount of trepidation. It’s the internet after all…)
All I said is that it is a perfectly valid decision to disaffiliate because it sounds either like a joke in bad taste (which it is, and that’s fine) or like something genuinely illegal. Corporate IT usually does not investigate for long, they just come gunning for you.
Also, it wasn’t banned, it was simply removed from the official mirror list. It can still host all the arch linux materials it wants. Nothing changed that respect.
Your answers are a little black and white, don’t you think? This is JUST about protecting reputation. And Florian seems to value the reputation of a more corporate and conservative crowd more than the one of the 4chan/reddit crowd (or wherever one makes jokes like that nowadays. I am a little out of touch.)
I am not officially affiliated with Arch Linux, btw. Just to make this clear.
Cheers, Philip Stark
On 25 Jul 2017, at 09:13, Saren Arterius saren@wtako.net wrote:
Agreed. This domain is definitely linked to supporting patriarchy, pedophilia, human trafficking and slavery, and that's why this domain is no joke and must be banned for hosting Arch linux repo, which is 10/10 understandable. I support all of your decisions. /s
On 西元2017年07月25日 15:06, Philip Stark wrote:
Hi Saren,
Unfortunately the joke domain is lacking it’s “just-kidding" emoticon. We live in a world where appearances matter, as much as we all wish it wouldn’t. Many people not steeped in “lulz”-culture would simply not get the joke. And that is a problem, imho.
Cheers, Philip Stark
On 25 Jul 2017, at 09:00, Saren Arterius saren@wtako.net wrote:
Oh wow, did we just ban a mirror because of its joke domain? That's 10/10 professionalism indeed.
On 西元2017年07月25日 14:53, Philip Stark wrote: > Hi Midov, Alucard, > >> On 25 Jul 2017, at 08:11, Midov midov@midov.pl wrote: >> >> >>> Dear Florian Pritz, > <snip> >>> What does it take to remove all forms of free speech, before it >>> doesn't >>> matter to anyone at all? >>> > This is not about free speech. > > As far as I understand, you are free to host Arch Linux material on your server under whatever domain you feel like. That is as far as free speech goes. The decision by the Arch Linux project (through Florian) was to stop listing your server, which would imply a certain affiliation. That is not about free speech, it’s a decision by a non-governmental entity. They have the right (legally and ethically, imho) to decide whom to affiliate with, irrelevant of the reason. > > This is a move that was borne from a concern for the reputation of the project. You seem to value “teh lulz” high, which is your right. Florian valued the reputation of the project higher than your right to have a goofily named mirror on the official list. I agree. And I’m not sure why that is such a problem. > > <snip> >>> Could you keep a list of alternative domains not deemed safe for >>> work, but >>> still mirrors for Arch? >>> >>> >>> >>> Imagine if others were to host Arch, let's say on an OpenNic domain, >>> or an >>> onion address, would those get deemed Not Safe Work too? >>> Maybe I'll register CIAloves2.divideandconqu.er to make it more >>> palatable. >>> > How edgy... > >> I for one would download all my shit from cute loli mirror. >> Triggered feminists have no place on the free internet, let them go >> back to their censored safe spaces. >> Thanks for your attention. > Then go on, add this mirror to your config. Nobody asks you or them not to use this domain. > > This is not about feminism, free speech or safe spaces. This is about protecting the reputation of a project trying to project a certain amount of professionalism. And to be honest, I feel a little tired of these discussions trying to use free speech as a shield to waste everyone’s time just because they feel their little jokes deserve wide-spread attention. > > > TL;DR: A non-governmental project has every right to associate with whatever entities they want. Florian felt that loli.forsale is a domain that does not represent the professionalism they would like to portray. Thus it was removed. > > I will answer replies, but I will no longer post about this topic to this list, as I feel it would be spam. > > Cheers, > Philip Stark <0x0465A111.asc>
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