[arch-mirrors] Fwd: Russian Sanctions
Are any mirrors imposing sanctions with Russia? It's a dilemma; on the one hand there's regulatory potential for some hosting providers, and even on the other without regulatory compliance there's ethical considerations for uninvolved 3rd parties within borders such as medical and educational as well as government usage. Have any mirrors given this any thought? Any precedents taken? ~H -- This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
Without going into too much politics, to my understanding a significant chunk of the Russian populace does not support the recent actions of the government. Regarding taking actions past regulatory compliance, I do not think it would be appropriate to punish these people by """imposing sanctions""" (blocking off russian IPs from our mirrors). arch.mirrors.lavatech.top will remain available to russian IPs for the foreseeable future, unless we're required to by regulations. On 2/25/22 06:42, Tails Hon1nbo via arch-mirrors wrote:
Are any mirrors imposing sanctions with Russia?
It's a dilemma; on the one hand there's regulatory potential for some hosting providers, and even on the other without regulatory compliance there's ethical considerations for uninvolved 3rd parties within borders such as medical and educational as well as government usage.
Have any mirrors given this any thought? Any precedents taken?
~H
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
Regarding taking actions past regulatory compliance, I do not think it would be appropriate to punish these people by """imposing sanctions""" (blocking off russian IPs from our mirrors).
This is my current thinking, as gov can evade geo restrictions easily enough. Ours are temporarily closed pending a reply back from a lawyer but I expect them to re-open. Big question is the banks and businesses being called by name. If they come back and say we have to cut service (which happens at our router level, rather than the mirror level) I'm going to see if we can ACL to just the ASNs of the named businesses rather than general region. On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 11:49 PM ave via arch-mirrors < arch-mirrors@lists.archlinux.org> wrote:
Without going into too much politics, to my understanding a significant chunk of the Russian populace does not support the recent actions of the government.
Regarding taking actions past regulatory compliance, I do not think it would be appropriate to punish these people by """imposing sanctions""" (blocking off russian IPs from our mirrors).
arch.mirrors.lavatech.top will remain available to russian IPs for the foreseeable future, unless we're required to by regulations. On 2/25/22 06:42, Tails Hon1nbo via arch-mirrors wrote:
Are any mirrors imposing sanctions with Russia?
It's a dilemma; on the one hand there's regulatory potential for some hosting providers, and even on the other without regulatory compliance there's ethical considerations for uninvolved 3rd parties within borders such as medical and educational as well as government usage.
Have any mirrors given this any thought? Any precedents taken?
~H
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-- This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
It's not *politics,* it's**crazy man killing innocent people. Russian head is terrorist. I don't see here politics, if you think terrorism is politics, okay then... On 2/25/22 07:49, ave via arch-mirrors wrote:
Without going into too much politics, to my understanding a significant chunk of the Russian populace does not support the recent actions of the government.
Regarding taking actions past regulatory compliance, I do not think it would be appropriate to punish these people by """imposing sanctions""" (blocking off russian IPs from our mirrors).
arch.mirrors.lavatech.top will remain available to russian IPs for the foreseeable future, unless we're required to by regulations.
On 2/25/22 06:42, Tails Hon1nbo via arch-mirrors wrote:
Are any mirrors imposing sanctions with Russia?
It's a dilemma; on the one hand there's regulatory potential for some hosting providers, and even on the other without regulatory compliance there's ethical considerations for uninvolved 3rd parties within borders such as medical and educational as well as government usage.
Have any mirrors given this any thought? Any precedents taken?
~H
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
I would appreciate it if you could kindly refrain from personal attacks.
While I agree that the head of state indeed is committing atrocities, many that do live in Russia do not support him, and there is a complex political situation that lets him stay in power.
My point was that I do not feel qualified to publicly comment on the specifics of said complex political situation, and even if I did, I sincerely believe that this mailing list is not an appropriate place for that.
In any case, I do not find it appropriate to ban people from being able to update their laptops simply because they were unlucky enough born in a state that commits atrocities. Before you act, please remember that one's nationality or place of residence does not reflect one's beliefs.
-ave
On March 1, 2022 12:42:39 AM GMT+03:00, "Gytis C. via arch-mirrors"
It's not *politics,* it's**crazy man killing innocent people. Russian head is terrorist. I don't see here politics,
if you think terrorism is politics, okay then...
On 2/25/22 07:49, ave via arch-mirrors wrote:
Without going into too much politics, to my understanding a significant chunk of the Russian populace does not support the recent actions of the government.
Regarding taking actions past regulatory compliance, I do not think it would be appropriate to punish these people by """imposing sanctions""" (blocking off russian IPs from our mirrors).
arch.mirrors.lavatech.top will remain available to russian IPs for the foreseeable future, unless we're required to by regulations.
On 2/25/22 06:42, Tails Hon1nbo via arch-mirrors wrote:
Are any mirrors imposing sanctions with Russia?
It's a dilemma; on the one hand there's regulatory potential for some hosting providers, and even on the other without regulatory compliance there's ethical considerations for uninvolved 3rd parties within borders such as medical and educational as well as government usage.
Have any mirrors given this any thought? Any precedents taken?
~H
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
(n.b. I'd already replied with my clarifications in a divergence of this thread) The point of this was for those who provide a mirror, but may have obligations in their host country due to sanction type events, if there was any experience or precedent of how to handle the situation for those who had not dealt with it before. Our mirror is provided on the excess capacity of a business, and as such that business has to comply with sanctions where applicable. I do not feel it's right to assume anyones' motives, discuss politics, or similar. I'd already been advised since I started this in-house that, given the lack of precedent I could find for this particular case and it doesn't generate revenue showing it's related to commerce, that we could accept the risk to leave it on so I re-enabled ours over the weekend. Unless someone can point to any time their business supporting FOSS projects has been subject to this for the rest of us to navigate, I don't think this discussion will be fruitful going forward outside what's already been shared. I apologise for bringing this up, as apparently I may have opened a can of worms on an otherwise quiet mailing list. On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 4:28 PM ave via arch-mirrors < arch-mirrors@lists.archlinux.org> wrote:
I would appreciate it if you could kindly refrain from personal attacks.
While I agree that the head of state indeed is committing atrocities, many that do live in Russia do not support him, and there is a complex political situation that lets him stay in power.
My point was that I do not feel qualified to publicly comment on the specifics of said complex political situation, and even if I did, I sincerely believe that this mailing list is not an appropriate place for that.
In any case, I do not find it appropriate to ban people from being able to update their laptops simply because they were unlucky enough born in a state that commits atrocities. Before you act, please remember that one's nationality or place of residence does not reflect one's beliefs.
-ave
On March 1, 2022 12:42:39 AM GMT+03:00, "Gytis C. via arch-mirrors" < arch-mirrors@lists.archlinux.org> wrote:
It's not *politics,* it's crazy man killing innocent people. Russian head is terrorist. I don't see here politics,
if you think terrorism is politics, okay then... On 2/25/22 07:49, ave via arch-mirrors wrote:
Without going into too much politics, to my understanding a significant chunk of the Russian populace does not support the recent actions of the government.
Regarding taking actions past regulatory compliance, I do not think it would be appropriate to punish these people by """imposing sanctions""" (blocking off russian IPs from our mirrors).
arch.mirrors.lavatech.top will remain available to russian IPs for the foreseeable future, unless we're required to by regulations. On 2/25/22 06:42, Tails Hon1nbo via arch-mirrors wrote:
Are any mirrors imposing sanctions with Russia?
It's a dilemma; on the one hand there's regulatory potential for some hosting providers, and even on the other without regulatory compliance there's ethical considerations for uninvolved 3rd parties within borders such as medical and educational as well as government usage.
Have any mirrors given this any thought? Any precedents taken?
~H
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
-- This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
On February 25, 2022 5:42:47 AM UTC, Tails Hon1nbo via arch-mirrors
Are any mirrors imposing sanctions with Russia?
It's a dilemma; on the one hand there's regulatory potential for some hosting providers, and even on the other without regulatory compliance there's ethical considerations for uninvolved 3rd parties within borders such as medical and educational as well as government usage.
Have any mirrors given this any thought? Any precedents taken?
~H
It is precisely due to my consideration of uninvolved people (read: the majority of citizens in Russia) that I wouldn't suggest taking such steps until there is legal precedent or pressure from your ISP/hosting provider. On the same note, the discussions in free software communities to let software stop working in Russia via language setting, timezone setting, etc. worry me for that same reason. ~ Jeremy Kescher
Financial sector ties prompted this discussion on my end. I don't expect it to be pushy in our current position, but if there had been any prior precedent I could point to it would be helpful. I expect there isn't too much on that front, but couldn't hurt to ask. I expect that war wasn't on anyone's list for this year in terms of infrastructure planning. On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, 00:11 Jeremy Kescher via arch-mirrors, < arch-mirrors@lists.archlinux.org> wrote:
On February 25, 2022 5:42:47 AM UTC, Tails Hon1nbo via arch-mirrors < arch-mirrors@lists.archlinux.org> wrote:
Are any mirrors imposing sanctions with Russia?
It's a dilemma; on the one hand there's regulatory potential for some hosting providers, and even on the other without regulatory compliance there's ethical considerations for uninvolved 3rd parties within borders such as medical and educational as well as government usage.
Have any mirrors given this any thought? Any precedents taken?
~H
It is precisely due to my consideration of uninvolved people (read: the majority of citizens in Russia) that I wouldn't suggest taking such steps until there is legal precedent or pressure from your ISP/hosting provider. On the same note, the discussions in free software communities to let software stop working in Russia via language setting, timezone setting, etc. worry me for that same reason.
~ Jeremy Kescher
-- This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
Le 25/02/2022 à 06:42, Tails Hon1nbo via arch-mirrors a écrit :
Are any mirrors imposing sanctions with Russia?
It's a dilemma; on the one hand there's regulatory potential for some hosting providers, and even on the other without regulatory compliance there's ethical considerations for uninvolved 3rd parties within borders such as medical and educational as well as government usage.
Have any mirrors given this any thought? Any precedents taken?
Hello, I remember when I was a Mandriva contributor the Americans who wanted to sanction us because our president had refused to participate to the Iraq war... The decisions of governments are not those of the people. In my opinion, it is not our role to impose sanctions. We must leave that to our leaders who will have better targeted and more effective actions. My 2 cents. -- Olivier Thauvin CNRS - LATMOS ♖ ♘ ♗ ♕ ♔ ♗ ♘ ♖
participants (5)
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ave
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Gytis C.
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Jeremy Kescher
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Olivier Thauvin
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Tails Hon1nbo