Hi, In the project ArchWM-base, an effort of developing a 'perfect' Window Manager for Arch Linux, something fundamental is missing. I thought the current base (ver. 0.4.9.3) does the job but I don't think it will do, though, the base (not including Pacwm toolkit but the WM side) is good. Here lets consider its 'perfect'. But I still consider something is missing. Users will not be depended what ArchWM-base will offer but can contribute their own modules and features, but still something is missing. The configure for end users became easy by incorporating a runcom system similar to Arch (rc.conf and rc.sysinit), and the coding of all fvwm system files were change to simple format, but still something is missing. It is what you make it, but still something is missing. The missing part is caused by making ArchWM-base into a package and the users will wait for upgrades. It has same affect as the general Linux distributions making the end users depended what's offered. Arch Linux break that tradition by not having fixed releases but a continues upgrade. Also provided a means (ABS) of include users' own packages. The ArchWM-base use the same idea, allowing user contributions, but currently has "fixed" releases. Instead of making an ArchWM-base as an individual package, why not an ArchWD (distro). A "distro" running within Arch. Not only getting rid of the rigid concept of WM (managing windows what is actually quite limited) but creating a new style of "WM" same as Arch did as a distro. The ArchWD still manages the windows but aims to distribute WM and DE related packages (modules and scripts). Not only Fvwm based packages but also others. The style of upgrading the ArchWD system files and user contributed packages, will be same as pacman. The current name "pacwm" toolkit (confusing name) will be changed to "pactk" (package toolkit). To upgrade ArchWD and all installed user packages, simply run in terminal: pactk -Syu Sounds good? Or something is still missing? Wiki: http://user-contributions.org/wikis/userwiki/index.php/ArchWM-base Forum: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=15368 Why Fvwm and not PekWM: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=15222 Markku (rasat)