[arch-projects] window manager thought

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Dusty Phillips

28 May 2005 28 May '05

9:29 p.m.

This is sorta for Phrakture -- are you still working on a modular window manager based on litestep, or did you give that project over? but its also for anybody who's interested -- I know quite a few people are looking for 'the perfect window manager' and believe that such a program does not yet exist. I know about virtual workspaces and multiple desktops. I also recall Enlightenment allowing desktops bigger than the screen, but IIRC, you could only see a full screen at a time. What I'm thinking of now, is that often I need two windows open that are, by necessity, bigger than half the width of the screen, and in which I need to refer between the two often -- a browser and a text editor are a good example when you're coding HTML (This headache came to me at work, where I do web design and have to use WindowsXP and the horrid default window manager that comes with it... hmm, maybe I better try litestep. Man that would be cool, shock the hell out of my boss... oh yeah, this is windows, don't worry about it... hehehe). The way I generally work is to have the two windows overlap as little as possible; one upper left and one lower right, with an overlapping corner near centre screen, for example. I switch between the two as needed, and it seems like 2/3 of the time, information I need to read from one window is obliterated by the window that I am currently working in. Ah, one way around this is to use the composite extension... But, I'm wondering if anybody knows about a Window manager that would allow me to have the two windows side by side, not overlapping, but with part of both windows off the side of the screen. As I move my mouse to the right of the screen, it automatically moves the whole viewport to the right so I can focus that window. This is basically an extension of an 'infinite window manager' idea I had a while ago in which windows would never overlap (sort of like a tiling window manager, but they wouldn't necessarily have to be tiles; they would be floating windows that could be dragged anywhere except over top of other windows.) and the screen acts as a "viewport" into the infinitely sized desktop. You can move the mouse over windows. Now I'm even thinking that you could have the mouse always centred in the screen, and moving the mouse would actually move the entire viewport... would be hard to get used to, but could be interesting. I'm always bad for giving way too much background information like that. My questions are, does anybody know if any window managers that implement some of these ideas exist, and/or, would anybody (ie: phrakture) like to create something that could do this (ie: as a litestep module)? Oh, and does anybody think it would be a good or bad idea? Dusty

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Jason Chu

29 May 29 May

6:21 a.m.

...

But, I'm wondering if anybody knows about a Window manager that would allow me to have the two windows side by side, not overlapping, but with part of both windows off the side of the screen. As I move my mouse to the right of the screen, it automatically moves the whole viewport to the right so I can focus that window.

You could always add a Virtual directive to your xorg.conf file. Then you'd *actually* have a desktop that was larger than your screen and you could put two windows beside each other and use the mouse to push both sides... Jason -- If you understand, things are just as they are. If you do not understand, things are just as they are.

Dusty Phillips

5:01 p.m.

Thanks Jason, that's almost exactly what I wanted to try. I had to set the DisplaySize to keep the fonts from going huge as well. I'm not certain I like this configuration after all, but I'm going to try it. Does anybody else use virtual size on a regular basis? Dusty On 5/29/05, Jason Chu wrote:

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But, I'm wondering if anybody knows about a Window manager that would allow me to have the two windows side by side, not overlapping, but with part of both windows off the side of the screen. As I move my mouse to the right of the screen, it automatically moves the whole viewport to the right so I can focus that window.

You could always add a Virtual directive to your xorg.conf file. Then you'd *actually* have a desktop that was larger than your screen and you could put two windows beside each other and use the mouse to push both sides...

Jason

-- If you understand, things are just as they are. If you do not understand, things are just as they are.

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Aaron Griffin

1 Jun 1 Jun

3:58 p.m.

On 5/28/05, Dusty Phillips wrote:

...

This is sorta for Phrakture -- are you still working on a modular window manager based on litestep, or did you give that project over?

Yes, still working on it - but it's a side project... I lost a bunch of code a while back Right now I have alot of projects which are smaller, so I have brought to the forefront (I work that way, do the easy stuff first, hard stuff last).

...

but its also for anybody who's interested -- I know quite a few people are looking for 'the perfect window manager' and believe that such a program does not yet exist.

Ah but it will... someone so fasionably named it "phrakwm", he he In all seriousness, if my "vision" is correct, when this is done, it will be sort of like building a pillow fort when you were little.... the pillow fort was your design and exactly what you wanted, but the pillows and cusions and chairs were already made... they were all disjointed objects. I just have to make sure the "plumbing" is extensible enough before I go ahead and start shoe-horning SWIG and whatnot into it - never worked with that stuff, so it should be fun.

Dusty Phillips

4:52 p.m.

I can't wait for this perfect wm to come along. Don't call it phrakwm, because I'm sick of all the window managers with 'wm' in the title. Phrakstep, maybe, although there's enough of them out there with step in the title too... maybe Phrakdows, mwahahaha! After getting tired of wmii layouts and going back to wmi at home, I started thinking about another wm. I keep coming back to this one: http://pywm.sourceforge.net/ I never tried it, because it won't compile against the latest fltk and I'm not good enough with C++ to fix it (mind you, I only spent about half hour on it... and that entailed patching pyrex amoung other things...). I like the idea though... a Window Manager 'object' that can be used to create any number of window managers in python... I also looked at python-xlib... Thought somebody might be interested in the idea. Maybe I'll end up scripting JD4X one of these days too. bleh. I always think I *might* be interested in writing one of these things, but it never seems interesting enough to actually start. Just nothing existing is good enough. If only wmi-10 worked nicer with java apps. :( Dusty On 6/1/05, Aaron Griffin wrote:

...

On 5/28/05, Dusty Phillips wrote:

...
This is sorta for Phrakture -- are you still working on a modular window manager based on litestep, or did you give that project over?

Yes, still working on it - but it's a side project... I lost a bunch of code a while back Right now I have alot of projects which are smaller, so I have brought to the forefront (I work that way, do the easy stuff first, hard stuff last).

...
but its also for anybody who's interested -- I know quite a few people are looking for 'the perfect window manager' and believe that such a program does not yet exist.

Ah but it will... someone so fasionably named it "phrakwm", he he

In all seriousness, if my "vision" is correct, when this is done, it will be sort of like building a pillow fort when you were little.... the pillow fort was your design and exactly what you wanted, but the pillows and cusions and chairs were already made... they were all disjointed objects.

I just have to make sure the "plumbing" is extensible enough before I go ahead and start shoe-horning SWIG and whatnot into it - never worked with that stuff, so it should be fun.

Martin Lefebvre

5:13 p.m.

Phrakbox, Phrakua, BoredAtWorkWM etc... time to shut up now

...

I can't wait for this perfect wm to come along. Don't call it phrakwm, because I'm sick of all the window managers with 'wm' in the title. Phrakstep, maybe, although there's enough of them out there with step in the title too... maybe Phrakdows, mwahahaha!

-- Martin Lefebvre eMail: dadexter@gmail.com WWW: https://sigterm.homeunix.com Registered Linux User #349269 -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.12 GAT dpu s:-- a- C+++ UL++++ P-- L++++ E--- W+++ N++ o-- K- w--- O- M-- V-- PS PE Y PGP-- t+++ 5- X R- tv++ b+ DI-- D+ G-- e h++ r++ y** ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Andy Roberts

6:22 p.m.

On Wednesday 01 Jun 2005 17:13, Martin Lefebvre wrote:

...

Phrakbox, Phrakua, BoredAtWorkWM etc... time to shut up now

I like BoredAtWork :) Why not call it BillGates, and then at least Bill will have something decent associated with his name ;) Otherwise, what about PhuckedOffWithBloatedWMs? Andy

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I can't wait for this perfect wm to come along. Don't call it phrakwm, because I'm sick of all the window managers with 'wm' in the title. Phrakstep, maybe, although there's enough of them out there with step in the title too... maybe Phrakdows, mwahahaha!

Aaron Griffin

5:35 p.m.

On 6/1/05, Dusty Phillips wrote:

...

I can't wait for this perfect wm to come along. Don't call it phrakwm, because I'm sick of all the window managers with 'wm' in the title. Phrakstep, maybe, although there's enough of them out there with step in the title too... maybe Phrakdows, mwahahaha!

yeah I was messing with names and came up with nothing - though the backend utility junk I'm throwing in a namespace called "phrik" - phrik and phrak... I found it funny 8( maybe I'll just call it "phrak"... *shrug*, name is unimportant at this stage 8)

...

After getting tired of wmii layouts and going back to wmi at home, I started thinking about another wm. I keep coming back to this one:

http://pywm.sourceforge.net/

This one too: http://incise.org/index.cgi/Whimsy

...

I like the idea though... a Window Manager 'object' that can be used to create any number of window managers in python... I also looked at python-xlib... Thought somebody might be interested in the idea.

Yeah, I just don't think python is really up to the task of running a WM - it has the nice little habit of dying and dying hard "whoops, I fucked up - here's you stack trace"... I don't think I'd trust it... but that's just me

Dusty Phillips

6:39 p.m.

...

yeah I was messing with names and came up with nothing - though the backend utility junk I'm throwing in a namespace called "phrik" - phrik and phrak... I found it funny 8(

maybe I'll just call it "phrak"... *shrug*, name is unimportant at this stage 8)

come on, branding is everything. I'll help come up with something. The guy that named a virtual pet Buchuki, and two 3D interfaces Lebannen and Ensmer respectively can't be all wrong... Phraktured Windows? Too long... Phrakspot? Phrakenstein? Win3k? PhrakXP? Skripture? pikture? Pillow Fort?

...

...
After getting tired of wmii layouts and going back to wmi at home, I started thinking about another wm. I keep coming back to this one:

http://pywm.sourceforge.net/

This one too: http://incise.org/index.cgi/Whimsy

I never saw that one.. I was looking for where the goofs that walked out on Kahakai had gone. I'm going to try that when I get home, maybe hack on it a bit.

...

...
I like the idea though... a Window Manager 'object' that can be used to create any number of window managers in python... I also looked at python-xlib... Thought somebody might be interested in the idea.

Yeah, I just don't think python is really up to the task of running a WM - it has the nice little habit of dying and dying hard "whoops, I fucked up - here's you stack trace"... I don't think I'd trust it... but that's just me

On the one hand, yeah, but in the case of pywm, the dangerous code is mostly in a C or C++ object, so python just has to manipulate it -- glue the objects together. As for trusitng wms, I'm the guy that's been using unstable snapshots of wmii... used to crashing. Dusty

Jason Chu

2 Jun 2 Jun

1:34 a.m.

...

Phrakstep, maybe, although there's enough of them out there with step

Except that *step window managers are based on the NeXTSTEP system, originally developed by Apple in Objective C. Just like the *box window managers are (were, in the case of openbox) based on blackbox. Jason -- If you understand, things are just as they are. If you do not understand, things are just as they are.

Aredridel

1:36 a.m.

On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 21:34 -0400, Jason Chu wrote:

...

...
Phrakstep, maybe, although there's enough of them out there with step

Except that *step window managers are based on the NeXTSTEP system, originally developed by Apple in Objective C. Just like the *box window managers are (were, in the case of openbox) based on blackbox.

Except that Afterstep and Windowmaker are both written in C, with mostly just the NeXTSTEP or OpenSTEP look. No code is shared, and certainly not the spiffy design that is the OpenSTEP (now cocoa) API. Bummer 'bout that.

Dusty Phillips

2:10 a.m.

On 6/1/05, Aredridel wrote:

...

On Wed, 2005-06-01 at 21:34 -0400, Jason Chu wrote:

...
...
Phrakstep, maybe, although there's enough of them out there with step

Except that *step window managers are based on the NeXTSTEP system, originally developed by Apple in Objective C. Just like the *box window managers are (were, in the case of openbox) based on blackbox.

Except that Afterstep and Windowmaker are both written in C, with mostly just the NeXTSTEP or OpenSTEP look. No code is shared, and certainly not the spiffy design that is the OpenSTEP (now cocoa) API. Bummer 'bout that.

And LiteStep and DarkStep... and phrakture's nameless windowmanager takes motivation from liteStep.. Hmm, nameless nameless... names the mother of the ten thousand things... Dusty Dusty

Vinay Shastry

5:25 a.m.

...

and phrakture's nameless windowmanager takes motivation from liteStep..

Hmm, nameless nameless... names the mother of the ten thousand things...

that suggests "anamika" which means nameless in Hindi :P -- Vinay S Shastry

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Aaron Griffin
Andy Roberts
Aredridel
Dusty Phillips
Jason Chu
Martin Lefebvre
Vinay Shastry