[arch-releng] Assisting Chriss or adopting his CD as a separait project for Arch blind Users

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Re: [arch-releng] Wondering about...

Keith Hinton

7 Sep 2009 7 Sep '09

2:30 a.m.

Hi, As one of Chris Branon's friends, and as one who has submitted valuable feedback, I'd like to see Chrisses CD get more support from the Arch team leads, etc. I also have another suggestion. Why couldn't core snapshots be automatically generated, and Chrisses CD/and the other official images could be all updated? As newer kernels came out, we could even get weekly/monthly netiso images automatically wich each core update, so that we'd never have to worry about waiting for 2 3 4 months or whatever. :) Just a suggestion, only. I don't expect that this could be automated. I'm just suggesting something, nothing more. But the fact that this CD of chirsses is unofficial isn't great. He does a wonderful job. I'd like to see him get more people who could build CDs, or whatever. That way he doesn't have to do all the work, and can focuss on maintaing Speakup/etc. Maybe an #Arch-Accessibility channel should be created with an associated mailing list. Your thoughts? I welcome anyone including Chris and anyone else who feels that Accessibility is important to comment on this. I will CC this to Arch-General as well so that the community in general can be made aware of this. Also, I wanted to ask why weekly builds couldn't be done? I'm talking about autobuilds, btw, taht use your isoscripts. I have seen other distros that offer accessibilty I.e. GRML, etc, wich have automatic CDs. Gentoo now has minimal stage3 tarballs, and automated snapshots, etc. Just curious why Arch hasn't done somethinglike this. Thanks so much all, happy arching, and have fun! :) P.s. My favorite feature of the LiveCD (I've only used Chrisses bc I can't use the others) is that you folks don't start anything we don't want. This might also be a nice way to have chrisses work ported to AMD64, not just I386. Maybe someone has an 64-bit box to test chrisses CDs on? :) Regards, --Keith

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Dieter Plaetinck

8 Sep 8 Sep

9:38 p.m.

New subject: [arch-releng] [arch-general] Assisting Chriss or adopting his CD as a separait project for Arch blind Users

On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 16:30:00 -0600 Keith Hinton wrote:

...

Hi, As one of Chris Branon's friends, and as one who has submitted valuable feedback, I'd like to see Chrisses CD get more support from the Arch team leads, etc. I'ld like that too. The reason I didn't do much here is pure lack of time. And I probably speak for most of us.

...

I also have another suggestion. Why couldn't core snapshots be automatically generated, yeah we should do that at some point and Chrisses CD/and the other official images could be all updated? As newer kernels came out, we could even get weekly/monthly netiso images automatically wich each core update, so that we'd never have to worry about waiting for 2 3 4 months or whatever. :) sorry I'm out of the loop. is there a common place (wiki page)/project page/..? I know we've mailed around at several points in time, there should be a central place to keep information and to work on this stuff.

...

Just a suggestion, only. I don't expect that this could be automated. I'm just suggesting something, nothing more. But the fact that this CD of chirsses is unofficial isn't great. He does a wonderful job. I'd like to see him get more people who could build CDs, or whatever. That way he doesn't have to do all the work, and can focuss on maintaing Speakup/etc. Maybe an #Arch-Accessibility channel should be created with an associated mailing list. Your thoughts? I welcome anyone including Chris and anyone else who feels that Accessibility is important to comment on this. I will CC this to Arch-General as well so that the community in general can be made aware of this. Also, I wanted to ask why weekly builds couldn't be done? I'm talking about autobuilds, btw, taht use your isoscripts. I have seen other distros that offer accessibilty I.e. GRML, etc, wich have automatic CDs. Gentoo now has minimal stage3 tarballs, and automated snapshots, etc.

Just curious why Arch hasn't done somethinglike this.

lack of time

...

Thanks so much all, happy arching, and have fun! :) P.s. My favorite feature of the LiveCD (I've only used Chrisses bc I can't use the others) is that you folks don't start anything we don't want. This might also be a nice way to have chrisses work ported to AMD64, not just I386. Maybe someone has an 64-bit box to test chrisses CDs on? :)

Regards, --Keith

Dieter

Aaron Griffin

9:54 p.m.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Keith Hinton wrote:

...

Hi, As one of Chris Branon's friends, and as one who has submitted valuable feedback, I'd like to see Chrisses CD get more support from the Arch team leads, etc. I also have another suggestion. Why couldn't core snapshots be automatically generated, and Chrisses CD/and the other official images could be all updated? As newer kernels came out, we could even get weekly/monthly netiso images automatically wich each core update, so that we'd never have to worry about waiting for 2 3 4 months or whatever. :) Just a suggestion, only. I don't expect that this could be automated. I'm just suggesting something, nothing more. But the fact that this CD of chirsses is unofficial isn't great. He does a wonderful job. I'd like to see him get more people who could build CDs, or whatever. That way he doesn't have to do all the work, and can focuss on maintaing Speakup/etc. Maybe an #Arch-Accessibility channel should be created with an associated mailing list. Your thoughts? I welcome anyone including Chris and anyone else who feels that Accessibility is important to comment on this. I will CC this to Arch-General as well so that the community in general can be made aware of this. Also, I wanted to ask why weekly builds couldn't be done? I'm talking about autobuilds, btw, taht use your isoscripts. I have seen other distros that offer accessibilty I.e. GRML, etc, wich have automatic CDs. Gentoo now has minimal stage3 tarballs, and automated snapshots, etc.

Just curious why Arch hasn't done somethinglike this. Thanks so much all, happy arching, and have fun! :) P.s. My favorite feature of the LiveCD (I've only used Chrisses bc I can't use the others) is that you folks don't start anything we don't want. This might also be a nice way to have chrisses work ported to AMD64, not just I386. Maybe someone has an 64-bit box to test chrisses CDs on? :)

Seconding what Dieter said here - this is more-or-less the first I've heard of this. When we originally started discussing the release engineering stuff, Chris and I discussed this topic a bit, but our communication seemed to drop off. Is there some place that this is being discussed that I am unaware of? So let me answer the question: It hasn't been included / integrated due to communication issues. We're simply unaware of any of this work, as no one has told us about it.

Roman Kyrylych

10:01 p.m.

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 20:54, Aaron Griffin wrote:

...

On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Keith Hinton wrote:

...
Hi, As one of Chris Branon's friends, and as one who has submitted valuable feedback, I'd like to see Chrisses CD get more support from the Arch team leads, etc. I also have another suggestion. Why couldn't core snapshots be automatically generated, and Chrisses CD/and the other official images could be all updated? As newer kernels came out, we could even get weekly/monthly netiso images automatically wich each core update, so that we'd never have to worry about waiting for 2 3 4 months or whatever. :) Just a suggestion, only. I don't expect that this could be automated. I'm just suggesting something, nothing more. But the fact that this CD of chirsses is unofficial isn't great. He does a wonderful job. I'd like to see him get more people who could build CDs, or whatever. That way he doesn't have to do all the work, and can focuss on maintaing Speakup/etc. Maybe an #Arch-Accessibility channel should be created with an associated mailing list. Your thoughts? I welcome anyone including Chris and anyone else who feels that Accessibility is important to comment on this. I will CC this to Arch-General as well so that the community in general can be made aware of this. Also, I wanted to ask why weekly builds couldn't be done? I'm talking about autobuilds, btw, taht use your isoscripts. I have seen other distros that offer accessibilty I.e. GRML, etc, wich have automatic CDs. Gentoo now has minimal stage3 tarballs, and automated snapshots, etc.

Just curious why Arch hasn't done somethinglike this. Thanks so much all, happy arching, and have fun! :) P.s. My favorite feature of the LiveCD (I've only used Chrisses bc I can't use the others) is that you folks don't start anything we don't want. This might also be a nice way to have chrisses work ported to AMD64, not just I386. Maybe someone has an 64-bit box to test chrisses CDs on? :)

Seconding what Dieter said here - this is more-or-less the first I've heard of this. When we originally started discussing the release engineering stuff, Chris and I discussed this topic a bit, but our communication seemed to drop off.

Is there some place that this is being discussed that I am unaware of?

So let me answer the question: It hasn't been included / integrated due to communication issues. We're simply unaware of any of this work, as no one has told us about it.

I think it was just missed: http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2008-December/002955.htm... http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux_for_the_blind -- Roman Kyrylych (Роман Кирилич)

Chris Brannon

10:07 p.m.

Aaron Griffin wrote:

...

Seconding what Dieter said here - this is more-or-less the first I've heard of this. When we originally started discussing the release engineering stuff, Chris and I discussed this topic a bit, but our communication seemed to drop off.

Sorry about that. I disappeared for a while around that time (due to a death in the family). Anyway, I've continued producing unofficial snapshots of the netinstall ISO since then. Here is the wiki page that I use for documentation: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux_for_the_blind -- Chris

Dieter Plaetinck

11:03 p.m.

New subject: [arch-releng] Assisting Chriss or adopting his CD as a separait project for Arch blind Users

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:07:16 -0500 Chris Brannon wrote:

...

Aaron Griffin wrote:

...
Seconding what Dieter said here - this is more-or-less the first I've heard of this. When we originally started discussing the release engineering stuff, Chris and I discussed this topic a bit, but our communication seemed to drop off.

Sorry about that. I disappeared for a while around that time (due to a death in the family). Anyway, I've continued producing unofficial snapshots of the netinstall ISO since then. Here is the wiki page that I use for documentation: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux_for_the_blind

-- Chris

Aha, since you have an archiso clone, that simplifies things for us. I'm not sure whether this "should" ultimately become an official project or not. I mean, there are plenty of Arch-based projects (unofficial ones) out there and I think that's great. If we make this an official project, this means we need to support it, which should not be taken lightly. I do notice, when checking out your branch, and diffing it with the current master, the diff is quite big. Not just your custom config/script/package lists but also sudoers, shadow files, pacman config, motd, locale.gen, a copy of the gpl, splash.rle whatever that is (big binary file) and so on. is it possible to merge in the latest archiso code and make sure the diff is not bigger then needed? so we can clearly see the diff. Dieter

Chris Brannon

11:38 p.m.

Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

...

Aha, since you have an archiso clone, that simplifies things for us.

I'm tempted to put it on github, because that will be much more permanent than my ISP's web server.

...

I'm not sure whether this "should" ultimately become an official project

Right, I'm with you here! There aren't that many blind Archers. I can count them on my fingers. I'm happy to keep on cranking out unofficial talking Arch images. Granted, I'd also like to be able to build for x86-64, but I don't have one of those yet.

...

I do notice, when checking out your branch, and diffing it with the current master, the diff is quite big.

You see such a big diff because I do my work in the talking-inst subdirectory. I'll attach something a little more managable. Regards, -- Chris

Dieter Plaetinck

11:42 p.m.

New subject: [arch-releng] Assisting Chriss or adopting his CD as a separait project for Arch blind Users

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:38:49 -0500 Chris Brannon wrote:

...

...
I'm not sure whether this "should" ultimately become an official project

Right, I'm with you here! There aren't that many blind Archers. I can count them on my fingers. I'm happy to keep on cranking out unofficial talking Arch images.

Granted, I'd also like to be able to build for x86-64, but I don't have one of those yet.

wait.. what problem are we trying to solve? Dieter

Chris Brannon

11:50 p.m.

Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

...

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:38:49 -0500 Chris Brannon wrote:

...
Right, I'm with you here! There aren't that many blind Archers. I can count them on my fingers. I'm happy to keep on cranking out unofficial talking Arch images.

Granted, I'd also like to be able to build for x86-64, but I don't have one of those yet.

wait.. what problem are we trying to solve?

Dieter, Perhaps no problem at all. One of the people who uses my ISO apparently wants the Arch release team to take it over. I'm cool, either way, because I see plenty of reasons for keeping it unofficial. -- Chris

Aaron Griffin

9 Sep 9 Sep

midnight

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Chris Brannon wrote:

...

Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

...
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:38:49 -0500 Chris Brannon wrote:

...
Right, I'm with you here! There aren't that many blind Archers. I can count them on my fingers. I'm happy to keep on cranking out unofficial talking Arch images.

Granted, I'd also like to be able to build for x86-64, but I don't have one of those yet.

wait.. what problem are we trying to solve?

Dieter, Perhaps no problem at all. One of the people who uses my ISO apparently wants the Arch release team to take it over. I'm cool, either way, because I see plenty of reasons for keeping it unofficial.

Hmm regarding the x86_64 stuff, perhaps we could work in some way for you to build this on sigurd the same way the releng guys do. I'm not sure how walled off the archiso group is on that machine, but is there a safe way to do this? Seems like a decent middle ground between official and unofficial, to me.

Chris Brannon

1:21 a.m.

Aaron Griffin wrote:

...

Hmm regarding the x86_64 stuff, perhaps we could work in some way for you to build this on sigurd the same way the releng guys do.

I'm not sure how walled off the archiso group is on that machine, but is there a safe way to do this? Seems like a decent middle ground between official and unofficial, to me.

This would be greatly appreciated, assuming that there is a safe way to do it. -- Chris

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participants (5)

Aaron Griffin
Chris Brannon
Dieter Plaetinck
Keith Hinton
Roman Kyrylych