Hi, I did some new updates to the installation guide (give an example of a disk setup in the interactive thing + document better what we do and don't support) http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/DeveloperWiki:Official_Arch_Linux_Instal... There are some rendering/syntax things which I will still be resolving. The content, however should be good and "stable" now. This means translators can start. notes: - we use markdown format. see http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/ (but look at official_installation_guide_en, the syntax is very simple) - latest versions will always be at http://projects.archlinux.org/?p=aif.git, experimental branch - please try to keep the content < 80chars. only exceptions are when a link is really just longer (markdown doesn't seem to support links over multiple lines) - the files are in the 'doc' folder. - i copied over quite some portions from the old installation guide (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Official_Arch_Linux_Install_Guide) but I did restructure and edit a lot. Especially the explanations for all the items in the "configure system" step are the same. (I just added /etc/pacman.conf and changed /etc/modprobe.conf to /etc/modprobe.d/modprobe.conf) So you should be able to reuse stuff from the old translations. - it would be nice to get some translations in time for the actual release (9 august) but I doesn't matter much. the EN one will be on the discs, and we can always update the wiki after the release. Thanks! Dieter

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:10:37 -0500 Aaron Griffin wrote:

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

...

Hi, I did some new updates to the installation guide (give an example of a disk setup in the interactive thing + document better what we do and don't support)

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/DeveloperWiki:Official_Arch_Linux_Instal...

There are some rendering/syntax things which I will still be resolving.

The content, however should be good and "stable" now. This means translators can start.

notes: - we use markdown format. see http://daringfireball.net/projects/markdown/ (but look at official_installation_guide_en, the syntax is very simple) - latest versions will always be at http://projects.archlinux.org/?p=aif.git, experimental branch - please try to keep the content < 80chars. only exceptions are when a link is really just longer (markdown doesn't seem to support links over multiple lines) - the files are in the 'doc' folder. - i copied over quite some portions from the old installation guide (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Official_Arch_Linux_Install_Guide) but I did restructure and edit a lot.  Especially the explanations for all the items in the "configure system" step are the same.  (I just added /etc/pacman.conf and changed /etc/modprobe.conf to /etc/modprobe.d/modprobe.conf)  So you should be able to reuse stuff from the old translations. - it would be nice to get some translations in time for the actual release (9 august) but I doesn't matter much.  the EN one will be on the discs, and we can always update the wiki after the release.

Out of curiosity, how are you handling translations? Just new files with the locale appended? Or separate dirs? Should the file name be translated? How is it going to look to the user of the ISO? What ends up in /arch ?

docs will have a file for each language. official_installation_guide_{en,it,de,..} so i would keep the file name in english. the entire contents of the docs folder will be available in /usr/share/aif/docs, which /arch/docs is a symlink to on the images. Dieter

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 23:05:25 +0200 Pierre Schmitz wrote:

Am Mittwoch 05 August 2009 22:07:27 schrieb Dieter Plaetinck:

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This means translators can start.

I doubt that this will be done in four days. The guide is quite verbose. ;-) If we really want translated guides we have to organize defferently.

I rewrote the entire guide on 1 day :P But like I said, it's not a problem if the translations arrive later. They don't need to be on the images, we can update the wiki when they arrive.

But I think its enough to ask for updating the guides in that already exist in the local communite's wikis.

E.G. we have http://wiki.archlinux.de/title/Arch_Linux_installieren which is shorter (mainly because we link to other pages instead of having everything on one page).

Well afaik we try to keep a decent, officially maintained page, something we're sure nobody can mess with and something we can keep up to date. So leaving importent content "in the wild" isn't much of an option. someone correct me if i'm wrong please :) Dieter

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:23:21 -0500 Aaron Griffin wrote:

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

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Well afaik we try to keep a decent, officially maintained page, something we're sure nobody can mess with and something we can keep up to date. So leaving importent content "in the wild" isn't much of an option. someone correct me if i'm wrong please :)

It's an odd topic... but mostly I agree. Supplementary docs that are "in the wild" are fine, but if we're talking "official documentation" then it needs some sort of gatekeeper who says what is good and what is not

remarkably, translations of the official guides are/will be accepted like they are but we can't really check them, unless me/Aaron/Gerhard/<insert new volunteers here> knows the language.

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:12:50 +0200 Gerhard Brauer wrote:

Am Donnerstag, den 06.08.2009, 09:22 +0200 schrieb Dieter Plaetinck:

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On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:23:21 -0500 Aaron Griffin wrote:

...

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

...

Well afaik we try to keep a decent, officially maintained page, something we're sure nobody can mess with and something we can keep up to date. So leaving importent content "in the wild" isn't much of an option. someone correct me if i'm wrong please :)

It's an odd topic... but mostly I agree. Supplementary docs that are "in the wild" are fine, but if we're talking "official documentation" then it needs some sort of gatekeeper who says what is good and what is not

remarkably, translations of the official guides are/will be accepted like they are but we can't really check them, unless me/Aaron/Gerhard/<insert new volunteers here> knows the language.

I'm for maintaining **only** the English version from install guide as the official version. We could not look on each translated version if they really follow word-by-word the English version or so...

Also a "responsibility" for errors we should have only for the English version. I'm also for: we put only the English version on the install images. If sone need a translated version he should obtain it from wiki or country related Arch-Site (ex. archlinux.de etc.)

Gerhard

That sounds like a good idea to me. Just like the current official guide has an i18n section at the top that points to translated versions, we could add a similar section that points to unofficial translated versions. People who put online translated versions on sites such as al.de or the wiki on al.org then just have to ping me and ask to add a link. And we have to tell people if they translate, they should "translate" 'official guide' into 'community guide' or something ;) Aaron? Dieter

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:13:12 -0500 Aaron Griffin wrote:

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

...

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:12:50 +0200 Gerhard Brauer wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag, den 06.08.2009, 09:22 +0200 schrieb Dieter Plaetinck:

...

On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:23:21 -0500 Aaron Griffin wrote:

...

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:20 PM, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

...

Well afaik we try to keep a decent, officially maintained page, something we're sure nobody can mess with and something we can keep up to date. So leaving importent content "in the wild" isn't much of an option. someone correct me if i'm wrong please :)

It's an odd topic... but mostly I agree. Supplementary docs that are "in the wild" are fine, but if we're talking "official documentation" then it needs some sort of gatekeeper who says what is good and what is not

remarkably, translations of the official guides are/will be accepted like they are but we can't really check them, unless me/Aaron/Gerhard/<insert new volunteers here> knows the language.

I'm for maintaining **only** the English version from install guide as the official version. We could not look on each translated version if they really follow word-by-word the English version or so...

Also a "responsibility" for errors we should have only for the English version. I'm also for: we put only the English version on the install images. If sone need a translated version he should obtain it from wiki or country related Arch-Site (ex. archlinux.de etc.)

Gerhard

That sounds like a good idea to me. Just like the current official guide has an i18n section at the top that points to translated versions, we could add a similar section that points to unofficial translated versions.  People who put online translated versions on sites such as al.de or the wiki on al.org then just have to ping me and ask to add a link. And we have to tell people if they translate, they should "translate" 'official guide' into 'community guide' or something ;)

Aaron?

Hmmm I like the idea of having translated guides on the install disk. I mean, what happens if someone cant get on the network but still wants to install with the core CD. They wouldn't be able to read the installation guide

They would still have the english one? Another take: Maybe we could also include output of lynx -dump or whatever from some non-official guides in aif git (docs folder), or hell, maybe with wget or something we can download the entire wiki and put all text files from it on the install cd (in a separate package. arch-wiki or something) either way, I think the "documentation on cd" concept (and it's advantages) go way beyond releng and we should imho have a documentation package with various usefull guides. see also http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/9902 and in a lesser degree http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13140 (this can maybe be closed by now) Dieter

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

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Looks good. Yay!

- html links are not interpreted by the wiki software. :( i'll guess I'll need to come up with a sed replacing thingie

Is this a setting? I always thought mediawiki was fine with a tags inside html sections...

- Sections 'article summary', 'available languages' and 'related articles' are not separate from the content like the original (..yet)

Am Montag 03 August 2009 22:36:14 schrieb Aaron Griffin:

Anyway, this may work: echo '<a href="http://archlinux.org" title="arch linux dot org">Something</a>' \ | sed 's|]*>\([^<]*\)</a>|[\1 \2]|g'

Not sure what to do with the title="" though...

That's what I also made up. Just ignroe the title tag; its quite useless for links anyway. -- Pierre Schmitz, http://users.archlinux.de/~pierre