Hello,
as discussed we build a new set of ISOs/USB-Images with the state of a ReleaseCandidate. http://dev.archlinux.org/~aaron/archiso/
Roadmap: http://bugs.archlinux.org/roadmap/proj6
Bugs fixed in 2009.02-RC1: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12896 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12949 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13068 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13070
Please test them (esp. for the open bug-reports above). Test phase should go over this weekend, so that we probably could make the final release (sic!) during next week.
Known issues: low -> grub entry "Release Notes" present a empty To-Do list
Regards Gerhard
PS; Upload of most ISO and IMG files are already finished, the missing core-* files will be there in 1,2 hours. (@Aaron: could you provide an updated sha1sums file when finished?)
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
as discussed we build a new set of ISOs/USB-Images with the state of a ReleaseCandidate. http://dev.archlinux.org/~aaron/archiso/
Roadmap: http://bugs.archlinux.org/roadmap/proj6
Bugs fixed in 2009.02-RC1: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12896 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12949 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13068 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13070
Please test them (esp. for the open bug-reports above). Test phase should go over this weekend, so that we probably could make the final release (sic!) during next week.
Known issues: low -> grub entry "Release Notes" present a empty To-Do list
Regards Gerhard
PS; Upload of most ISO and IMG files are already finished, the missing core-* files will be there in 1,2 hours. (@Aaron: could you provide an updated sha1sums file when finished?)
Yep. Right now I have them all except the core-x86_64 iso, when I get that one, I'll generate the sha1sums and remove the old files
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Aaron Griffin aaronmgriffin@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
as discussed we build a new set of ISOs/USB-Images with the state of a ReleaseCandidate. http://dev.archlinux.org/~aaron/archiso/
Roadmap: http://bugs.archlinux.org/roadmap/proj6
Bugs fixed in 2009.02-RC1: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12896 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12949 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13068 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13070
Please test them (esp. for the open bug-reports above). Test phase should go over this weekend, so that we probably could make the final release (sic!) during next week.
Known issues: low -> grub entry "Release Notes" present a empty To-Do list
Regards Gerhard
PS; Upload of most ISO and IMG files are already finished, the missing core-* files will be there in 1,2 hours. (@Aaron: could you provide an updated sha1sums file when finished?)
Yep. Right now I have them all except the core-x86_64 iso, when I get that one, I'll generate the sha1sums and remove the old files
And we're go for launch. All images are there and SHA1SUMs are generated.
Enjoy.
Gerhard Brauer wrote:
Hello,
as discussed we build a new set of ISOs/USB-Images with the state of a ReleaseCandidate. http://dev.archlinux.org/~aaron/archiso/
Roadmap: http://bugs.archlinux.org/roadmap/proj6
Bugs fixed in 2009.02-RC1: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12896 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12949 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13068 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13070
Please test them (esp. for the open bug-reports above). Test phase should go over this weekend, so that we probably could make the final release (sic!) during next week.
Known issues: low -> grub entry "Release Notes" present a empty To-Do list
Regards Gerhard
PS; Upload of most ISO and IMG files are already finished, the missing core-* files will be there in 1,2 hours. (@Aaron: could you provide an updated sha1sums file when finished?)
Hi,
Tested here!, and looks OK to me.
archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-i686.iso archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-x86_64.iso
on VirtualBox 2.1.2 with EXT4
One note, i know that not acepting more patches to archlinux-installer other than showstoppers bugs, but... can include these two one-line-fix?
In order of relevance:
1) http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13102 2) http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13101
Thanks,
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 23:41:27 -0200 Gerardo Exequiel Pozzi vmlinuz386@yahoo.com.ar wrote:
Tested here!, and looks OK to me.
archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-i686.iso archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-x86_64.iso
on VirtualBox 2.1.2 with EXT4
One note, i know that not acepting more patches to archlinux-installer other than showstoppers bugs, but... can include these two one-line-fix?
In order of relevance:
Thanks,
2 nice catches. I will gladly give your patches a good look and some testruns for the next release.
Dieter
Dieter Plaetinck wrote:
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 23:41:27 -0200 Gerardo Exequiel Pozzi vmlinuz386@yahoo.com.ar wrote:
Tested here!, and looks OK to me.
archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-i686.iso archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-x86_64.iso
on VirtualBox 2.1.2 with EXT4
One note, i know that not acepting more patches to archlinux-installer other than showstoppers bugs, but... can include these two one-line-fix?
In order of relevance:
Thanks,
2 nice catches. I will gladly give your patches a good look and some testruns for the next release.
Dieter
Hi Thanks for include it.
And thanks Dieter, for the tip of the bash syntax ${VAR/pattern/string} ;)
I tested the i686 and x86_64 ftp img's. No show stoppers.
Only minor (able to fix before next CD) bug I found that has not yet been discussed was http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13038
Great work, RE team!
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Ranguvar ranguvar@archlinux.us wrote:
I tested the i686 and x86_64 ftp img's. No show stoppers.
Aye, I did a real install using archlinux-2009.02-RC1-ftp-i686.img and everything went absolutely fine. I also used a single ext4 partition for everything.
Great job everyone!
Oh, wait, one thing :p
e2fsprogs 1.14.4 was released a while ago with some fixes, including a bugfix for resizing ext4 partitions. It's not in Arch's repos yet (it is flagged out-of-date) but IMO it should be soon, so it can go on the CD.
http://e2fsprogs.sourceforge.net/e2fsprogs-release.html#1.41.4
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:16 PM, Ranguvar ranguvar@archlinux.us wrote:
I tested the i686 and x86_64 ftp img's. No show stoppers.
Only minor (able to fix before next CD) bug I found that has not yet been discussed was http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13038
Great work, RE team!
It would be very much worth waiting for this new version for e2fsprogs, as it is used in creating and modifying filesystems during install.
Jeroen Maris
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Ranguvar ranguvar@archlinux.us wrote:
Oh, wait, one thing :p
e2fsprogs 1.14.4 was released a while ago with some fixes, including a bugfix for resizing ext4 partitions. It's not in Arch's repos yet (it is flagged out-of-date) but IMO it should be soon, so it can go on the CD.
http://e2fsprogs.sourceforge.net/e2fsprogs-release.html#1.41.4
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:16 PM, Ranguvar ranguvar@archlinux.us wrote:
I tested the i686 and x86_64 ftp img's. No show stoppers.
Only minor (able to fix before next CD) bug I found that has not yet been discussed was http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13038
Great work, RE team!
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 09:12:15PM +0100, Gerhard Brauer wrote:
Hello,
as discussed we build a new set of ISOs/USB-Images with the state of a ReleaseCandidate. http://dev.archlinux.org/~aaron/archiso/
Roadmap: http://bugs.archlinux.org/roadmap/proj6
Bugs fixed in 2009.02-RC1: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12896 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12949 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13068 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13070
Please test them (esp. for the open bug-reports above). Test phase should go over this weekend, so that we probably could make the final release (sic!) during next week.
Hmm looks like the included beginner's guide needs updating. I wouldn't recommend including a guide that recommends installing yaourt in an official iso.
Why not? It's not like yaourt is frowned upon. It's an extremely useful utility.
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Loui Chang louipc.ist@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 09:12:15PM +0100, Gerhard Brauer wrote:
Hello,
as discussed we build a new set of ISOs/USB-Images with the state of a ReleaseCandidate. http://dev.archlinux.org/~aaron/archiso/http://dev.archlinux.org/%7Eaaron/archiso/
Roadmap: http://bugs.archlinux.org/roadmap/proj6
Bugs fixed in 2009.02-RC1: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12896 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12949 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13068 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13070
Please test them (esp. for the open bug-reports above). Test phase should go over this weekend, so that we probably could make the final release (sic!) during next week.
Hmm looks like the included beginner's guide needs updating. I wouldn't recommend including a guide that recommends installing yaourt in an official iso.
On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 11:33:55PM -0500, Vertimyst wrote:
Why not? It's not like yaourt is frowned upon. It's an extremely useful utility.
Because it's not in any way officially supported. Whether you frown upon it or not depends on who you ask.
On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 11:44:19PM -0500, Loui Chang wrote:
On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 11:33:55PM -0500, Vertimyst wrote:
Why not? It's not like yaourt is frowned upon. It's an extremely useful utility.
Because it's not in any way officially supported. Whether you frown upon it or not depends on who you ask.
I agree. Theres two somehow related bug reports
http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/9902 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13046
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Loui Chang louipc.ist@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 11:33:55PM -0500, Vertimyst wrote:
Why not? It's not like yaourt is frowned upon. It's an extremely useful utility.
Because it's not in any way officially supported. Whether you frown upon it or not depends on who you ask.
Agreed.
I've offline for some days, but here are the reports for the RC1 images.
I've performed all of the tests as I did for the beta3 images in the same environments. Also this time I've performed installations in VMware virtual machines too, using SCSI hard drives as well as IDE ones. Both bus logic and LSI logic for the drives, and tried auto prepare too. Everything worked like a charm, I've found no problems; all installations were successful and the machines bootable.
These are the images I've tested and their SHA-1 sums: archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-i686.iso 2D2BD3993FD9990C173CC416F6CDA686EDC8206E archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-x86_64.iso DD605C5B76B28328FD47E8DCF694C324B9144B83 archlinux-2009.02-RC1-ftp-i686.iso 7892E52C9D7BCA528D54B735764C9FC48FFB5F62 archlinux-2009.02-RC1-ftp-i686-isolinux.iso 24728F5213AB4487C501D68EBEE7C6932CE1D2A0 archlinux-2009.02-RC1-ftp-x86_64.iso 80332C9FE41D3504D8939F70DDF13D3A3EFCDF65 archlinux-2009.02-RC1-ftp-x86_64-isolinux.iso C3809624DFEDEB207488877040E763222F23C4D2
Am Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:28:35 -0500 schrieb Loui Chang louipc.ist@gmail.com:
Hmm looks like the included beginner's guide needs updating. I wouldn't recommend including a guide that recommends installing yaourt in an official iso.
It's in the Beginners Guide from the wiki - so discussion pro/contra should IMHO first go on there. (NB: if one uses elinks to read the wiki page he/she get the same information - so it's not a unique problem of the installer+docs)
The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix. This would give enough hints to setup the new system incl. X. After that the new user should have a setup what enables him to user the wiki from a web-browser, so don't need the ASCII version anymore.
My opinion: If this would be the only thing to build a new set of Release mediums (instead simply rename the RC1 files), then i would say: No new build need, lets now stay with the beginnersguide.txt. And do changes for the next ISO.
Gerhard
On Sat, Feb 07, 2009 at 12:02:14PM +0100, Gerhard Brauer wrote:
Am Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:28:35 -0500 schrieb Loui Chang louipc.ist@gmail.com:
Hmm looks like the included beginner's guide needs updating. I wouldn't recommend including a guide that recommends installing yaourt in an official iso.
It's in the Beginners Guide from the wiki - so discussion pro/contra should IMHO first go on there. (NB: if one uses elinks to read the wiki page he/she get the same information - so it's not a unique problem of the installer+docs)
The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix. This would give enough hints to setup the new system incl. X. After that the new user should have a setup what enables him to user the wiki from a web-browser, so don't need the ASCII version anymore.
My opinion: If this would be the only thing to build a new set of Release mediums (instead simply rename the RC1 files), then i would say: No new build need, lets now stay with the beginnersguide.txt. And do changes for the next ISO.
Gerhard
The problem is that the Beginners Guide is not the only document that is inconsistent, at least when it comes to the latest release. So is the Official Guide, and both are included in the ISOs.
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 5:02 AM, Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Am Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:28:35 -0500 schrieb Loui Chang louipc.ist@gmail.com:
Hmm looks like the included beginner's guide needs updating. I wouldn't recommend including a guide that recommends installing yaourt in an official iso.
It's in the Beginners Guide from the wiki - so discussion pro/contra should IMHO first go on there. (NB: if one uses elinks to read the wiki page he/she get the same information - so it's not a unique problem of the installer+docs)
We need to make a distinction between the "OFFICIAL install guide" and the "UNOFFICIAL beginner's guide". That should clear this up. Add a blurb that says that this document is community maintained...
My opinion: If this would be the only thing to build a new set of Release mediums (instead simply rename the RC1 files), then i would say: No new build need, lets now stay with the beginnersguide.txt. And do changes for the next ISO.
We also have two timezone related issues. So the guides plus the timezones... Seems like a valid reason to put out a new RC to me.
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:02:14 +0100 Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix.
I think this would be a workaround, and not a solution for the "real" problem
Imho we should come up with a more regulated and controlled workflow for documentation. There are lots of issues that are even "global" for Arch, outside of the scope of just arch-releng. (eg access control, keeping the documentation official <-> allowing community input, generating packaged documentation, etc)
Dieter
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 07:06:11PM +0100, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:02:14 +0100 Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix.
I think this would be a workaround, and not a solution for the "real" problem
Not really. The Appendix used to be part of that main wiki page, but it was moved. Even the current appendix is a bit more agnostic about installing an 'AUR Helper'. The docs on the ISO just need to be updated to reflect what's currently on the wiki.
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Loui Chang louipc.ist@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 07:06:11PM +0100, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:02:14 +0100 Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix.
I think this would be a workaround, and not a solution for the "real" problem
Not really. The Appendix used to be part of that main wiki page, but it was moved. Even the current appendix is a bit more agnostic about installing an 'AUR Helper'. The docs on the ISO just need to be updated to reflect what's currently on the wiki.
Loui, would you be able to generate a dump of the beginner's guide? Do you think that's a decent solution?
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 01:10:53PM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Loui Chang louipc.ist@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 07:06:11PM +0100, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:02:14 +0100 Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix.
I think this would be a workaround, and not a solution for the "real" problem
Not really. The Appendix used to be part of that main wiki page, but it was moved. Even the current appendix is a bit more agnostic about installing an 'AUR Helper'. The docs on the ISO just need to be updated to reflect what's currently on the wiki.
Loui, would you be able to generate a dump of the beginner's guide? Do you think that's a decent solution?
Yeah that would be a good solution. Would it be OK to include it as html? Elinks is on the iso, so people will still be able to view it.
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Loui Chang louipc.ist@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 01:10:53PM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Loui Chang louipc.ist@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 07:06:11PM +0100, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:02:14 +0100 Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix.
I think this would be a workaround, and not a solution for the "real" problem
Not really. The Appendix used to be part of that main wiki page, but it was moved. Even the current appendix is a bit more agnostic about installing an 'AUR Helper'. The docs on the ISO just need to be updated to reflect what's currently on the wiki.
Loui, would you be able to generate a dump of the beginner's guide? Do you think that's a decent solution?
Yeah that would be a good solution. Would it be OK to include it as html? Elinks is on the iso, so people will still be able to view it.
That sounds good. Just make sure to include wireless in one of the guides as well, as it is always missing on the CD.
Smartboy
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Loui Chang louipc.ist@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 01:10:53PM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Loui Chang louipc.ist@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 07:06:11PM +0100, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:02:14 +0100 Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix.
I think this would be a workaround, and not a solution for the "real" problem
Not really. The Appendix used to be part of that main wiki page, but it was moved. Even the current appendix is a bit more agnostic about installing an 'AUR Helper'. The docs on the ISO just need to be updated to reflect what's currently on the wiki.
Loui, would you be able to generate a dump of the beginner's guide? Do you think that's a decent solution?
Yeah that would be a good solution. Would it be OK to include it as html? Elinks is on the iso, so people will still be able to view it.
Hmm, personally I'd prefer a plain-text dump. links -dump gives really nice output
Am Fri, 6 Feb 2009 19:06:11 +0100 schrieb Dieter Plaetinck dieter@plaetinck.be:
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:02:14 +0100 Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix.
I think this would be a workaround, and not a solution for the "real" problem
I don't want to sell this as a solution... These days i live from "workarounds" cause i want to get 2009.02 out. ASAP. Now. Next few days... ;-))) If we want wait if the documentation and howtos and... are rewritten, then we should be candidly and say: 2009.03 or later...
Dieter
Gerhard
Hello,
i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:
If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!
IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).
*** And release it. **
If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.
Gerhard
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:
If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!
IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).
*** And release it. **If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.
Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?
Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?
Am Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:19:29 -0600 schrieb Aaron Griffin aaronmgriffin@gmail.com:
I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?
+1 !!!
Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?
+1 !!!
Let us the cow do dancing!
Gerhard
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:
If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!
IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).
*** And release it. **If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.
Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?
Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?
With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated.
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:42:48PM +0200, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:
If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!
IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).
*** And release it. **If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.
Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?
Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?
With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated.
Or what Aaron said . The new guide is updated in some parts. Maybe it would be better to include that one. I dont really know. Just if you do make sure to get it from the git repo i posted in BR #13140.
On 02/10/2009 05:54 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:42:48PM +0200, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauergerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:
If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!
IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).
*** And release it. **If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.
Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?
Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?
With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated.
Or what Aaron said . The new guide is updated in some parts. Maybe it would be better to include that one. I dont really know. Just if you do make sure to get it from the git repo i posted in BR #13140.
Hi guys, I think you could include just one part - how to set up network. Everything else is on wiki, so users can look there. I suppose Arch users aren't total beginners and they know how to use elinks.
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 08:28:28PM +0100, cinan6@gmail.com wrote:
On 02/10/2009 05:54 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:42:48PM +0200, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauergerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:
If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!
IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).
*** And release it. **If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.
Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?
Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?
With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated.
Or what Aaron said . The new guide is updated in some parts. Maybe it would be better to include that one. I dont really know. Just if you do make sure to get it from the git repo i posted in BR #13140.
Hi guys, I think you could include just one part - how to set up network. Everything else is on wiki, so users can look there. I suppose Arch users aren't total beginners and they know how to use elinks.
You mean besides the setup network part during FTP/HTTP installation and rc.conf ? Heres how the guide looks now. http://github.com/grbzks/install-guide/raw/074d47eaed7ddb1449476c0d126755486... Suggestions welcome.
On 02/10/2009 08:45 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 08:28:28PM +0100, cinan6@gmail.com wrote:
On 02/10/2009 05:54 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:42:48PM +0200, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauergerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:
If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!
IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).
*** And release it. **If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.
Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?
Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?
With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated.
Or what Aaron said . The new guide is updated in some parts. Maybe it would be better to include that one. I dont really know. Just if you do make sure to get it from the git repo i posted in BR #13140.
Hi guys, I think you could include just one part - how to set up network. Everything else is on wiki, so users can look there. I suppose Arch users aren't total beginners and they know how to use elinks.
You mean besides the setup network part during FTP/HTTP installation and rc.conf ?
Yop. Just this part: 3. Select Source-->3.2 FTP/HTTP -->3.2.1 Setup Network (and 3.2.2 Choose Mirror).
Heres how the guide looks now. http://github.com/grbzks/install-guide/raw/074d47eaed7ddb1449476c0d126755486... Suggestions welcome.
My idea: _First_, set up network. _Then_ print something like that: "For help see ...(page on internet)" and continue in installation. What is so difficult during installation? There's nice ncurses interface. User just chooses options and he doesn't need to type anything if he wants (of course it depends on computer etc...). And everything could be set up after installation. The question is: who uses this distro? If advanced users (= not beginners) then short form guide OK.
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 2:15 PM, cinan6@gmail.com cinan6@gmail.com wrote:
On 02/10/2009 08:45 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 08:28:28PM +0100, cinan6@gmail.com wrote:
On 02/10/2009 05:54 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:42:48PM +0200, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauergerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
> > Hello, > > i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase: > > If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to > release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS > release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now > someone found a "yaourt" in the docu! > > IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build > the > final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them > really) > and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.). > > *** And release it. ** > > If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again. > >
Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?
Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?
With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated.
Or what Aaron said . The new guide is updated in some parts. Maybe it would be better to include that one. I dont really know. Just if you do make sure to get it from the git repo i posted in BR #13140.
Hi guys, I think you could include just one part - how to set up network. Everything else is on wiki, so users can look there. I suppose Arch users aren't total beginners and they know how to use elinks.
You mean besides the setup network part during FTP/HTTP installation and rc.conf ?
Yop. Just this part: 3. Select Source-->3.2 FTP/HTTP -->3.2.1 Setup Network (and 3.2.2 Choose Mirror).
Heres how the guide looks now.
http://github.com/grbzks/install-guide/raw/074d47eaed7ddb1449476c0d126755486... Suggestions welcome.
My idea: _First_, set up network. _Then_ print something like that: "For help see ...(page on internet)" and continue in installation. What is so difficult during installation? There's nice ncurses interface. User just chooses options and he doesn't need to type anything if he wants (of course it depends on computer etc...). And everything could be set up after installation. The question is: who uses this distro? If advanced users (= not beginners) then short form guide OK.
I agree. Even on my first Arch install I didn't use any sort of documentation. I always wondered what sort of people used this install guide.
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 09:15:58PM +0100, cinan6@gmail.com wrote:
On 02/10/2009 08:45 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 08:28:28PM +0100, cinan6@gmail.com wrote:
On 02/10/2009 05:54 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:42:48PM +0200, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauergerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
> Hello, > > i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase: > > If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to > release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS > release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now > someone found a "yaourt" in the docu! > > IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the > final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) > and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.). > > *** And release it. ** > > If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again. > > Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?
Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?
With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated.
Or what Aaron said . The new guide is updated in some parts. Maybe it would be better to include that one. I dont really know. Just if you do make sure to get it from the git repo i posted in BR #13140.
Hi guys, I think you could include just one part - how to set up network. Everything else is on wiki, so users can look there. I suppose Arch users aren't total beginners and they know how to use elinks.
You mean besides the setup network part during FTP/HTTP installation and rc.conf ?
Yop. Just this part: 3. Select Source-->3.2 FTP/HTTP -->3.2.1 Setup Network (and 3.2.2 Choose Mirror).
Heres how the guide looks now. http://github.com/grbzks/install-guide/raw/074d47eaed7ddb1449476c0d126755486... Suggestions welcome.
My idea: _First_, set up network. _Then_ print something like that: "For help see ...(page on internet)" and continue in installation. What is so difficult during installation? There's nice ncurses interface. User just chooses options and he doesn't need to type anything if he wants (of course it depends on computer etc...). And everything could be set up after installation. The question is: who uses this distro? If advanced users (= not beginners) then short form guide OK.
I dont get exactly what you mean TBH, but if you mean that the included documentation should just reference how to set up the network and a link to the wiki i dont think thats needed anymore. I dont know if you tested the latest ISOs but the guide should be prettu much up to date now. It may not cover all exotic installation scenarios, but in those cases you should know what you are doing anyway. And the mkinitcpio documentation which is the most important part, people may be ynfamiliar with is just the same as the original guide.
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis grbzks@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 09:15:58PM +0100, cinan6@gmail.com wrote:
On 02/10/2009 08:45 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 08:28:28PM +0100, cinan6@gmail.com wrote:
On 02/10/2009 05:54 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:42:48PM +0200, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauergerbra@archlinux.de wrote: > > >> Hello, >> >> i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase: >> >> If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to >> release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS >> release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now >> someone found a "yaourt" in the docu! >> >> IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the >> final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) >> and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.). >> >> *** And release it. ** >> >> If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again. >> >> > Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the > release notes that documentation has been removed because it is > severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with > dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they > need offline docs - does this sound good? > > Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the > beginners guide, will that put us in a better state? > > With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated.
Or what Aaron said . The new guide is updated in some parts. Maybe it would be better to include that one. I dont really know. Just if you do make sure to get it from the git repo i posted in BR #13140.
Hi guys, I think you could include just one part - how to set up network. Everything else is on wiki, so users can look there. I suppose Arch users aren't total beginners and they know how to use elinks.
You mean besides the setup network part during FTP/HTTP installation and rc.conf ?
Yop. Just this part: 3. Select Source-->3.2 FTP/HTTP -->3.2.1 Setup Network (and 3.2.2 Choose Mirror).
Heres how the guide looks now. http://github.com/grbzks/install-guide/raw/074d47eaed7ddb1449476c0d126755486... Suggestions welcome.
My idea: _First_, set up network. _Then_ print something like that: "For help see ...(page on internet)" and continue in installation. What is so difficult during installation? There's nice ncurses interface. User just chooses options and he doesn't need to type anything if he wants (of course it depends on computer etc...). And everything could be set up after installation. The question is: who uses this distro? If advanced users (= not beginners) then short form guide OK.
I dont get exactly what you mean TBH, but if you mean that the included documentation should just reference how to set up the network and a link to the wiki i dont think thats needed anymore. I dont know if you tested the latest ISOs but the guide should be prettu much up to date now. It may not cover all exotic installation scenarios, but in those cases you should know what you are doing anyway. And the mkinitcpio documentation which is the most important part, people may be ynfamiliar with is just the same as the original guide.
If you mean that there shouldnt be any guide, mentioning anything besides how to setup a network, and links to the wiki, i agree to some extend. The configuration files are exellently documented anyway. FTR i had never read any of those guides either when installing. The first time i had read all the wiki before installing, but it was much smaller then.
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:
If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!
IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).
*** And release it. **If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.
Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?
Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?
I updated the guide after performing an FTP installation to the best that i could. Feel free to include it in the ISO. I suggest leaving the beginners gyide there too. I added a reference to it, plus the beg. guide is only outdated when it comes to install steps which should be covered in the install guide.
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:
If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!
IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).
*** And release it. **If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.
Gerhard
If this happens, looks like I will have to remaster the ISO to put docs back in for myself, since I don't like to waste paper to install Arch, and don't usually have another computer beside me. The documentation being on the CD was a big bonus for me, since I didn't have to go online to get it when I was installing. I know of a few people for which it helped as well, as they too didn't want to print out all 30(?) pages from the wiki.
Smartboy
On Tuesday 10 February 2009 18:54:33 Smartboy wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer
gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final
release phase:
If the current state of the documentation is the real
problem not to
release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from
THIS
release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06
and now
someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!
IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's
build the
final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need
them really)
and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).
*** And release it. **If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten
again.
Gerhard
If this happens, looks like I will have to remaster the ISO to put docs back in for myself, since I don't like to waste paper to
install
Arch, and don't usually have another computer beside me.
The
documentation being on the CD was a big bonus for me,
since I didn't
have to go online to get it when I was installing. I know of a
few
people for which it helped as well, as they too didn't want to
out all 30(?) pages from the wiki.
Smartboy
+1
I think there should well be a little guide on the iso. At least the part which describes the steps until you get connected to the internet
Stephan
I agree.
I do have access to the wiki via other computers during install, but they're not my computers, so I don't always have guaranteed access, and as has been said, printing that many pages whenever I need updated documentation for the install can be rather tedious.
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Stephan Platz < stephan.platz@googlemail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday 10 February 2009 18:54:33 Smartboy wrote:
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer
gerbra@archlinux.de wrote:
Hello,
i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final
release phase:
If the current state of the documentation is the real
problem not to
release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from
THIS
release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06
and now
someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!
IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's
build the
final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need
them really)
and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).
*** And release it. **If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten
again.
Gerhard
If this happens, looks like I will have to remaster the ISO to put docs back in for myself, since I don't like to waste paper to
install
Arch, and don't usually have another computer beside me.
The
documentation being on the CD was a big bonus for me,
since I didn't
have to go online to get it when I was installing. I know of a
few
people for which it helped as well, as they too didn't want to
out all 30(?) pages from the wiki.
Smartboy
+1
I think there should well be a little guide on the iso. At least the part which describes the steps until you get connected to the internet
Stephan
arch-releng@lists.archlinux.org