Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 23:41:27 -0200 Gerardo Exequiel Pozzi wrote:

...

Tested here!, and looks OK to me.

archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-i686.iso archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-x86_64.iso

on VirtualBox 2.1.2 with EXT4

One note, i know that not acepting more patches to archlinux-installer other than showstoppers bugs, but... can include these two one-line-fix?

In order of relevance:

1) http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13102 2) http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13101

Thanks,

2 nice catches. I will gladly give your patches a good look and some testruns for the next release.

Dieter

Hi Thanks for include it. And thanks Dieter, for the tip of the bash syntax ${VAR/pattern/string} ;) -- Gerardo Exequiel Pozzi ( djgera ) http://www.djgera.com.ar KeyID: 0x1B8C330D Key fingerprint = 0CAA D5D4 CD85 4434 A219 76ED 39AB 221B 1B8C 330D

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Ranguvar wrote:

I tested the i686 and x86_64 ftp img's. No show stoppers.

Aye, I did a real install using archlinux-2009.02-RC1-ftp-i686.img and everything went absolutely fine. I also used a single ext4 partition for everything. Great job everyone!

It would be very much worth waiting for this new version for e2fsprogs, as it is used in creating and modifying filesystems during install. Jeroen Maris On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Ranguvar wrote:

Oh, wait, one thing :p

e2fsprogs 1.14.4 was released a while ago with some fixes, including a bugfix for resizing ext4 partitions. It's not in Arch's repos yet (it is flagged out-of-date) but IMO it should be soon, so it can go on the CD.

http://e2fsprogs.sourceforge.net/e2fsprogs-release.html#1.41.4

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:16 PM, Ranguvar wrote:

...

I tested the i686 and x86_64 ftp img's. No show stoppers.

Only minor (able to fix before next CD) bug I found that has not yet been discussed was http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13038

Great work, RE team!

Why not? It's not like yaourt is frowned upon. It's an extremely useful utility. On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Loui Chang wrote:

On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 09:12:15PM +0100, Gerhard Brauer wrote:

...

Hello,

as discussed we build a new set of ISOs/USB-Images with the state of a ReleaseCandidate. http://dev.archlinux.org/~aaron/archiso/http://dev.archlinux.org/%7Eaaron/archiso/

Roadmap: http://bugs.archlinux.org/roadmap/proj6

Bugs fixed in 2009.02-RC1: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12896 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/12949 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13068 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13070

Please test them (esp. for the open bug-reports above). Test phase should go over this weekend, so that we probably could make the final release (sic!) during next week.

Hmm looks like the included beginner's guide needs updating. I wouldn't recommend including a guide that recommends installing yaourt in an official iso.

On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 11:44:19PM -0500, Loui Chang wrote:

On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 11:33:55PM -0500, Vertimyst wrote:

...

Why not? It's not like yaourt is frowned upon. It's an extremely useful utility.

Because it's not in any way officially supported. Whether you frown upon it or not depends on who you ask.

I agree. Theres two somehow related bug reports http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/9902 http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13046 -- Greg what to do and what not to do in public :o) http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php

I've offline for some days, but here are the reports for the RC1 images. I've performed all of the tests as I did for the beta3 images in the same environments. Also this time I've performed installations in VMware virtual machines too, using SCSI hard drives as well as IDE ones. Both bus logic and LSI logic for the drives, and tried auto prepare too. Everything worked like a charm, I've found no problems; all installations were successful and the machines bootable. These are the images I've tested and their SHA-1 sums: archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-i686.iso 2D2BD3993FD9990C173CC416F6CDA686EDC8206E archlinux-2009.02-RC1-core-x86_64.iso DD605C5B76B28328FD47E8DCF694C324B9144B83 archlinux-2009.02-RC1-ftp-i686.iso 7892E52C9D7BCA528D54B735764C9FC48FFB5F62 archlinux-2009.02-RC1-ftp-i686-isolinux.iso 24728F5213AB4487C501D68EBEE7C6932CE1D2A0 archlinux-2009.02-RC1-ftp-x86_64.iso 80332C9FE41D3504D8939F70DDF13D3A3EFCDF65 archlinux-2009.02-RC1-ftp-x86_64-isolinux.iso C3809624DFEDEB207488877040E763222F23C4D2 -- Alexander

On Sat, Feb 07, 2009 at 12:02:14PM +0100, Gerhard Brauer wrote:

Am Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:28:35 -0500 schrieb Loui Chang :

...

Hmm looks like the included beginner's guide needs updating. I wouldn't recommend including a guide that recommends installing yaourt in an official iso.

It's in the Beginners Guide from the wiki - so discussion pro/contra should IMHO first go on there. (NB: if one uses elinks to read the wiki page he/she get the same information - so it's not a unique problem of the installer+docs)

The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix. This would give enough hints to setup the new system incl. X. After that the new user should have a setup what enables him to user the wiki from a web-browser, so don't need the ASCII version anymore.

My opinion: If this would be the only thing to build a new set of Release mediums (instead simply rename the RC1 files), then i would say: No new build need, lets now stay with the beginnersguide.txt. And do changes for the next ISO.

Gerhard

The problem is that the Beginners Guide is not the only document that is inconsistent, at least when it comes to the latest release. So is the Official Guide, and both are included in the ISOs. -- Greg what to do and what not to do in public :o) http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:02:14 +0100 Gerhard Brauer wrote:

The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix.

I think this would be a workaround, and not a solution for the "real" problem Imho we should come up with a more regulated and controlled workflow for documentation. There are lots of issues that are even "global" for Arch, outside of the scope of just arch-releng. (eg access control, keeping the documentation official <-> allowing community input, generating packaged documentation, etc) Dieter

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Loui Chang wrote:

On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 07:06:11PM +0100, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

...

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:02:14 +0100 Gerhard Brauer wrote:

...

The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix.

I think this would be a workaround, and not a solution for the "real" problem

Not really. The Appendix used to be part of that main wiki page, but it was moved. Even the current appendix is a bit more agnostic about installing an 'AUR Helper'. The docs on the ISO just need to be updated to reflect what's currently on the wiki.

Loui, would you be able to generate a dump of the beginner's guide? Do you think that's a decent solution?

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Loui Chang wrote:

On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 01:10:53PM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:

...

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Loui Chang wrote:

...

On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 07:06:11PM +0100, Dieter Plaetinck wrote:

...

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:02:14 +0100 Gerhard Brauer wrote:

...

The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix.

I think this would be a workaround, and not a solution for the "real" problem

Not really. The Appendix used to be part of that main wiki page, but it was moved. Even the current appendix is a bit more agnostic about installing an 'AUR Helper'. The docs on the ISO just need to be updated to reflect what's currently on the wiki.

Loui, would you be able to generate a dump of the beginner's guide? Do you think that's a decent solution?

Yeah that would be a good solution. Would it be OK to include it as html? Elinks is on the iso, so people will still be able to view it.

That sounds good. Just make sure to include wireless in one of the guides as well, as it is always missing on the CD. Smartboy

Am Fri, 6 Feb 2009 19:06:11 +0100 schrieb Dieter Plaetinck :

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:02:14 +0100 Gerhard Brauer wrote:

...

The installer has a ASCII version of the whole text from wiki. The part with yaourt comes in the APPENDIX section of the wiki page, but the ASCII version parses the whole guide. I would say: We should parse only the main wiki page of BeginnersGuide, without the Appendix.

I think this would be a workaround, and not a solution for the "real" problem

I don't want to sell this as a solution... These days i live from "workarounds" cause i want to get 2009.02 out. ASAP. Now. Next few days... ;-))) If we want wait if the documentation and howtos and... are rewritten, then we should be candidly and say: 2009.03 or later...

Dieter

Gerhard

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer wrote:

Hello,

i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:

If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!

IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).

*** And release it. **

If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.

Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good? Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer wrote:

...

Hello,

i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:

If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!

IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).

*** And release it. **

If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.

Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?

Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?

With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated. -- Greg what to do and what not to do in public :o) http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php

On 02/10/2009 05:54 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:42:48PM +0200, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer wrote:

...

Hello,

i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:

If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!

IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).

*** And release it. **

If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.

Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?

Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?

With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated.

Or what Aaron said . The new guide is updated in some parts. Maybe it would be better to include that one. I dont really know. Just if you do make sure to get it from the git repo i posted in BR #13140.

Hi guys, I think you could include just one part - how to set up network. Everything else is on wiki, so users can look there. I suppose Arch users aren't total beginners and they know how to use elinks.

On 02/10/2009 08:45 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 08:28:28PM +0100, cinan6@gmail.com wrote:

...

On 02/10/2009 05:54 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:42:48PM +0200, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer wrote:

...

Hello,

i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:

If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!

IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).

*** And release it. **

If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.

Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?

Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?

With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated.

Or what Aaron said . The new guide is updated in some parts. Maybe it would be better to include that one. I dont really know. Just if you do make sure to get it from the git repo i posted in BR #13140.

Hi guys, I think you could include just one part - how to set up network. Everything else is on wiki, so users can look there. I suppose Arch users aren't total beginners and they know how to use elinks.

You mean besides the setup network part during FTP/HTTP installation and rc.conf ?

Yop. Just this part: 3. Select Source-->3.2 FTP/HTTP -->3.2.1 Setup Network (and 3.2.2 Choose Mirror).

Heres how the guide looks now. http://github.com/grbzks/install-guide/raw/074d47eaed7ddb1449476c0d126755486... Suggestions welcome.

My idea: _First_, set up network. _Then_ print something like that: "For help see ...(page on internet)" and continue in installation. What is so difficult during installation? There's nice ncurses interface. User just chooses options and he doesn't need to type anything if he wants (of course it depends on computer etc...). And everything could be set up after installation. The question is: who uses this distro? If advanced users (= not beginners) then short form guide OK.

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 09:15:58PM +0100, cinan6@gmail.com wrote:

On 02/10/2009 08:45 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 08:28:28PM +0100, cinan6@gmail.com wrote:

...

On 02/10/2009 05:54 PM, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:42:48PM +0200, Grigorios Bouzakis wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:

...

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer wrote:

> Hello, > > i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase: > > If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to > release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS > release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now > someone found a "yaourt" in the docu! > > IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the > final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) > and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.). > > *** And release it. ** > > If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again. > > Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?

Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?

With or without docs, i dont know whats best. But since the version of the guide im working on is mostly the same but shorter at this point, if its decided to include docs, just include the ones available in the installer.git now, with a note that its outdated.

Or what Aaron said . The new guide is updated in some parts. Maybe it would be better to include that one. I dont really know. Just if you do make sure to get it from the git repo i posted in BR #13140.

Hi guys, I think you could include just one part - how to set up network. Everything else is on wiki, so users can look there. I suppose Arch users aren't total beginners and they know how to use elinks.

You mean besides the setup network part during FTP/HTTP installation and rc.conf ?

Yop. Just this part: 3. Select Source-->3.2 FTP/HTTP -->3.2.1 Setup Network (and 3.2.2 Choose Mirror).

...

Heres how the guide looks now. http://github.com/grbzks/install-guide/raw/074d47eaed7ddb1449476c0d126755486... Suggestions welcome.

My idea: _First_, set up network. _Then_ print something like that: "For help see ...(page on internet)" and continue in installation. What is so difficult during installation? There's nice ncurses interface. User just chooses options and he doesn't need to type anything if he wants (of course it depends on computer etc...). And everything could be set up after installation. The question is: who uses this distro? If advanced users (= not beginners) then short form guide OK.

I dont get exactly what you mean TBH, but if you mean that the included documentation should just reference how to set up the network and a link to the wiki i dont think thats needed anymore. I dont know if you tested the latest ISOs but the guide should be prettu much up to date now. It may not cover all exotic installation scenarios, but in those cases you should know what you are doing anyway. And the mkinitcpio documentation which is the most important part, people may be ynfamiliar with is just the same as the original guide. -- Greg what to do and what not to do in public :o) http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:19:29AM -0600, Aaron Griffin wrote:

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer wrote:

...

Hello,

i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:

If the current state of the documentation is the real problem not to release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!

IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need them really) and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).

*** And release it. **

If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.

Good point, and I agree 100%. I will make sure we add a note to the release notes that documentation has been removed because it is severely outdated. I will point them to the wiki page, updated with dolby's changes, and suggest saving or printing or something if they need offline docs - does this sound good?

Though, if I grabbed dolby's changes right now, and removed the beginners guide, will that put us in a better state?

I updated the guide after performing an FTP installation to the best that i could. Feel free to include it in the ISO. I suggest leaving the beginners gyide there too. I added a reference to it, plus the beg. guide is only outdated when it comes to install steps which should be covered in the install guide. -- Greg what to do and what not to do in public :o) http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Gerhard Brauer wrote:

...

Hello,

i have a proposition on the current RC1 and the final release phase:

If the current state of the documentation is the real

...

release the ISO - hell, let's remove ALL documentation from THIS release. We have not an official ISO release since 2008.06 and now someone found a "yaourt" in the docu!

IMHO: the RC1 is in release state from technical state. Let's build the final without docu (i guess not many people will ever need

...

and fix the last minor things (typo in /etc/issue, etc.).

*** And release it. **

If we switch to aif next release the docu must rewritten again.

Gerhard

If this happens, looks like I will have to remaster the ISO to put docs back in for myself, since I don't like to waste paper to install Arch, and don't usually have another computer beside me. The documentation being on the CD was a big bonus for me, since I didn't have to go online to get it when I was installing. I know of a few people for which it helped as well, as they too didn't want to

On Tuesday 10 February 2009 18:54:33 Smartboy wrote: problem not to them really) print

out all 30(?) pages from the wiki.

Smartboy

+1 I think there should well be a little guide on the iso. At least the part which describes the steps until you get connected to the internet Stephan