Am Fri, 2 Mar 2012 07:45:34 +0800 schrieb Oon-Ee Ng :

Splitting off from the TU application thread that's becoming more of a discussion on the above:-

My (user) perspective - when did being able/not to install packages from a helper (for example yaourt) become a benchmark for deciding how 'correct' a PKGBUILD is?

It's not only the helper, but it's one point. And it was not only the split package but also those two depends arrays in some PKGBUILDs. A correct PKGBUILD should in my opinion respect the official packaging standards. And since AUR doesn't support split packages it's just not officially supported. And why can't a package being built in a way that it can easily installed by those helpers? Heiko

On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:33 AM, Heiko Baums wrote:

Am Fri, 2 Mar 2012 07:45:34 +0800 schrieb Oon-Ee Ng :

...

Splitting off from the TU application thread that's becoming more of a discussion on the above:-

My (user) perspective - when did being able/not to install packages from a helper (for example yaourt) become a benchmark for deciding how 'correct' a PKGBUILD is?

It's not only the helper, but it's one point. And it was not only the split package but also those two depends arrays in some PKGBUILDs.

A correct PKGBUILD should in my opinion respect the official packaging standards. And since AUR doesn't support split packages it's just not officially supported.

As I understand it the reason the AUR doesn't support split packages is more along the lines of "hard to implement" and/or "noone has bothered to add it" rather than "the AUR shall not have split packages". If a workaround allows split packages to work fine without having to rewrite the AUR, that's a GOOD thing to me. Note: 'work' means with makepkg.

And why can't a package being built in a way that it can easily installed by those helpers?

Helpers are only helpers. Nothing wrong with using them, but they're:- a) not official b) not a suitable substitute for knowing how to download a tarball and run makepkg If a user can't do b) AUR helpers do them a dis-service, IMO. Better to learn what's going on behind the scenes. I've used yaourt and bauerbill before, and they DO make things easier, but if we ever reach the point that a large group of users only know how to use the AUR through helpers Arch would be a very different (and worse) place.

Am Fri, 2 Mar 2012 15:23:16 +0800 schrieb Oon-Ee Ng :

As I understand it the reason the AUR doesn't support split packages is more along the lines of "hard to implement" and/or "noone has bothered to add it" rather than "the AUR shall not have split packages".

As long as there's not support for them in AUR for whatever reasons they are not supported by AUR.

If a workaround allows split packages to work fine without having to rewrite the AUR, that's a GOOD thing to me. Note: 'work' means with makepkg.

That does not mean only with makepkg. And even with makepkg there could be several issues. I have tried this workaround before for checking if it's an option for my package linux-fbcondecor, since the package linux has become a split package. But for very good reasons I change that package to a single package. A workaround is not a fix. A workaround can but doesn't need to work. In this case it does not work.

Helpers are only helpers. Nothing wrong with using them, but they're:- a) not official

Split packages in AUR are not official.

b) not a suitable substitute for knowing how to download a tarball and run makepkg

I know how to download tarballs and run makepkg. But I want to easily maintain my system and not to check every package individually. That's what the AUR helpers are for. Otherwise I could switch to Windoze again. In Windoze I have to check on the websites of every single software if there's an update and to download and install it manually.

If a user can't do b) AUR helpers do them a dis-service, IMO. Better to learn what's going on behind the scenes.

And what? I can do b), but if you have 100+ packages installed from AUR then it's not possible anymore to keep your system up-to-date without a helper. And again, split packages are NOT supported by AUR, a workaround is NOT a fix, so it's NOT the helper's fault that they can NOT handle split packges. They just can NOT find the subpackages of a split package on AUR, because AUR does NOT show them, because AUR does NOT support split packages.

I've used yaourt and bauerbill before, and they DO make things easier, but if we ever reach the point that a large group of users only know how to use the AUR through helpers Arch would be a very different (and worse) place.

That's a totally different topic and has nothing to do with this split package issue. That's the reason why the AUR helpers are not officially supported and won't be moved to [community]. Btw., this is the only reason for that. Just that simple. Either build support for split packages into AUR or just don't upload split packages to AUR, not either with such a dirty workaround. And, yes, it is dirty. Heiko