I also forgot to mention this (writing long emails is hard :P ); I'm currently working on a disto called DebianX (Debian as the base and the name was suggested by my co-developers, not myself) and in said distro where we currently only have 20 users (we haven't gotten even an official release out yet or our website up), i am the maintainer of all of GNOME, Firefox/XULRunner, and whatever else i want to maintain. On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Jeff Horelick wrote:

Let's see how i can do this:

@everyone: I was a bit harsh on my original "taking over packages" message and i agree that my original "message" would be the wrong approach. If i did send out a message like this...Well...I'd first refine my "template", but i'd also give probably a 1 month time period for a response. Here's my revised takeover message (for now): "Hello $uploader-name, i noticed that $package that you maintain in the AUR is out-of-date and doesn't work because of $error. Please fix your package or let me know that you're not going to at all so it can be taken over."

I didn't mean to sound overly confrontational. :(

@Allan - The package that failed on me was debootstrap so you're off the hook. :P

@Angel (part1): Sorry, i don't have any documentation that qualifies me as a Debian Developer. I've been inactive for ~3-4 years now and every package i maintained has been taken over.

@Angel (Part 2): I prefer i686, but i do have 3 x86_64 boxes that i can use to build packages if needed (Just have to install Arch on them).

@DaNiMo & @Angel - I'll be honest, Arch just has that feeling that i can't use it as a primary desktop distro and i don't know why, but i'm trying to figure it out (and fix either me or the problem i have with Arch). Until that time though, i do run Arch on almost every box in my house besides my main desktop, my MythTV box and my server.

@DaNiMo - hehe...I completely remember licensing issues and i was actually on the fence about uploading Charybdis because it uses OpenSSL (going to gnutls in their new release) and i remember all the OpenSSL licensing issues from my time with Debian.

@DaNiMo/All - As i mentioned, my goal is 1 package a day. I can't guarantee that i will do 1 a day, every day, but i will try. As for being a TU...The biggest thing is to move packages that i find interesting/useful to community, be able to assist other AUR/Arch users better and be able to maintain packages that are unmaintained, but not orphaned.

I hope this answers all of your questions/comments and i'll be around for a while to answer even more :) Thanks JD

I am working on said distro, but i mostly do maintaining packages and so far this week (not counting the amount of time my machine was building since it's just going without my intervention) i've literally spend less than 3 hours working on my distro. I can almost guarantee i've spent that much time working on Arch between just yesterday and today. I did indeed say i had 3 x86_64 boxes and i have (this morning) verified that my packages build on them, i just have to upload updated pkgbuilds and...I don't know...I feel like i should wait till i have to make another change instead of just reuploading with only the x86_64 addition. As far as what i've maintained when i was a Debian developer: I've maintained msttcorefonts, early versions of conky, gftp and a few other things i don't remember (It was 4 years ago). Also, i did mention in my original post that i'd try to be in #archlinux more. I'm currently doing stuff around the house this early afternoon, but i will be on #archlinux shortly. On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 2:08 PM, Angel Velásquez wrote:

So, you are working in a distro called "DebianX" based of course on Debian (and if it's a personal project you will need time to maintain packages, do documentation etc, get enthusiastic people isn't as fast, then i wonder if you will have time for be a TU on Arch Linux). Also you said that you have 3 (three) x86_64 machines but none (zero) of your packages are tested on x86_64 (i don't know if all of them build but...). Plus don't have any credential that probe that you was a Debian Developer (and you didn't what packages you maintained at least), and you aren't on Archlinux irc channels but:

* [jdhore] (n=jd@unaffiliated/jdhoreotg): JD * [jdhore] #freshubuntu #deluge #lilug #defusion #progbox * [jdhore] irc.freenode.net :http://freenode.net/ * [jdhore] is identified to services * [jdhore] is signed on as account jdhoreotg

-NickServ- Information on jdhore (account jdhoreotg): -NickServ- Registered : Jun 09 03:32:55 2006 (2 years, 7 weeks, 0 days, 14:32:58 ago) -NickServ- Last addr : n=jd@unaffiliated/jdhoreotg -NickServ- Last seen : now -NickServ- Email : jdhore1@gmail.com -NickServ- *** End of Info ***

Good luck anyway, i don't know anything more to say, just good luck.

-- Angel Velásquez angvp @ irc.freenode.net Linux Counter: #359909 Arch Linux Trusted User

That would be a long story involving some "secretive" Debian Drama (between me and 2/3 other people via email/IM) that i'd really rather not pull into the mix. On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Mateusz Herych wrote:

2008/7/27 Jeff Horelick :

...

As far as what i've maintained when i was a Debian developer: I've maintained msttcorefonts, early versions of conky, gftp and a few other things i don't remember (It was 4 years ago).

Hi.

Here are changelogs of msttcorefonts: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/contrib/m/msttcorefonts/msttcoref... ... conky: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/c/conky/conky_1.4.4-1/change... .. and gftp: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/g/gftp/gftp_2.0.18-17/change...

I don't see your name in these changelogs. Can you explain this?

Regards, Mateusz.

I'm sorry, but i'm not going to do that. It was drama, it was a few years ago when i was younger and stupider. It's no longer an issue between myself and the parties involved so as i mentioned, i'm not going to bring it up and i very much hope this will be the last of the issue of if i was a Debian Developer or not. Let's just say i didn't want my name affiliated with Debian anymore when i left and leave it at that. Here's my honest, no BS opinion: There are currently only 27 TU's and 36 developers in this project. I have the skills to be a very capable TU. I more or less don't care if you vote for me to be a TU to be perfectly honest. It's not going to plague me in the morning that i didn't get enough votes. I only feel that i'd bring something useful to a community with currently a lot of ground to cover (~9600 packages in the AUR) and from what i can see, not enough people to cover it. Thanks I hope you all do the right thing FOR THE COMMUNITY. JD On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Allan McRae wrote:

Jeff Horelick wrote:

...

That would be a long story involving some "secretive" Debian Drama (between me and 2/3 other people via email/IM) that i'd really rather not pull into the mix.

But I'm afraid you are going to have to be a bit more specific about you being an ex Debian developer if you want anyone to vote for you. There is also no mention of you in the changelogs of gftp and conky. This experience was a primary factor in my choosing to sponsor you despite having few packages in the AUR. With that being questioned, your whole application is on very, very shaky ground, which is more than a bit embarrassing for me as your sponsor.

Allan

I thought i'd mention this because it's still important. I refuse to provide any proof that i am/was a DD. If you choose not to believe me, fine, if you choose to believe me, great. I will continue to use Arch (possibly go over to it on my main system in the near future), recommend it to friends (i've prolly gotten 10 people hooked on it at least), maintain my own packages on the AUR, contribute on the wiki and continue to contribute in the forums.

Can i cancel my application? I realized i have better things to do with my time than face an inquisition. I'm done with Arch in the way of caring about being a TU or a full-on developer.

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 7:08 AM, Allan McRae wrote:

Jeff Horelick wrote:

...

Can i cancel my application? I realized i have better things to do with my time than face an inquisition. I'm done with Arch in the way of caring about being a TU or a full-on developer.

Done.

This whole event has been very disappointing for me and I think this ending is for the best. But I will continue taking the risk of sponsoring people I peripherally know as all my previous "risks" have paid off nicely. Also, I don't want the barrier of entry here to be too high because no-one will take a risk with a potentially lesser known but still very competent user.

Oh well, you win some, you lose some...

Cheers, Allan

Needless to say I share the opinion of the other TUs, so I won't comment further on that. Don't worry about being the sponsor, it could've been any of us. It is nearly impossible for the sponsor to verify everything by himself all the time as he might be busy with other things. As applications can't put on hold for too long, that's where the rest of the group kicks in. Rest me to say that I'm glad the discussion is over. I got a bit of a sour feeling reading it. Ronald

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 9:26 AM, DaNiMoTh wrote:

2008/7/29 Ronald van Haren : [cut]

...

Don't worry about being the sponsor, it could've been any of us. It is nearly impossible for the sponsor to verify everything by himself all the time as he might be busy with other things. As applications can't put on hold for too long, that's where the rest of the group kicks in.

Sorry, but IMHO this isn't right.

I see your point, and I actually partly share it. What he could've checked was the dev part of his story, and when doing so Allan could have decided not to sponsor him (thinking of it maybe he should have done so). What he could not have verified IMHO was the persons attitude, and I think I can speak of most of us that we do not want somebody with his kind of attitude in our group, no matter what he did in the past (sure he could have a private discussion period but that does not make a lot of sense).

A sponsor needs to verify his candidate. I could share with you my past: 3-4 months of Archlinux security, personal repo with compiz and xgl, with the help ( when I need it for some PKGBUILD ) of voidnull and molok. Then, my application: all TUs know me for my works, and not for my words.

If we starts ( as it is already done ) to sponsor everyone only for increase the number of TUs, we're wrong. Absolutely wrong. And we will see TUs that appear and disappear in one week, many orphaned packages in community, etc.

Last I want is take this kind of people on board. As I've said in the past I like to see lots of PKGBUILDs maintained by an applicant for some time as that's the main point on which we can rate them, and mostly resembles (except the building) the work they would be doing if approved.

Finally, do what you want, I have one vote, I will use it.

Sure you do, you're not allowed to skip too much votes :P Guess my point is more clear now. Ronald

2008/7/29 Angel Velásquez :

I agree with Ronald, but i think that we've said enough, i hope this experience will teach us a lesson, and we worked as a team in that situation and i feel good with this.

Besides, i don't agree with blame Allan, could happened of any of us, the important fact is that we (his team) helped him with this situation, I don't want to blame Allan; My words was for all, and because this I have posted here. This situation could happen to all, you told, and you're right.

and i think that we discuss this in private if you have in mind to still talking about this, we have an irc channel #archlinux-tu and we can finish this subject there, i bet that many people will be talking about this just by reading this thread, and i honestly don't like the idea about that people talking about a thing that doesn't know how it was. Sorry, but we have this mailing list and I want to tell something that remain for future generations; so, without a private mailing list, I will continue to post here if I have something to tell at the TU group. If I need to say something in private ( like if I would want to blame Allan - it isn't the case ) I will use the IRC channel, or the private email.

the fact is that Jeff Horelick won't pass the discussion period, and we won't have a votation period for him, so it's all basicly :-).

+1 ;) I hope this discussion is closed now - Sorry if seems that I have something wrong with Allan, it wasn't my intentions.

2008/7/28 Jeff Horelick :

Can i cancel my application? I realized i have better things to do with my time than face an inquisition. I'm done with Arch in the way of caring about being a TU or a full-on developer.

It wasn't an inquisition. If you talk about your past as Debian Developer, and you're applicating as 'Trusted' User, let us know a bit more about you, just for curiosity. But some of us see that there isn't any trace of you; and then, it is clear, we don't feel good about that. Not because you need to be an ex-GNU/{Debian,Gentoo,Suse,*}/Linux developer to being a TU, but because it isn't respected the word 'Trusted'. And, with these words...

I thought i'd mention this because it's still important. I refuse to provide any proof that i am/was a DD. If you choose not to believe me, fine, if you choose to believe me, great

...I can't trust in you. Sorry. It would be a great thing if you didn't talk about your past :P Nothing of personal, I'm glad to offer to you a beer ( or a dish of cappelletti, as you want ) if you pass in Italy :)

Actually, i don't use it on my desktop, but when my laptop is on (work and i keep it permanently on on my desk at home), i'm on Arch :) On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Loui wrote:

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 02:22:53PM -0400, Jeff Horelick wrote:

...

Also, i did mention in my original post that i'd try to be in #archlinux more. I'm currently doing stuff around the house this early afternoon, but i will be on #archlinux shortly.

I feel a little dumber whenever I hang out in #archlinux for some reason. HA HA. At least you can hang out in some of the other channels like #archlinux-aur or #archlinux-tu when you become a TU. IRC is usually a huge time sucker though, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I guess the fact that you don't use Arch that much compared to other distros is a bit of a concern. If you become a TU then we'll have a better reason to start the brainwashing and make you into a total Arch fiend.

Hooray!