On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Rashif Ray Rahman wrote:

On 17 October 2012 00:55, Allen Li wrote:

...

Hi,

I would like to point out that ibus does Japanese and Korean, whereas fcitx only does simplified Chinese (at least according to the wiki). Thus ibus is one of the only input options for those languages on arch at the moment (barring that other one whose name I'm having trouble recalling at the moment, which I found inferior to ibus), so dropping it is extremely unfavorable I think.

Just my two cents.

Allen Li

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 05:30:30PM +0200, Alexander Rødseth wrote:

...

Hello,

ibus is used for keyboard input for a few major non-English languages.

Several of the ibus packages has been unmaintained for a while now: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?sort=&repo=Community&q=ibus&maintainer=orphan For instance, ibus-sunpinyin, was last updated almost a year ago (2011-10-02).

These ibus-packages have survived at least one package-cleanup, being neither adopted nor moved. While there is interest amongst the trusted users to maintain these, none of the trusted users are currently using ibus.

After visiting #archlinux-cn, a couple of friendly people expressed interest in maintaining the ibus packages, but they had only few packages on AUR to show for. I also learned that mostly, fcitx (currently in [extra], is used instead of ibus). Dropping ibus could have been an option, but I also heard rumors that ibus will be a dependency of gnome-settings-daemon.

There is also a canidate for asking to maintain the ibus packages, that has not yet been contacted, but which already maintains several related packages on AUR: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?K=yangtsesu&SeB=m

If you think that his packages look ok, my plan is to contact yangtsesu and ask if he wants to maintain the ibus packages in [community] (and thus becoming a TU).

If you know of other canidates that have a comparable selection of relevant AUR packages, please let us know who they are.

Please correct me if any of the above is incorrect or let us know if you have additional information.

Sounds like a plan?

-- Cordially, Alexander Rødseth Arch Linux Trusted User (xyproto on IRC, trontonic on AUR)

Also, fcitx looks very CJK-specific to me, whereas ibus is a multilingual input bus (think SCIM). So, not really directly comparable. I'm all for finding someone to maintain the stuff, be it in the repos or AUR.

No, fcitx is also not cjk-specific at all. There is fcitx-keyboard (which is already merged into fcitx itself) that you can use keyboard layout as input method to input all languages that just need a layout switching. It also has spell check/hint(as you can see on the fcitx wiki main page..) which ibus cannot provide. Here[1] is also a list of input method fcitx support now (basically covers all major input method ibus supports). Yes most of them are Chinese input method but that's because Chinese input method is the single most complicated one..... (also true for ibus). Yes the original name of fcitx suggest it is a Chinese input method but it is not anymore now.... And no, I am not talking about dropping ibus packages (taking into account the *stupid* thing gnome3.6 have been doing on input method integration, it might not be a good idea to move those into AUR either..). Just want to clarify that fcitx is not CJK specific (in fact it provides more non-CJK specific features than ibus and scim now, e.g. spell, clipboard, lua, xkb, quickphrase etc...) and want to encourage people to try fcitx for its handful features even for non-CJK ppl. [1] http://fcitx-im.org/wiki/Distribution_Package_Status

-- GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

On 17 October 2012 02:05, Yichao Yu wrote:

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Yichao Yu wrote:

...

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Rashif Ray Rahman wrote:

...

On 17 October 2012 00:55, Allen Li wrote:

...

Hi,

I would like to point out that ibus does Japanese and Korean, whereas fcitx only does simplified Chinese (at least according to the wiki). Thus ibus is one of the only input options for those languages on arch at the moment (barring that other one whose name I'm having trouble recalling at the moment, which I found inferior to ibus), so dropping it is extremely unfavorable I think.

Just my two cents.

Allen Li

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 05:30:30PM +0200, Alexander Rødseth wrote:

...

Hello,

ibus is used for keyboard input for a few major non-English languages.

Several of the ibus packages has been unmaintained for a while now: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?sort=&repo=Community&q=ibus&maintainer=orphan For instance, ibus-sunpinyin, was last updated almost a year ago (2011-10-02).

These ibus-packages have survived at least one package-cleanup, being neither adopted nor moved. While there is interest amongst the trusted users to maintain these, none of the trusted users are currently using ibus.

After visiting #archlinux-cn, a couple of friendly people expressed interest in maintaining the ibus packages, but they had only few packages on AUR to show for. I also learned that mostly, fcitx (currently in [extra], is used instead of ibus). Dropping ibus could have been an option, but I also heard rumors that ibus will be a dependency of gnome-settings-daemon.

There is also a canidate for asking to maintain the ibus packages, that has not yet been contacted, but which already maintains several related packages on AUR: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?K=yangtsesu&SeB=m

If you think that his packages look ok, my plan is to contact yangtsesu and ask if he wants to maintain the ibus packages in [community] (and thus becoming a TU).

If you know of other canidates that have a comparable selection of relevant AUR packages, please let us know who they are.

Please correct me if any of the above is incorrect or let us know if you have additional information.

Sounds like a plan?

-- Cordially, Alexander Rødseth Arch Linux Trusted User (xyproto on IRC, trontonic on AUR)

Also, fcitx looks very CJK-specific to me, whereas ibus is a multilingual input bus (think SCIM). So, not really directly comparable. I'm all for finding someone to maintain the stuff, be it in the repos or AUR.

No, fcitx is also not cjk-specific at all. There is fcitx-keyboard (which is already merged into fcitx itself) that you can use keyboard layout as input method to input all languages that just need a layout switching. It also has spell check/hint(as you can see on the fcitx wiki main page..) which ibus cannot provide. Here[1] is also a list of input method fcitx support now (basically covers all major input method ibus supports). Yes most of them are Chinese input method but that's because Chinese input method is the single most complicated one..... (also true for ibus).

Yes the original name of fcitx suggest it is a Chinese input method but it is not anymore now....

And no, I am not talking about dropping ibus packages (taking into account the *stupid* thing gnome3.6 have been doing on input method integration, it might not be a good idea to move those into AUR either..). Just want to clarify that fcitx is not CJK specific (in fact it provides more non-CJK specific features than ibus and scim now, e.g. spell, clipboard, lua, xkb, quickphrase etc...) and want to encourage people to try fcitx for its handful features even for non-CJK ppl.

[1] http://fcitx-im.org/wiki/Distribution_Package_Status

...

-- GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

Just a little bit more noise about fcitx and ibus packages.

Among those fcitx package in AUR, either fcitx-configtool or kcm-fcitx is already a implicit dependency of fcitx (depending on the DE u r using) since editing the configure file is no longer supported. fcitx-sunpinyin and fcitx-cloudpinyin are also installed by most Chinese fcitx users so it will be really nice to see these package (along with Japanese and Korean ones) in the official repo (which I am sure Felix Yan can be a good maintainer).

For ibus packages, it is also not a good idea to drop any of the existing ibus input methods which is already in the official repo. All of them are required package if you want to use ibus to input in those languages. (Since the upstream of most of the packages is not really active, it shouldn't be hard either.)

Thanks, that makes things clearer. Either way it looks like we do need someone to take care of these things (who should also have an up-to-date knowledge about the stuff like what you have demonstrated). -- GPG/PGP ID: C0711BF1

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Allen Li wrote:

Hi,

I would like to point out that ibus does Japanese and Korean, whereas fcitx only does simplified Chinese (at least according to the wiki).

No, not true. There is fcitx-mozc[1][2], fcitx-anthy[3][4], fcitx-m17n[5][6], fcitx-hangul[7][8] which you can use to input Japanese and Korean. Yes, the arch wiki on this is REALLY out-of-date (especially the english version) [1] http://fcitx-im.org/wiki/Mozc [2] https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=59251 [3] http://fcitx-im.org/wiki/Anthy [4] https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=60146 [5] http://fcitx-im.org/wiki/M17N [6] https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=61028 [7] http://fcitx-im.org/wiki/Hangul [8] https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=59733

Thus ibus is one of the only input options for those languages on arch at the moment (barring that other one whose name I'm having trouble recalling at the moment, which I found inferior to ibus), so dropping it is extremely unfavorable I think.

Just my two cents.

Allen Li

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 05:30:30PM +0200, Alexander Rødseth wrote:

...

Hello,

ibus is used for keyboard input for a few major non-English languages.

Several of the ibus packages has been unmaintained for a while now: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/?sort=&repo=Community&q=ibus&maintainer=orphan For instance, ibus-sunpinyin, was last updated almost a year ago (2011-10-02).

These ibus-packages have survived at least one package-cleanup, being neither adopted nor moved. While there is interest amongst the trusted users to maintain these, none of the trusted users are currently using ibus.

After visiting #archlinux-cn, a couple of friendly people expressed interest in maintaining the ibus packages, but they had only few packages on AUR to show for. I also learned that mostly, fcitx (currently in [extra], is used instead of ibus). Dropping ibus could have been an option, but I also heard rumors that ibus will be a dependency of gnome-settings-daemon.

There is also a canidate for asking to maintain the ibus packages, that has not yet been contacted, but which already maintains several related packages on AUR: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?K=yangtsesu&SeB=m

If you think that his packages look ok, my plan is to contact yangtsesu and ask if he wants to maintain the ibus packages in [community] (and thus becoming a TU).

If you know of other canidates that have a comparable selection of relevant AUR packages, please let us know who they are.

Please correct me if any of the above is incorrect or let us know if you have additional information.

Sounds like a plan?

-- Cordially, Alexander Rødseth Arch Linux Trusted User (xyproto on IRC, trontonic on AUR)

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Masato Hashimoto wrote:

On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 12:55:39 -0400 Allen Li wrote:

<snip>

...

so dropping it is extremely unfavorable I think.

Just my two cents.

Allen Li

+1

AFAIK, ibus is default input method framework of Fedora, Ubuntu and openSUSE.

Not really for openSUSE[1] now. [1] http://en.opensuse.org/Features#Input_Methods

It's most popular in CJK wide.

.... It's popular because it is the default and it is the default because of their names and some historical reasons.

-- HASHIMOTO, Masato

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:45:51 +0200 Alexander Rødseth wrote:

If I understand it correctly, we _could_ drop ibus and just use fcitx instead, but supporting ibus as well is preferrable, since many people also use ibus.

Not only Fcitx:) Arch repo also provides gcin (mainly in Taiwan(?)) and uim (mainly in Japan), (and scim which is almost dead project, imho).

Rumor has it that someone is planning to sponsor a new TU in the near future, where one of the goals is to get someone to maintain ibus. But, this is currently a secret (so sssh).

Sounds good. Thx -- HASHIMOTO, Masato

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Allen Li wrote:

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:45:51 +0200 Alexander Rødseth wrote:

...

If I understand it correctly, we _could_ drop ibus and just use fcitx instead, but supporting ibus as well is preferrable, since many people also use ibus.

My gripe with fcitx is that it is poorly documented (in English at least), and I wasn't able to get it to work. I'm sure people are using it fine, but I feel that the quality of software is limited by its documentation. No documentation = software sucks, end of story. If we move in this direction, I'd like to see someone familiar with fcitx update the wiki accordingly =).

We have just updated the English wiki of fcitx recently. It still lack some detail description of certain engines (e.g. pinyin) but simply install the packages and set environment variables according to the arch wiki should make it works just fine. Would you mind describing your problem (maybe on fcitx@googlegroups.com) so that we can help with it and probably add it to wiki? We are also aware of our poor documentation and is trying to improve that both on our own wiki[1] and on the user interface. THX for the suggestion.

Allen Li

For the gnome3.6 ibus-integration problem Felix Yan mentioned above, the patch to split ibus into ibus and libibus is already tested and can be found here[1]. [1] https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/32071 On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Yichao Yu wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Yichao Yu wrote:

...

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Allen Li wrote:

...

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:45:51 +0200 Alexander Rødseth wrote:

...

If I understand it correctly, we _could_ drop ibus and just use fcitx instead, but supporting ibus as well is preferrable, since many people also use ibus.

My gripe with fcitx is that it is poorly documented (in English at least), and I wasn't able to get it to work. I'm sure people are using it fine, but I feel that the quality of software is limited by its documentation. No documentation = software sucks, end of story. If we move in this direction, I'd like to see someone familiar with fcitx update the wiki accordingly =).

We have just updated the English wiki of fcitx recently. It still lack some detail description of certain engines (e.g. pinyin) but simply install the packages and set environment variables according to the arch wiki should make it works just fine. Would you mind describing your problem (maybe on fcitx@googlegroups.com) so that we can help with it and probably add it to wiki?

We are also aware of our poor documentation and is trying to improve that both on our own wiki[1] and on the user interface.

missing link

[1] fcitx-im.org/wiki/Fcitx

.... sorry

...

THX for the suggestion.

...

Allen Li

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 9:40 AM, Pham Bao Trung wrote:

I have used ibus for Vietnamese input. The only other option is scim, but ibus is far better, so please don't drop ibus. There are at least three components of fcitx supports Vietnamese: fcitx-table-other(AUR), fcitx-unikey(not packaged yet), fcitx-m17n(AUR).

Felix Yan Twitter: @felixonmars Wiki: http://felixc.at

I am using ibus-unikey and have not tried fcitx. On ibus or scim, unikey is better than m17n. Ready to move to fcitx if it is really better and can be used for Vietnamese input. Anyway thanks guys! On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Yichao Yu wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 9:40 PM, Pham Bao Trung wrote:

...

I have used ibus for Vietnamese input. The only other option is scim, but ibus is far better, so please don't drop ibus.

Btw, what's the input method you are using in ibus right now? Don't really think ibus provides more options than fcitx on it right now.

And I think it is already clear we shouldn't drop any of the IMFs we currently have in the official repo (fcitx/ibus/scim... whatever) the real problem is who will become the new TU to maintain ibus packages and also about Felix' tu application (this one may need a new thread). So plz don't worry.

...

Vietnamese fellows, raise your voices :)

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Yichao Yu wrote:

...

For the gnome3.6 ibus-integration problem Felix Yan mentioned above, the patch to split ibus into ibus and libibus is already tested and can be found here[1].

[1] https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/32071

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Yichao Yu wrote:

...

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Yichao Yu wrote:

...

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Allen Li wrote:

...

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 17:45:51 +0200 Alexander Rødseth wrote:

> If I understand it correctly, we _could_ drop ibus and just use

...

...

...

...

...

> instead, but supporting ibus as well is preferrable, since many

fcitx people

...

...

...

...

...

> also use ibus.

My gripe with fcitx is that it is poorly documented (in English at least), and I wasn't able to get it to work. I'm sure people are using it fine, but I feel that the quality of software is limited by its documentation. No documentation = software sucks, end of story. If we move in this direction, I'd like to see someone familiar with fcitx update the wiki accordingly =).

We have just updated the English wiki of fcitx recently. It still lack some detail description of certain engines (e.g. pinyin) but simply install the packages and set environment variables according to the arch wiki should make it works just fine. Would you mind describing your problem (maybe on fcitx@googlegroups.com) so that we can help with it and probably add it to wiki?

We are also aware of our poor documentation and is trying to improve that both on our own wiki[1] and on the user interface.

missing link

[1] fcitx-im.org/wiki/Fcitx

.... sorry

...

THX for the suggestion.

...

Allen Li

-- God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages. ~Jacques Deval

Probability does not exist. ~Bruno de Finetti

Brian: "Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL individuals!" ~Monty Python, "The Life of Brian"

-- God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages. ~Jacques Deval Probability does not exist. ~Bruno de Finetti Brian: "Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't NEED to follow ME, You don't NEED to follow ANYBODY! You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL individuals!" ~Monty Python, "The Life of Brian"