Message: 1 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 10:47:51 -0400 From: Manhong Dai To: aur-general@archlinux.org Subject: Re: [aur-general] aur-general Digest, Vol 192, Issue 4 Message-ID: <2972ceb5928384111909983ea92ddc4f6322b616.camel@umich.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi Alexis,

Thanks a lot for the contructive feedback!

I didn't receive your email actually! I found your reply in the digest.

It might be our UMich.edu Gmail or AUR-general email server right now. But this sge drama was not caused by the email issue. It is caused by that I have an account in AUR, but didn't register the AUR- general, and I didn't even know it exists until a few days ago.

I agree that "It seems that in the last times you didn't take enough care of the sge package". The thing is My PKGBUILD just works without any glitch on dozens of SGE nodes since day one. It includes those C code modification I did in the past decade to make it work with CentOS, Debian and the latest GCC/SSL in current Arch Linux. Further, I don't have much free time to maintain a PKGBUILD file or read the AUR wiki, just like many other AUR package maintainers.

Thanks a lot for the suggestion though, I will host my C code modification with some upcoming accumulated improvement on github, as github won't make me lose the package in a period of just two months ending with two 19-minute apart email notifications.

Here is my suggestions to AUR though.

1, It seems that many PKGBUILD issues can be solved by a script. For example, the PKGVER mistake that the current maintainer of SGE package made and user a821 commented "The pkgver used to be 20200527 but now is 8.1.9. However 20200527 > 8.1.9 so epoch=1 might be required."?https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/sge/

Although I won't believe one who 'couldn't even get something as simple as the pkgver right' cannot make a good AUR package because 'good' is very subjective and definitely not limited to a PKGBUILD file, AUR should have a script running from time to time to check such simple mistakes and notify the maintainer. I actually believe that you already have such thing because some comments on my other AUR packages are very professional and like robot :). Or a command to check some common mistakes in a PKGBUILD file?

2, Force an AUR package maintainer to join AUR-general, or send every notification to the package maintainer, as I never received any email notification about orphaning SGE.

Thanks your very much for your constructive feedback again!

Best, Manhong

On Tue, 2020-10-13 at 12:00 +0000, aur-general-request@archlinux.org wrote:

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Message: 1 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 22:57:52 -0400 From: Manhong Dai To: Doug Newgard Cc: Manhong Dai via aur-general Subject: Re: [aur-general] Reply to your request SGE Message-ID: ????????

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

You are right that I don't know what 'out of state' or 'out of date' or 'out of whatever' is. All I know is that I suddenly lost the ownership and will have to change my cluster maintenance code tomorrow.....

In terms of pkgver or pkgbuild.? Now you said nobody cares about pigver, guess who said this sentence below? 'You couldn't even get something as simple as the pkgver right'

? It turned out I can read and actually remember....

Best, Manhong Sent from phone

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 10:46 PM Doug Newgard wrote:

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On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 22:38:02 -0400 Manhong Dai via aur-general wrote:

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I actually did read your email. You said I cannot get a simple thing such as pkgver right.

Let me explain to you, from your point of view, you certainly want to have some rule or guideline to make all the package? has the same standard. That is understandable and it is what make Arch Linux popular. I would love to be compliant with the rule whenever I have the resource, and I did with all other my AUR packages.

From my point of view, a pkgver is not the point here. I do need to make my modified SGE package can be compiled with the latest SSL, GCC, other Linux contribution, and can be used to upgrade an old node without losing configuration. No matter how bad a pkgver is defined, an Arch Linux with a working SGE is away better, right?

The problem is actually not on my side. Your request system has my email address, I sent you a request after the package was adopted, some bystanders figured? out I didn't get any reply and sent your reply to me, That is when I knew that the request is also in the mail list, and such email list exists......

Because you are attacking my capability, and I believe everybody who can read will know your claim is actually baseless, I did ignore your personal attack in my previous email.

Yes, I can say sorry about ignoring hat.

Best, Manhong Sent from phone

So you read it and you're STILL top posting in violation of the rules. And making up something called "out of state" which doesn't exist. And claiming that you have to be on a mailing list when it's been explained, multiple times, that you don't. You claim you're reading, now try understanding.

Nobody cares what your point of view is on pkgver. It's obvious to pretty much anyone that's ever written, or even read, a PKGBUILD.

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Message: 2 Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 22:02:24 -0500 From: Doug Newgard To: aur-general@archlinux.org Subject: Re: [aur-general] Reply to your request SGE Message-ID: <20201012220224.44a4878b@Scimmia> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 22:57:52 -0400 Manhong Dai via aur-general wrote:

...

You are right that I don't know what 'out of state' or 'out of date' or 'out of whatever' is. All I know is that I suddenly lost the ownership and will have to change my cluster maintenance code tomorrow.....

In terms of pkgver or pkgbuild.? Now you said nobody cares about pigver, guess who said this sentence below? 'You couldn't even get something as simple as the pkgver right'

? It turned out I can read and actually remember....

Then try reading again, as that's not what I said at all. You either have a serious issue with reading comprehension or you're just making things up now.

And you're STILL violating the rules of just about every mailing list out there, even after being told twice.

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Message: 3 Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2020 10:02:08 +0200 From: Alexis BRENON To: "Discussion about the Arch User Repository (AUR)" ???????? Cc: Doug Newgard Subject: Re: [aur-general] Reply to your request SGE Message-ID: ????????

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

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Then try reading again, as that's not what I said at all. You either have a serious issue with reading comprehension or you're just making things up now.

And you're STILL violating the rules of just about every mailing list out there, even after being told twice.

Just to try to calm down the conversation.

Manhong, you say that this is your package, however, AUR is not the right place to host "your own" package, it is a place to host the community's packages. Actually, there is a dedicated maintainer who takes care of a package, and it seems that in the last times you didn't take enough care of the sge package (there is a set of rules to follow that make you a good care-taker: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_package_guidelines), so you aren't the maintainer anymore. This seems fair.

You complain about not being notified before you lost the maintainership. The maintainer always receives e-mail notifications to its personal e-mail address. You are the only one who does not receive it, maybe there is a problem on your side...

In any case, there are some rules. They have been followed. And nobody can give you back the maintainership. You can ask to become a co-maintainer which sounds good, you do not have to bear all the burden alone!

If you want to host "your own" package, following your own rules for the PKGBUILD format, and don't bothering with the community's rules, feel free to host your own AUR service on your cluster.

Kind regards, Alexis

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Message: 2 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 18:58:35 +0400 From: Archange To: "Discussion about the Arch User Repository (AUR)" Cc: Manhong Dai Subject: Re: [aur-general] aur-general Digest, Vol 192, Issue 4 Message-ID: <6eb8705a-b0e0-ce6c-d678-af930082ceb2@archlinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Hi,

Le 14/10/2020 ? 18:47, Manhong Dai via aur-general a ?crit?:

...

2, Force an AUR package maintainer to join AUR-general, or send every notification to the package maintainer, as I never received any email notification about orphaning SGE.

I?m not commenting on everything else here, but regarding this point: subscription to aur-general is not required, and every notifications are sent to the package maintainer? or at least should be, because a bug introduced some months ago broke that (see https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/aurweb/-/merge_requests/6).

So indeed you did not receive the Orphaning requests notifications. But you did receive comments on the AUR page, and you did receive the emails to which you responded and that told you to *stop top-posting*.

Regards, Bruno/Archange

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Message: 3 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 11:16:54 -0400 From: Manhong Dai To: Archange , "Discussion about the Arch User Repository (AUR)" Subject: [aur-general] SGE Message-ID: <259c09da06d5caf05708ae2bb765daf023eaa44b.camel@umich.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi Bruno,

Thanks a lot for confirming that I didn't receive Orphaning email!?

I did receive the comment. I actually checked the pull request a little, but decided not to reply because I didn't want to be negative. I totally believe the current maintainer has a better format of PKGBUILD (well, except his pkgver mistake). Now let me comment a few things on SGE.

In the SGE package comment.

1, The current maintainer blamed me "?pkgver???????????????". Google translation: "It?s really intolerable that even pkgver was filled in wrong."?

Now it turned out that the current maintainer made the mistake.....

2, He also said "??.install?post install??????????????????", Google translation "A lot of files that the package manager did not take over were installed in the post install stage through .install".

This could be a disaster if somebody want to upgrade SGE by uninstall and re-install. SGE has been a very special software because it needs some post installation to let user specify a lot of host/jobs/queue configuration. Thus all files are put under /opt/sge for the legacy reason.

Best, Manhong

On Wed, 2020-10-14 at 18:58 +0400, Archange wrote:

...

Hi,

Le 14/10/2020 ? 18:47, Manhong Dai via aur-general a ?crit?:

...

2, Force an AUR package maintainer to join AUR-general, or send every notification to the package maintainer, as I never received any email notification about orphaning SGE.

I?m not commenting on everything else here, but regarding this point: subscription to aur-general is not required, and every notifications are sent to the package maintainer? or at least should be, because a bug introduced some months ago broke that (see https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/aurweb/-/merge_requests/6).

So indeed you did not receive the Orphaning requests notifications. But you did receive comments on the AUR page, and you did receive the emails to which you responded and that told you to *stop top-posting*.

Regards, Bruno/Archange

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Message: 4 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 13:19:05 -0400 From: Manhong Dai To: Sauyon Lee , "Discussion about the Arch User Repository (AUR)" Subject: Re: [aur-general] SGE Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain

Hi Sauyon,

Thank you! I learned!

Best, Manhong

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Message: 5 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 21:03:26 +0200 From: alad To: aur-general@archlinux.org Subject: Re: [aur-general] SGE Message-ID: <683dd11c-f5f1-f0a6-8f97-acde1c8e82b3@archlinux.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On 14/10/2020 17:16, Manhong Dai via aur-general wrote:

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Hi Bruno,

Top-posting, do you know what it means?

Do not do this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting

But do this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Bottom-posting

Again https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Code_of_conduct#Top_posting

Don't expect anyone to take you seriously if you keep doing this even after being asked not to, repeatedly.

Alad

...

Thanks a lot for confirming that I didn't receive Orphaning email!

I did receive the comment. I actually checked the pull request a little, but decided not to reply because I didn't want to be negative. I totally believe the current maintainer has a better format of PKGBUILD (well, except his pkgver mistake). Now let me comment a few things on SGE.

In the SGE package comment.

1, The current maintainer blamed me "?pkgver???????????????". Google translation: "It?s really intolerable that even pkgver was filled in wrong."

Now it turned out that the current maintainer made the mistake.....

2, He also said "??.install?post install??????????????????", Google translation "A lot of files that the package manager did not take over were installed in the post install stage through .install".

This could be a disaster if somebody want to upgrade SGE by uninstall and re-install. SGE has been a very special software because it needs some post installation to let user specify a lot of host/jobs/queue configuration. Thus all files are put under /opt/sge for the legacy reason.

Best, Manhong

On Wed, 2020-10-14 at 18:58 +0400, Archange wrote:

...

Hi,

Le 14/10/2020 ? 18:47, Manhong Dai via aur-general a ?crit?:

...

2, Force an AUR package maintainer to join AUR-general, or send every notification to the package maintainer, as I never received any email notification about orphaning SGE. I?m not commenting on everything else here, but regarding this point: subscription to aur-general is not required, and every notifications are sent to the package maintainer? or at least should be, because a bug introduced some months ago broke that (see https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/aurweb/-/merge_requests/6).

So indeed you did not receive the Orphaning requests notifications. But you did receive comments on the AUR page, and you did receive the emails to which you responded and that told you to *stop top-posting*.

Regards, Bruno/Archange

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It seems that many PKGBUILD issues can be solved by a script.

This sounds a lot like namcap.