Non English package details
Hi, Is there any rules/policy about packages with non English details in AUR? Recently I came across many packages that have non English descriptions and I can't understand what the packages does or provide, and I got curious about the policy regarding this issue. Cheers, Ramadan Ali (alicavus)
Hey all, This is more of a related question to add on that's related to the one asked by Ramadan. Is there a (good/feasible) way of making the websites more friendly to people who speak no English? I can see options to change the language on the Wiki and the AUR, but of course the AUR doesn't get translations of each package description, and I'm not seeing a language selection on any of the other websites either. According to [0] and [1], less than two billion people speak English. According to [2], we already have more than 8.2 billion people on Earth. Granted, less than 70% of these actually have access to the internet [3], and only 3.93% of those on a desktop/laptop are using some form of Linux[4], but I think it's a question worth asking regardless. Just need to focus on Ramadan's question first, it is an important one. -Adam [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-speaking_world [1]: https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/how-many-people-speak-english-and-where-i... [2]: https://www.worldometers.info [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users [4]: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide This message was signed with my PGP key. If you want to encrypt your messages to me, its corresponding public key is uploaded to the MIT and Ubuntu keyservers. If you have trouble using these, I will provide my public key on request. -------- Original Message -------- From: Ramadan Ali <teachera@gmail.com> Sent: 5 September 2025 07:08:10 UTC To: aur-general@lists.archlinux.org Subject: Non English package details Hi, Is there any rules/policy about packages with non English details in AUR? Recently I came across many packages that have non English descriptions and I can't understand what the packages does or provide, and I got curious about the policy regarding this issue. Cheers, Ramadan Ali (alicavus) This message was signed with my PGP key. If you want to encrypt your messages to me, its corresponding public key is uploaded to the MIT and Ubuntu keyservers. If you have trouble using these, I will provide my public key on request.
Greetings, Maybe as a starter, we can allow user contributions for package descriptions. I do not think it would be easy to change anything else without modifying how other tooling works. with description, only package searching tools (for eg. pacman) would have to accomodate both utf8 and non utf8 characters (I am not sure if it already this, but my guess is that it currently would not). Like we can currently submit request, there would be just one request added for translations. (Unrelated, but it is my first time trying to reply in mailing list, so please forgive me if I have messed this up somehow).
On Fri, Sep 05, 2025 at 07:37:46AM +0000, Adam Tazul wrote:
According to [0] and [1], less than two billion people speak English. According to [2], we already have more than 8.2 billion people on Earth. Granted, less than 70% of these actually have access to the internet [3], and only 3.93% of those on a desktop/laptop are using some form of Linux[4], but I think it's a question worth asking regardless.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-speaking_world [1]: https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/how-many-people-speak-english-and-where-i... [2]: https://www.worldometers.info [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users [4]: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
It's worth noting that from statistics compiled as a percentage of the global population it makes sense to focus on English since, when combining its use as a first and additional language about 25% of the world population speaks it.[0] Furthermore, I'd be very surprised if the percentage of Linux users specifically who know English were not *much* higher, as it is practically the default language used in tech spaces. Compare this to Spanish which only has about “600 million speakers total, including second-language speakers.”[1] If your objective is to write in a language which can be read by as large and diverse a demography as possible, English is evidently the best match. This is not, of course, to discourage work from being done to translate pages into other languages or add other such multilingual support. I simply thought it was worth putting into perspective that this isn't a major issue where perhaps billions of people are being excluded by not having pages in languages other than English. It'd be a nice addition, though. The question, however, would be what policy is established regarding language use. Particularly whether it should be allowed for there to be pages and (more importantly to the subject of this thread) AUR packages that do *not* have an English translation. The problem I would propose in this regard being that of moderation: the ArchLinux project would then require dedicated moderators for the AUR who are fluent in these languages to be able to properly moderate them. Another option is for the ArchLinux team to add a list of “supported languages.” Regards, Nicolás Ortega [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_populati... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language -- Nicolás Ortega Froysa https://themusicinnoise.net/ Public PGP Key: https://themusicinnoise.net/nicolas@ortegas.org_pub.asc
On 9/5/25 2:37 AM, Adam Tazul wrote:
According to [0] and [1], less than two billion people speak English. According to [2], we already have more than 8.2 billion people on Earth. Granted, less than 70% of these actually have access to the internet [3], and only 3.93% of those on a desktop/laptop are using some form of Linux[4], but I think it's a question worth asking regardless.
There is a reason all Air-Traffic Control in every country around the world must use English. There must be one common language to prevent planes from crashing into each other. The same applies to software security. The people responsible for validating packages are not nefarious, must be able to understand the source and purpose. I'm all for making things available in all languages, but the premise in the post above misses the salient point. What percent of those charged with ensuring packages don't pose security concerns speak English (as at least one language they speak)? There has to be a clear separation between (1) making information available in other languages, a good thing, and (2) compromising security by having packages slip through that no one understands, a very, very bad thing. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
Hello, as far as I know, there is no strict rule that says that a package in the AUR must follow a specific language, on the other hand, regarding the language in general (not just packages in the AUR), English is obviously the language that should be used primarily, however, in my opinion, all languages should be taken into account, because although the technological world focuses on English, many people (like me who am a native Spanish speaker) feel more comfortable reading something we already know, still, this is a great effort, since Arch being a rolling release, pages in English (like the wiki for example) are constantly updated and translations in other languages are left behind with obsolete information, and although many browsers have integrated translation functions, they do not really know what to translate, because sometimes they break content or commands that are in English. El vie, 5 de sept de 2025, 2:29 p.m., David C Rankin <drankinatty@gmail.com> escribió:
On 9/5/25 2:37 AM, Adam Tazul wrote:
According to [0] and [1], less than two billion people speak English. According to [2], we already have more than 8.2 billion people on Earth. Granted, less than 70% of these actually have access to the internet [3], and only 3.93% of those on a desktop/laptop are using some form of Linux[4], but I think it's a question worth asking regardless.
There is a reason all Air-Traffic Control in every country around the world must use English. There must be one common language to prevent planes from crashing into each other.
The same applies to software security. The people responsible for validating packages are not nefarious, must be able to understand the source and purpose.
I'm all for making things available in all languages, but the premise in the post above misses the salient point. What percent of those charged with ensuring packages don't pose security concerns speak English (as at least one language they speak)?
There has to be a clear separation between (1) making information available in other languages, a good thing, and (2) compromising security by having packages slip through that no one understands, a very, very bad thing.
-- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On Fri, 2025-09-05 at 14:29 -0500, David C Rankin wrote:
There has to be a clear separation between (1) making information available in other languages, a good thing, and (2) compromising security by having packages slip through that no one understands, a very, very bad thing.
Maybe adding a translation widget to the AUR could help to workaround this issue. My question: "how to add a translate this webpage widget" The answer of a search engine AI: "To add a "Translate this webpage" widget to your website, you will need to generate an HTML code from a third-party widget provider, such as Elfsight or the Google Cloud Translation API for commercial sites, and then paste that code into the desired location on your website's page using your content management system (CMS) or theme editor. For non-commercial sites, you can explore options like the browser extension or third-party solutions." I often find translations from English into my native language, German, more difficult to understand than the English original when it comes to computers. By this I mean that even the German word for something is a new technical term that has to be learned and is initially very difficult to understand even in my native language. Package descriptions often refer to such technical terms, but are otherwise concise and written in almost plain language [1]. It is probably more practical for users to have package descriptions translated by one of the countless translation AIs than to put together a team of multilingual moderators. If necessary, I sometimes use a single app in my native language. Off the top of my head, I can think of situations in which I look up a constellation whose name I might know from German folklore. However, if I were to study astronomy in more depth, I would probably rely on international English in this case as well. To come back to the package descriptions. I don't know how complicated it is to add a “translate this webpage” widget to the AUR. But maybe this would be an acceptable compromise. Much of the content related to computers is only partially translated into other languages, e.g., the man pages. ma(n) d(e) = mad, mad = nuts ;) $ grep mad .bashrc alias mad='LANG=de_DE.utf8 man' IMO man pages are more important than package descriptions. At first glance, English seems to be the best choice for concise package descriptions. Accessibility for use is another issue altogether, however. Just think of small children or illiterate people, for whom pictograms are a good choice. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leichte_Sprache
Dear David It wouldn't really make sense to add a dependency on a third party translation service straight into the aur. As this would mean loading 3rd party translation scripts for all users of the aur, not just the people in need of it. I would rather recommend the people in need of translation, to use the translation included in their browser or to use a translation app on their phone to translate the image of the camera input. Of course this isn't really a perfect solution, a real solution would still be somehow storing actual human translations in the package info itself. I also think that adding pictograms and/or "leichte Sprache" also would be a rabbit hole on it's own, because as of right know, I can't see children or illiterate people installing arch linux all by themselves. Kind regards Julian Houba (aka CraftingDragon007) On September 6, 2025 3:59:00 AM GMT+02:00, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> wrote:
On Fri, 2025-09-05 at 14:29 -0500, David C Rankin wrote:
There has to be a clear separation between (1) making information available in other languages, a good thing, and (2) compromising security by having packages slip through that no one understands, a very, very bad thing.
Maybe adding a translation widget to the AUR could help to workaround this issue.
My question: "how to add a translate this webpage widget"
The answer of a search engine AI: "To add a "Translate this webpage" widget to your website, you will need to generate an HTML code from a third-party widget provider, such as Elfsight or the Google Cloud Translation API for commercial sites, and then paste that code into the desired location on your website's page using your content management system (CMS) or theme editor. For non-commercial sites, you can explore options like the browser extension or third-party solutions."
I often find translations from English into my native language, German, more difficult to understand than the English original when it comes to computers. By this I mean that even the German word for something is a new technical term that has to be learned and is initially very difficult to understand even in my native language. Package descriptions often refer to such technical terms, but are otherwise concise and written in almost plain language [1]. It is probably more practical for users to have package descriptions translated by one of the countless translation AIs than to put together a team of multilingual moderators.
If necessary, I sometimes use a single app in my native language. Off the top of my head, I can think of situations in which I look up a constellation whose name I might know from German folklore. However, if I were to study astronomy in more depth, I would probably rely on international English in this case as well.
To come back to the package descriptions. I don't know how complicated it is to add a “translate this webpage” widget to the AUR. But maybe this would be an acceptable compromise.
Much of the content related to computers is only partially translated into other languages, e.g., the man pages.
ma(n) d(e) = mad, mad = nuts ;)
$ grep mad .bashrc alias mad='LANG=de_DE.utf8 man'
IMO man pages are more important than package descriptions.
At first glance, English seems to be the best choice for concise package descriptions. Accessibility for use is another issue altogether, however. Just think of small children or illiterate people, for whom pictograms are a good choice.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leichte_Sprache
Oh I just recognized I addressed the wrong person by accident. I'm new to the concept of mailing lists and I also wrote this response on my phone, so sorry for the inconvenience Ralf. Kind regards Julian Houba On September 10, 2025 11:20:04 AM GMT+02:00, CraftingDragon007 <info@craftingdragon.ch> wrote:
Dear David It wouldn't really make sense to add a dependency on a third party translation service straight into the aur. As this would mean loading 3rd party translation scripts for all users of the aur, not just the people in need of it. I would rather recommend the people in need of translation, to use the translation included in their browser or to use a translation app on their phone to translate the image of the camera input. Of course this isn't really a perfect solution, a real solution would still be somehow storing actual human translations in the package info itself.
I also think that adding pictograms and/or "leichte Sprache" also would be a rabbit hole on it's own, because as of right know, I can't see children or illiterate people installing arch linux all by themselves.
Kind regards Julian Houba (aka CraftingDragon007)
On September 6, 2025 3:59:00 AM GMT+02:00, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net> wrote:
On Fri, 2025-09-05 at 14:29 -0500, David C Rankin wrote:
There has to be a clear separation between (1) making information available in other languages, a good thing, and (2) compromising security by having packages slip through that no one understands, a very, very bad thing.
Maybe adding a translation widget to the AUR could help to workaround this issue.
My question: "how to add a translate this webpage widget"
The answer of a search engine AI: "To add a "Translate this webpage" widget to your website, you will need to generate an HTML code from a third-party widget provider, such as Elfsight or the Google Cloud Translation API for commercial sites, and then paste that code into the desired location on your website's page using your content management system (CMS) or theme editor. For non-commercial sites, you can explore options like the browser extension or third-party solutions."
I often find translations from English into my native language, German, more difficult to understand than the English original when it comes to computers. By this I mean that even the German word for something is a new technical term that has to be learned and is initially very difficult to understand even in my native language. Package descriptions often refer to such technical terms, but are otherwise concise and written in almost plain language [1]. It is probably more practical for users to have package descriptions translated by one of the countless translation AIs than to put together a team of multilingual moderators.
If necessary, I sometimes use a single app in my native language. Off the top of my head, I can think of situations in which I look up a constellation whose name I might know from German folklore. However, if I were to study astronomy in more depth, I would probably rely on international English in this case as well.
To come back to the package descriptions. I don't know how complicated it is to add a “translate this webpage” widget to the AUR. But maybe this would be an acceptable compromise.
Much of the content related to computers is only partially translated into other languages, e.g., the man pages.
ma(n) d(e) = mad, mad = nuts ;)
$ grep mad .bashrc alias mad='LANG=de_DE.utf8 man'
IMO man pages are more important than package descriptions.
At first glance, English seems to be the best choice for concise package descriptions. Accessibility for use is another issue altogether, however. Just think of small children or illiterate people, for whom pictograms are a good choice.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leichte_Sprache
participants (8)
-
Adam Tazul
-
CraftingDragon007
-
David C Rankin
-
KevinCrrl
-
Nicolás Ortega Froysa
-
Ralf Mardorf
-
Ramadan Ali
-
sga