Remarks on the --optional feature of pactree
Hello, I would like to share my thoughts on how `pactree --optional` works. First thing: shouldn't it omit uninstalled optional dependencies when asked to query the local database (no -s/--sync)? There was a comment by Johannes Löthberg on an earlier attempt to implement --optional:
The problem is that while it works fine for -so, when searching for local packages it should properly exclude optional dependencies that are not installed so they're not printed, rather than being printed as unresolvable.
(source: https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/pacman-contrib/2020-May/000274.html) So for example here: $ pactree -d1 -o python2-urllib3 python2-urllib3 ├─python2 ├─python2-pysocks: SOCKS support [unresolvable] (optional) └─python2-pyopenssl provides python2-pyopenssl: security support (optional) python2-pysocks should be skipped, shouldn't it? Second: default value of DEPTH (optional argument of -o/--optional). I think that infinity (-1) would have been a better choice than 1. In other words, no depth specified should mean no depth limiting. The function of the switch could then be described like so: --optional[=DEPTH] also list optional dependencies, optionally stopping at DEPTH This would be kind of analogous to how 'normal' depth works -- unlimited unless --depth=N is passed. Also, it may sound silly but -o1 feels slightly easier to type if need be / looks less strange than -o-1. But I guess that other people's views on this matter might differ from mine. Plus, it is maybe too late anyway to change the behavior of the feature since a release containing it has been made. I should have raised my concerns earlier.
On Thu Jul 30, 2020 at 7:40 PM EDT, Sebastian Jakubiak wrote:
Hello,
I would like to share my thoughts on how `pactree --optional` works.
First thing: shouldn't it omit uninstalled optional dependencies when asked to query the local database (no -s/--sync)? There was a comment by Johannes Löthberg on an earlier attempt to implement --optional:
The problem is that while it works fine for -so, when searching for local packages it should properly exclude optional dependencies that are not installed so they're not printed, rather than being printed as unresolvable.
(source: https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/pacman-contrib/2020-May/000274.html)
Vaguely recalled there being history to look into, but it slipped my mind.
So for example here:
$ pactree -d1 -o python2-urllib3 python2-urllib3 ├─python2 ├─python2-pysocks: SOCKS support [unresolvable] (optional) └─python2-pyopenssl provides python2-pyopenssl: security support (optional)
python2-pysocks should be skipped, shouldn't it?
Since the installed package already has the optdep information, I think the dependency tree should show these, listed as `[uninstalled]`.
Second: default value of DEPTH (optional argument of -o/--optional). I think that infinity (-1) would have been a better choice than 1. In other words, no depth specified should mean no depth limiting. The function of the switch could then be described like so:
--optional[=DEPTH] also list optional dependencies, optionally stopping at DEPTH
This would be kind of analogous to how 'normal' depth works -- unlimited unless --depth=N is passed. Also, it may sound silly but -o1 feels slightly easier to type if need be / looks less strange than -o-1.
Perhaps this was done to avoid flooding? As an extreme example: ~ > pactree -so-1 diffoscope | wc -l 4089 Albeit confusing, I think I like this behavior. cc Will
But I guess that other people's views on this matter might differ from mine. Plus, it is maybe too late anyway to change the behavior of the feature since a release containing it has been made. I should have raised my concerns earlier.
Not too late IMO. -- Best, Daniel https://danielcapella.com
On 7/30/2020 21:40, Daniel M. Capella wrote:
On Thu Jul 30, 2020 at 7:40 PM EDT, Sebastian Jakubiak wrote:
Hello,
I would like to share my thoughts on how `pactree --optional` works.
First thing: shouldn't it omit uninstalled optional dependencies when asked to query the local database (no -s/--sync)? There was a comment by Johannes Löthberg on an earlier attempt to implement --optional:
The problem is that while it works fine for -so, when searching for local packages it should properly exclude optional dependencies that are not installed so they're not printed, rather than being printed as unresolvable.
(source: https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/pacman-contrib/2020-May/000274.html)
Vaguely recalled there being history to look into, but it slipped my mind.
So for example here:
$ pactree -d1 -o python2-urllib3 python2-urllib3 ├─python2 ├─python2-pysocks: SOCKS support [unresolvable] (optional) └─python2-pyopenssl provides python2-pyopenssl: security support (optional)
python2-pysocks should be skipped, shouldn't it?
Since the installed package already has the optdep information, I think the dependency tree should show these, listed as `[uninstalled]`.
This could certainly be done. Does unresolvable + optional always mean this is true?
Second: default value of DEPTH (optional argument of -o/--optional). I think that infinity (-1) would have been a better choice than 1. In other words, no depth specified should mean no depth limiting. The function of the switch could then be described like so:
--optional[=DEPTH] also list optional dependencies, optionally stopping at DEPTH
This would be kind of analogous to how 'normal' depth works -- unlimited unless --depth=N is passed. Also, it may sound silly but -o1 feels slightly easier to type if need be / looks less strange than -o-1.
Perhaps this was done to avoid flooding? As an extreme example: ~ > pactree -so-1 diffoscope | wc -l 4089
Albeit confusing, I think I like this behavior.
cc Will
This was done for precisely this reason. It's not too hard to revert the behavior to unlimited unless specified but I think the most useful usecase of pactree is to look at the immediate optional dependencies, in which depth 1 by default proves to be quite useful.
But I guess that other people's views on this matter might differ from mine. Plus, it is maybe too late anyway to change the behavior of the feature since a release containing it has been made. I should have raised my concerns earlier.
Not too late IMO.
-- Best, Daniel https://danielcapella.com
-- Will
(Sebastian Jakubiak)
So for example here:
$ pactree -d1 -o python2-urllib3 python2-urllib3 ├─python2 ├─python2-pysocks: SOCKS support [unresolvable] (optional) └─python2-pyopenssl provides python2-pyopenssl: security support (optional)
python2-pysocks should be skipped, shouldn't it?
(Daniel M. Capella)
Since the installed package already has the optdep information, I think the dependency tree should show these, listed as `[uninstalled]`.
I see. Daniel, you suggest that `[unresolvable]` could be replaced with `[uninstalled]`, right? Personally, I am neither in favor of nor against this change. (Will Song)
This could certainly be done. Does unresolvable + optional always mean this is true?
Will, what do you mean by 'this' in 'this is true'? Anyway, I believe that `[uninstalled]` should only be shown for combination 'unresolvable + optional + no -s/--sync'. (Sebastian Jakubiak)
Second: default value of DEPTH (optional argument of -o/--optional). I think that infinity (-1) would have been a better choice than 1. In other words, no depth specified should mean no depth limiting. [...]
(Daniel M. Capella)
Perhaps this was done to avoid flooding? As an extreme example: ~ > pactree -so-1 diffoscope | wc -l 4089
Albeit confusing, I think I like this behavior.
(Will Song)
This was done for precisely this reason. It's not too hard to revert the behavior to unlimited unless specified but I think the most useful usecase of pactree is to look at the immediate optional dependencies, in which depth 1 by default proves to be quite useful.
OK Daniel and Will, I understand your arguments. The current default appears to enjoy support of both of you, so I will not insist on changing it. Regards, Sebastian
participants (3)
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Daniel M. Capella
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incertia
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Sebastian Jakubiak