[arch-dev-public] discussions to death, rules - no innovations?

Simo Leone simo at archlinux.org
Tue Oct 23 19:52:34 EDT 2007

On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 12:33:49AM +0200, Andreas Radke wrote:
> In the last few weeks I've seen so many threads about rules and votings
> we want to give ourself(e.g repo destinctions and repo dividing lines,
> pkg signoff, iso naming, package movements, license issues, cvs
> move,...).
> Wasn't it the big advantage to trust the ArchLinux developers that made
> it fast growing and bleading edge with an acceptable level of
> instability? 
> I still like to decide myself what and when to move packages into the
> repos or when to remove them. Now I have to ask and wait for other devs
> to signoff packages even for minor bugfixes. And that for two
> architectures.
> Didn't we elect Mr. T to become the release manager to let him
> decide what to do?
> Now with all the discussions to death and often no actions following
> - see orphans and cleanup - I loose some of the Arch feeling. All
> these coming rules seem to slow us down more and more without finding
> new skilled manpower. 
> I'm sure we all only want the best for ArchLinux but is that
> the right way? Some rules are always ok. But I have the feeling we are
> on the way to become somewhat of an overcontrolled and superduper
> planned Debian.
> Don't you feel the same?
It's funny you have all that to say, and yet at the same time you wonder
in another thread why frugalware is able to get so much stuff done.

I read you mail as "I like doing whatever the hell I want, when I want,
without asking/telling anyone. And I think that's the best development model".
Well, even if it wasn't what you meant to say, that's certainly what
we've been doing for the past six months, and you said you liked it that

Now about frugalware. While I haven't really read up on it a whole lot,
I've looked a bit. And ironically enough, the EXACT reason they get SO
much done is because they have PROCESS. Yes, that's right, they have a 
solid development model and a process for getting things done, and surprise! 
stuff gets done! So I don't understand how on one hand you envy their
productivity and on the other you refuse to acknowlege that the way
we're currently doing things just doesn't work.

Look, the point I'm trying to get across here is that on one hand, I
agree with you. Yeah, we bikeshed a heck of a lot more than we used to.
But that's not the main issue. The big issue here is that our current
way of doing things is the very reason we are so unproductive, and end
up having these ridiculous discussions!

And THAT is why Aaron is working his ass off to change it! By
introducing small things like signing off packages, he's introducing a
simple but effective process, bit by bit, that will ENABLE us to 
become more productive in the longrun.

And you know, not to seem like an ass or anything (too late huh?), but
if you really think you can do better with your "model", well, stop
whining about it and fork already. I mean after all, if it's your distro
you won't have anyone to complain to about stuff not getting done except

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