[arch-general] [arch-dev-public] [signoff] vc/* -> tty* transition

Baho Utot baho-utot at columbus.rr.com
Sun Jul 19 09:27:40 EDT 2009

On Sat, 2009-07-18 at 23:03 -0400, Matthew wrote:
> Allan McRae wrote:
> > First off, I don't like modifying config files.  But, given I did this 
> > update and still managed to screw my system up when testing it with a 
> > reboot...
> >
> > So it is a question of which I hate more; post install messages or 
> > automatically fixing the file. 
> > A post install message means that I tell all complaining users that 
> > they should have read their pacman output.  But hang on, they are 
> > already told that there is a .pacnew file for what is a very important 
> > config file.  So I can say that anyway. 
> >
> > ...
> >
> > A simple sed of the config file means much, much less complaining 
> > users.  And given the number of complaints I got about libjpeg7 
> > (wheres the thanks now gtk and kde are working?), I am very, very 
> > tempted just to do the sed.
> >
> > Allan
> Could someone please enlighten me why you and Thomas want to please the 
> users that complain? I simply do not understand. You said yourself that 
> you don't like modifying config files, so don't. To hell with the users 
> that don't like it. There are a lot of people that appreciate all the 
> work that went into to the libjpeg and readline rebuilds.You don't hear 
> from the users that appreciate all of your hard work. All you guys 
> see/hear are the users that complain. Many times we take it for granted 
> that things just works! And we are at fault for not speaking up and 
> saying, "Hey thanks for the hard work!"
> I haven't yet heard any users on the Mailing List who are in favor of 
> sedding /etc/inittab. Many of the ML followers probably use testing and 
> reports bugs when ever they encounter anything. Going out on a limb, I 
> would say nearly all users that read the ML want to be involved with 
> arch in one way or the other. I, personally, run testing and I am always 
> amazed at how smoothly things run.
> I was on IRC earlier today and somebody posted a youtube video on how to 
> install arch linux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIVcF5t1kZw
> Now just look at some of the comments on the video. These users are 
> probably on the extreme, but these are some of our users. We also have 
> many users that have just a little bit more knowledge, but they are 
> still left clueless. I'd guess these are the users that complain.
> Point is users, that complain, probably lack the skills needed to run arch.
> If you think that automating file modifications is good and in the best 
> interest of the users that you are targeting then go for it. To hell 
> with me and the others. After all, the distro is your work. If that is 
> the path chosen, it is sad to see something so great dissolve away. In 
> that case thank you for the ride and good luck in the future.
> ~pyther

1st off I am just one of those "ignorant users".  Yes I do complain but
I am only complaining so others don't have the same problem I did.  I am
only trying to help.

If I find a problem in a PKGBUILD or when building a package I file a
bug report.  I think packages should build with little or no problems.
If devs or anyone at Arch thinks it is bogus you can simply close it.

If I post something to help with a problem and it is wrong or can be
done better, then some one corrects me then everyone has an opportunity
to learn,  that is how me/us "ignorant users" learn so have a little
patient with us.

I don't see anything dissolving away.

It is just you have a problem with a update and need to solve it.  

I am for solving this problem on its own merits and not "only by the
rules" then doing the proper thing.

Any way you have been warned, that one of your config files may have
been edited.. so respond appropriately.  

Oh see it works both ways.

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