[arch-general] What can be deleted, when not using systemd - was: polkit package upgrade patch

[Fons Adriaensen]

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 01:35:10PM +0200, Heiko Baums wrote:
 
> How many times does it have to be said, that there are bug reports filed
> to upstream which have been ignored by upstream resp. which have been
> closed as fixed by first blaming ALSA for the PA problems, even if ALSA
> supports those cards perfectly out-of-the-box since years, then writing
> an obscure ALSA configuration which cripples those cards to simple
> stereo cards and now, after many discussions like this one, they
> suddenly say that PA is only meant for desktop purposes and not for
> professional purposes?

All correct, and we'd better be happy about that. The problem
is *not* that PA doesn't support multichannel cards - it would
still be completely useless for any serious audio work and we
would still have to disable/bypass/remove it even if it would
support PRO hardware.

The problem is that it becomes more and more difficult to 
install a system without all sorts of (for me and others)
useless components such as PA. The reason is lots of hard
dependencies that should be optional extensions instead.
When L.P. claims e.g. that Gnome wants 'usability' and
'accessibility', therefore it needs and audio stack and
since the best one for desktop use is PA (no discussion)
it pulls in PA, that does make sense. But when it becomes
impossible (using binary packages) to install Gnome without
PA (while accepting the consequences) that just amounts to
*very bad design*. Because technically there is *no reason*
why things should be that way. If Gnome doesn't find the
PA components it needs for certain non-essential funcions,
it should just go on without them.

The same goes for consolekit, polkit and whatever other
kids the family has grown meanwhile. They do not provide
essential functionality, rather they interfere with the
normal way to contoll access etc., so they must remain
optional.

Now udev has been merged with systemd, and one can wonder
why. According to the authors, it is 'because they share
some common code'. A rather weak argument, that would be
true for almost any two subsystems you can imagine.

Udev is perfectly usable and useful on its own, it should
never be merged with something else that should remain
optional. But maybe that's what behind it - in the long
term systemd is supposed not be optional. So what will
be merged in next ? The kits ? Dbus ? Filesystems ?
Networking ? It will end up to be one giant 'system' blob,
take it or leave it, as we know from other platforms, with
no choice at all for the user. 

L.P.'s reply to concerns like this (if systematically 
interrupting a speaker during his presentation can be
called 'replying') is 'what are you whining about, it's
all free, it's all open, submit a patch'. As if something
like systematic bad design and creation of dependencies 
could be mended with a patch.


Ciao,

-- 
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)